Romang67
BitterSwede
Letang won one as a #1 D-man. He didn't play in the 2017 playoffs, and Gonchar was the #1D for the Penguins in 2009.Has a dman who won 3 or more cups as a #1 dman not got in?
Letang won one as a #1 D-man. He didn't play in the 2017 playoffs, and Gonchar was the #1D for the Penguins in 2009.Has a dman who won 3 or more cups as a #1 dman not got in?
What is meant by the list of players you came up with under the headings "when he started" "during his peak" and "now" - your idea is that you should have about 12 per decade and that's 24 for those 2 decades. Are you suggesting you'd take everyone from those lists before Letang? If so, I definitely disagree with you on several of the names...but if not, I guess I don't understand the lists.I love how people are saying he won 3 cups.
He didn't play a single game in the playoffs, and is only granted a cup as he barely passed the 40 regular season games played threshold in 2017.
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I don't think he gets in.
His career spans nearly 2 decades:
Mathematical average says 12 defensemen get in per decade:
Is Letang one of the top 24 defenders between 2007-2025?
When he started it was:
Lidstrom
Zubov
Niedermayer
Gonchar
Pronger
Blake
Chara
During his peak it was:
Doughty
Karlsson
Subban
Byfuglien
Weber
Suter
Keith
Burns
Giordano
Now:
Josi
Makar
Fox
Hedman
Bouchard
Heiskanen
Hughes
McAvoy
That's 24 Dmen.
Letang is in a mix of:
Pietrangelo, Markov, Campbell, Boyle, Carlsson, Dahlin, Rafalski, Timonen, Schneider, Seabrook, McDonaugh, Hamilton, Ekholm, Jones, OEL, Schneider.
I think Pietrangelo, Rafalski, Markov, and Carlsson are good comparables for Letang. 1 or 2 of them might squeeze in at some point, but I think Pies is probably the best bet. The newer guys might fall off a cliff.
Heck, maybe Evan Bouchard is the best comparable for Letang, given the team composition.
When he started it was:
Lidstrom
Zubov
Niedermayer
Gonchar
Pronger
Blake
Chara
Now:
Josi
Makar
Fox
Hedman
Bouchard
Heiskanen
Hughes
McAvoy
Super weird comment to make seeing as he didn't play a single playoff game for one of these 3 cups....at least MAF played playoff games in each of those 3 cups.Letang obviously has the cups on his direct peers (and unlike MAF are three "real" cups in my eyes ...)
Letang won one cup as a #1 DmanHas a dman who won 3 or more cups as a #1 dman not got in?
During his peak it was:
Doughty
Karlsson
Subban
Byfuglien
Weber
Suter
Keith
Burns
Giordano
The only true rovers in the last two decades are Mike Green, Burns, and Josi. Saying Letang was such just outs yourself as not knowing what you're talking about.The style that Pitt has played ever since Michel Therrien was fired has been an inherently offense heavy system. Letang has thrived in that environment. He’s been allowed to be a rover for essentially his entire career and his offensive instincts have earned him some great offensive numbers.
That being said, guys like Tomas Kaberle also put up amazing stats (albeit for a far shorter timeframe) putting up huge offensive numbers form the D position just because they were never asked to commit to D, nor did they have the defensive talent to do so. On the one hand, I feel like Letang is a HHOF because he played the position he was asked to play as best as one really could. On the other hand, I’m not sure I’ve seen a top defenseman get burned more times than Kris Letang has in his career defending a rush the other way.
My bad I read HRef wrong lol ... only makes my point stronger thoughSuper weird comment to make seeing as he didn't play a single playoff game for one of these 3 cups....at least MAF played playoff games in each of those 3 cups.
Letang is an accumulator rather than a high-peak guy. There are a whole lot more defenseman than that list who had a much higher peak than him, even if you define a "peak" as a two or three season span instead of one. What makes Letang impressive is that he's been able to maintain a consistent level of 5th to 15th best defenseman in the league for almost 20 years.Four defensemen better.
But that's where you start getting more of a HOF argument. Longevity is a great argument for HOF rather than peaking very high but not lasting very long.Letang is an accumulator rather than a high-peak guy. There are a whole lot more defenseman than that list who had a much higher peak than him, even if you define a "peak" as a two or three season span instead of one. What makes Letang impressive is that he's been able to maintain a consistent level of 5th to 15th best defenseman in the league for almost 20 years.
The only true rovers in the last two decades are Mike Green, Burns, and Josi. Saying Letang was such just outs yourself as not knowing what you're talking about.
The Penguins have played several styles since Therrien, they are not all offense heavy. You'd only have to look as far back as last year to see that.
He wouldnt be in my HOF but its pretty clear the voters are gonna put in Crosby/Malkin/Letang/MAF from the Crosby era Pens
To reiterate: 5th in ice time per game among D-men on the Penguins for the 2009 cup, and missed the entire 2017 cup run with an injury.Yes, he's arguably the most underrated dman of this generation. He was a key piece of all of the Pens cups with that core.
Yeah don’t know how you could seriously say that when he literally didn’t play one year and the first being before he was even established but go offYes, he's arguably the most underrated dman of this generation. He was a key piece of all of the Pens cups with that core.
Pretty much nailed it.What is meant by the list of players you came up with under the headings "when he started" "during his peak" and "now" - your idea is that you should have about 12 per decade and that's 24 for those 2 decades. Are you suggesting you'd take everyone from those lists before Letang? If so, I definitely disagree with you on several of the names...but if not, I guess I don't understand the lists.
With MAF I think it's impossible to keep that resume out of the HOF. Not to get into that debate and I agree with a lot of his detractors in a lot of different areas, however, I simply see no way whatsoever that someone with that resume would be kept out.Geez, I love MAF, but his potential induction is even more debatable than Letang’s.
Edit: a closer studying of MAF’s stats actually make it a little more plausible
Yes, he's arguably the most underrated dman of this generation. He was a key piece of all of the Pens cups with that core.