KINGS17
Smartest in the Room
- Apr 6, 2006
- 32,582
- 11,767
Sounds to me like we need to find Dom and
Private Pyle, you are definitely born again hard! Hell, I may even allow you to serve as a rifleman in my beloved Corps.
Sounds to me like we need to find Dom and
So because the team sucks Drew should sick too. I'm ok with that if he only cashes the same amount of check as the amount of effort he gives
Define "quality". In my mind guys like O'Donnell, Handzus, and Modry were some of the quality vets the Kings had during the last rebuilding period.
So, instead of taking the next 20 years to replace Doughty, it will only take 16 years because the Kings gave him an 8-year deal. Mind you Doughty likely won't do jack for making the team a winner in his last 2-4 years of his deal, but at least his spot on the roster didn't have to be replaced.
Well, Clifford was a guy you wouldn't trade if you were going to follow this model.I agree, those were good dudes. Who would those guys' comparables be in the current NHL? I guess Modry = Maatta, but you're hard pressed to find good pro character vets to insulate with. Hell we weren't able to replace Stoll, Mitchell, Regehr, never mind JDub.
But besides, do you truly think DL wouldn't have rather had an early 30s Kopitar and Doughty instead of Handzus and O'D?
Well, Clifford was a guy you wouldn't trade if you were going to follow this model.
If you are looking for older players you could get on shorter term contracts the UFA market offered guys like Cody Eakin, Brian Boyle, Andy Greene, Wayne Simmonds, Ron Hainsey, Michael Frolik, and Andrej Sekera. All of these guys seem to be solid teammates who give a good effort. You certainly wouldn't need all of them. Two or three would suffice.
I think if Dean was coming into the current situation he wouldn't mind having Kopitar, but not at this price for this term. I think Dean would have Demitra'ed Doughty. We'll never know.
NO argument here--other than splitting hairs over the players really, and I'm not sure we'd be at the cap floor
But also different contract era too so I think it's apples to oranges anyway, I hadn't really thought that part thru
Still, personally, I appreciate Kopitar and DOughty much more for slotting reasons. I'm not sure Matt Roy develops like he did if he's playing Drew's role and I'm not sure Vilardi breaks in the same way with no Kopitar, and we'll see that a bit more in coming years with Byfield et. al. (or imagine how much Bjornfot would have gotten rolled). I think when I refer to the Edmonton model it's that a lot of those guys got drafted and immediately it was like "welp you're the guy, go play against Kopitar and Doughty now" and you can see how that stunted even now-good players like RNH.
Again, is "not debilitating" the new standard for Kopitar and Doughty's contracts?Only three years left on Kopitar's contract after this season, and six years for Doughty. These contracts aren't debilitating the team right now, and it's hard to say if it will in the future. By the time all the top prospects are ready for big contracts, Kopitar's deal will already be expired and Doughty's contract length will be cut in half.
How would losing either help at this point? Please explain.
We are under the cap, they are not blocking any players from a development standpoint and they provide good experience to lead the kids. People talk about Doughty being a bad example but Yanetti recently talked about his intangibles being high... so I don’t buy that argument and never did.
Losing Doughty and/or Kopitar does nothing to help us we need quality veterans to nurture to transition to the new generation and will be relevant once we start competing again.
It’s bad business to pay a player top 10 money and get results outside the top 50 in the league. It sends the message that ice time isn’t being earned, it’s being handed out. Kopitar and Doughty didn’t earn their paychecks from 2015 to 2016. And they haven’t done it the past two years either.
I’m a realist so I don’t expect them to not have been resigned or be traded (although I hold out hope for Doughty). But keeping them AND Brown, Quick and Carter to the ends of their deals puts the team at a disadvantage when it comes to rebuilding.
How likely is it that any of the following things happen in the next 5 years?
Kopitar contends for a Selke
Doughty contends for a Norris
Brown throws a big hit
Carter scores a goal from outside the blue paint
Quick wins a shootout
Probably not likely for more than one or two to happen. Which sucks, because all these guys are cashing the big checks, but will be either flogged out there because the kids aren’t good enough or they take reduced roles gladly. I know a lot of people are expecting the second scenario, but based on how many coaches these guys have churned through the past few years, it’s not like they have a track record of leadership.
A lot of fans expect these guys to be leaders and groom the kids. What evidence is there that they are able to do that? Just because Willie Mitchell and Scuderi helped Doughty, that means he is now some savvy vet? He’s too busy running his mouth at that fool Tkachuk and making it about himself. Kopitar is a great player, but you think he’s getting in the face of some rookie like Matt Greene? Brown and Carter are probably marking paychecks remaining off a calendar on the fridge in the training room.
Too many fans are wearing purple tinted glasses and putting all their chips on hope plays. It is smarter to maintain some skepticism, but by all means drink the koolaid if it makes you happier.
I think Kopitar's contract is fine for what it is. Still our best scorer although I know a lot of non-Kings fans wouldn't pick him to be better than other 1Cs in the league making around the same or more than him. If he isn't on this team right now, we will be in much horrible shape. I guess there's an argument of trading him before his new deal kicked in on 2016-2017, but we were still doing "ok" in 2015-2016 that we would be morons for trading him and that we would be morons for not resigning him. Is 10M a year too much to offer at the time? Well, considering that Kane/Toews both got $10.5M around the same period, and Kopitar can be feasibly be compared to them at the time, maybe $10M seemed fine in Lombardi's eyes. Also, Kopitar hasn't fallen off yet in terms of the things he's great for, but can he maintain that for four more years left on his contract? Hopefully, but doubtful.
Doughty's contract. Yeah...., I'm more doubtful that this contract would be above expected value for us as an organization, in comparison to his previous deal, but it's not the worst contract in the league. It won't hinder us from making solid moves if needed. I wouldn't say that at the start of the 2019 season, but I can comfortably say that now. Still could be a bad contract and part of me thinks that if Doughty had to go UFA at the time, then it could be a blessing. Everyone here would be up in flames about it. I don't know.
It’s bad business to pay a player top 10 money and get results outside the top 50 in the league. It sends the message that ice time isn’t being earned, it’s being handed out. Kopitar and Doughty didn’t earn their paychecks from 2015 to 2016. And they haven’t done it the past two years either.
I’m a realist so I don’t expect them to not have been resigned or be traded (although I hold out hope for Doughty). But keeping them AND Brown, Quick and Carter to the ends of their deals puts the team at a disadvantage when it comes to rebuilding.
How likely is it that any of the following things happen in the next 5 years?
Kopitar contends for a Selke
Doughty contends for a Norris
Brown throws a big hit
Carter scores a goal from outside the blue paint
Quick wins a shootout
Probably not likely for more than one or two to happen. Which sucks, because all these guys are cashing the big checks, but will be either flogged out there because the kids aren’t good enough or they take reduced roles gladly. I know a lot of people are expecting the second scenario, but based on how many coaches these guys have churned through the past few years, it’s not like they have a track record of leadership.
A lot of fans expect these guys to be leaders and groom the kids. What evidence is there that they are able to do that? Just because Willie Mitchell and Scuderi helped Doughty, that means he is now some savvy vet? He’s too busy running his mouth at that fool Tkachuk and making it about himself. Kopitar is a great player, but you think he’s getting in the face of some rookie like Matt Greene? Brown and Carter are probably marking paychecks remaining off a calendar on the fridge in the training room.
Too many fans are wearing purple tinted glasses and putting all their chips on hope plays. It is smarter to maintain some skepticism, but by all means drink the koolaid if it makes you happier.
Ancient history. This isn't 2016 anymore.Doughty was in the NHL All star team of the decade. Top 2 defencemen over a 10 year period. You could wait another 100 years and the Kings may not have another defenceman to do that.
Once you get one of those you NEVER EVER:
A) Trade them
B) Not pay them
Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool. Regardless of how his career pans out from here you sign him to that contract 10/10 times
Ancient history. This isn't 2016 anymore.
No, it was the summer of 2018. Still after 2016, and the handwriting as far as the team was going was on the wall.He wasn't signed in November 2020.
what's the motivation. for Kopitar, Brown, Carter , Doughty and Quick THIS season other than capturing a paycheck?
what's the motivation. for Kopitar, Brown, Carter , Doughty and Quick THIS season other than capturing a paycheck?
what's the motivation. for Kopitar, Brown, Carter , Doughty and Quick THIS season other than capturing a paycheck?