Does Crosby’s point-per-game streak end this season?

Saku11

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Jan 25, 2010
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I am a Pens fan who watched every minute of every game and I say it was Letang's.

That being said, any of Crosby, Letang, Murray or Kessel would have been more than fine.
Yeah you say Letang i think most Pens fans say Crosby. I vividly remember how satisfied Penguins fans were of his game throughout the playoffs. No Penguins fan was shocked when he won it and that was not because of who he was it was the quality of his play. Sid re-defined himself as a leader and a captain in those playoffs and even the Malkin fans aknowledged his game. 90% of Penguins fans had no problem of him winning it. Even the Russian fans were giving him props and thats a tall task
 

TheStatican

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Mar 14, 2012
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All depends on team strength. The Penguins have just gone 9-3-1 in their last thirteen games, which means the top guys did well. Prior to the current "streak", they were 7-12-4, and Sid had 21 points in 23 games.
The Pens had a very difficult stretch to start the season and did about as well as you'd expect for a middle of the pack team. Their first 11 games they had to play Toronto, Carolina, Winnipeg, Edmonton and Minnesota, 5 of the 9 best teams in the leauge AND go on a West coast trip, overall 7 of 11 on the road. Is there any wonder they went 3-7-1 through that stretch? No.

Crosby already ramped back up to his normal 90-ish point pace over the next 13 games (14 in 13) after the tough start(7 in 10) before the recent hot streak(18 in 13).
 
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daver

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2017 the penguins were getting caved in often in terms of possession. That would not have happened if Letang was there. Crosby fully deserved the 2017 CS, no argument from me there. Malkin had a case but Crosby was stronger in the finals so it was the correct choice.

No argument that the Pens would have likely been better with Letang in 2017; that doesn't mean he was more worthy in 2016. By that logic, there isn't a chance the Pens win in 2017 without Crosby therefore he was more deserving in 2016.
 

Luigi Lemieux

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No argument that the Pens would have likely been better with Letang in 2017; that doesn't mean he was more worthy in 2016. By that logic, there isn't a chance the Pens win in 2017 without Crosby therefore he was more deserving in 2016.
It's not the main argument for Letang in 2016, his performance speaks for itself. I shouldn't have phrased it like that initially. More of an aside at how different the team looked and played without him the next year.

At the end of the day I don't take too much issue with Crosby winning the CS, any of the top 4 had a case. But imo Letang was the guy stirring the drink in 2016.
 
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SEALBound

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Crosby's body of work is exemplary and i nearly always defend him but the only place i agree with the detractors is the 2016 conn smythe. I'd personally have him 4th on the conn smythe list that year. As great as he played, he was very much a cog on the absolute machine that was the 2016 penguins.

I think Letang should have won it, that was him at his absolute peak. He was absolutely dominating games with his skating and puck possession. Missing him is the biggest reason the 2017 team had such a struggle to win.

After that I'd probably have Matt Murray then Kessel. Murray was 15-6, 2.08 GAA and .923 sv%. And Kessel of course that lead the playoffs in scoring.
2016 was close. It could have gone to Murray, Kessel, or Sid. But there's two things that I think were factored in that doesn't get talked about enough. First, Sid's leadership. Seems cliche but I do think this was the year where plenty of people can point and say "Sid led the troops." We've all recently seen the clip when Kunitz makes the worst pass of a decade. That counts for a lot. Second, with the emergence of HBK and Malkin's line needing tweaking, Sid's like was heavily relied upon to the be the matchup line for other team's top lines. So he had the brunt of the tough defensive assignments the entire playoffs. With that, it means Kessel and the red hot HBK line were regularly going against team's 3rd lines. So while Kessel was a premium asset, he also faced less stiff competition.
 

daver

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CS voting in 2016

1. Sidney Crosby (63)
2. Phil Kessel (60)
3. Kris Letang (18)

Not a huge amount of love for Letang. Crosby and Kessel dominated the #1 and #2 votes.

For the tinhat crowd, that many voters had Crosby as their #2 throws cold water on the "the media wanted to give it to Crosby" thoery.
 
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Empoleon8771

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It's amazing that people still complain about Crosby's Conn Smythe from 2016 when it's nearly been a decade since he won it.

That event was closer to Obama winning the 2008 election than today. Good lord, move on people. We're not that far off from that Conn Smythe being closer to Crosby's debut than today, either.
 
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Hockey Outsider

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If we look at the game-by-game three stars data from the Pens' 2016 playoff run, Crosby was the leader. He had the most 1st star selections, the most total selections, and (if you use a 3-2-1 weighting) he had the most total points:

Player1st2nd3rdTotal"Points"
Sidney Crosby
3​
1​
3​
7​
14​
Matt Murray
2​
2​
1​
5​
11​
Phil Kessel
1​
3​
1​
5​
10​
Evgeni Malkin
1​
3​
4​
6​
Matt Cullen
1​
1​
1​
3​
6​
Patric Hornqvist
2​
1​
3​
7​
Nick Bonino
2​
1​
3​
8​
Kris Letang
2​
1​
3​
5​
Conor Sheary
1​
1​
2​
5​
Bryan Rust
2​
2​
6​
Carl Hagelin
2​
2​
4​
Chris Kunitz
1​
1​
1​
Jeff Zatkoff
1​
1​
2​
Eric Fehr
1​
1​
2​

Data has been taken from pnep's spreadsheet - link

Given that the writers who watched the 2016 playoffs unfold ranked Crosby first, looking at the game by game results, it's tough to argue that there was a conspiracy to give him the trophy. (Unless someone is suggesting that multiple writers in five different cities are part of the conspiracy?)

(EDIT - I also took a look to see if Crosby got more three star selections in home games, as it can be argued that Pittsburgh writers would be biased to choose him. He was named one of three stars in 4 road games vs 3 home games, which isn't what you'd expect, if Pittsburgh writers were making a concerted effort to give Crosby undue recognition. In the three home games where Crobsy was named one of the three three stars, all of them look legit - there's a 3 point night, a 2 point night, and an OT goal).

(For what it's worth, even though he didn't do great in the three star voting, I probably would have voted for Letang. He played the best hockey of his career that spring. In any case, there was a clear top four, and any of Crosby, Letang, Kessel and Murray could have validly taken the Conn Smythe).
 
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blueandgoldguy

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I'm a Capitals fan and you think I didn't even bother to watch the Pens play the Caps in the playoffs?

Sidney Crosby was a complete passenger and recorded a paltry 2 secondary assists in 6 games while being a defensive liability.
Th Conn Smythe Trophy is about the player's play through the entire playoffs, with particular preference given to the Stanley Cup finals. It isn't based on one playoff round.
 

dr robbie

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Feb 21, 2012
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CS voting in 2016

1. Sidney Crosby (63)
2. Phil Kessel (60)
3. Kris Letang (18)

Not a huge amount of love for Letang. Crosby and Kessel dominated the #1 and #2 votes.

For the tinhat crowd, that many voters had Crosby as their #2 throws cold water on the "the media wanted to give it to Crosby" thoery.

I remember thinking it was between Crosby and Kessel. I was personally leaning Kessel, but was happy that Crosby won it.

Does anyone else remember a rumor that one of the voters had Kessel written as first, but had a note written down that if Crosby got a point in the third that Crosby would be their top pick. Then Crosby got an assist on the EN goal with like a min left in the game which sealed that vote and ultimately won him the Conn Smythe? Or something along those lines. Obviously, could be misremembering or misheard this, but wonder if there was any validity to this.
 

Barrie22

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Aug 11, 2009
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It's not the main argument for Letang in 2016, his performance speaks for itself. I shouldn't have phrased it like that initially. More of an aside at how different the team looked and played without him the next year.

At the end of the day I don't take too much issue with Crosby winning the CS, any of the top 4 had a case. But imo Letang was the guy stirring the drink in 2016.
He was also 6th in playoff scoring on his own team. Not really stirring the pot by being so far back as the leading point producer on the team.
 

Pancakes

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I'm a Capitals fan and you think I didn't even bother to watch the Pens play the Caps in the playoffs?

Sidney Crosby was a complete passenger and recorded a paltry 2 secondary assists in 6 games while being a defensive liability.
He said you didn't watch the finals.

If we look at the game-by-game three stars data from the Pens' 2016 playoff run, Crosby was the leader. He had the most 1st star selections, the most total selections, and (if you use a 3-2-1 weighting) he had the most total points:

Player1st2nd3rdTotal"Points"
Sidney Crosby
3​
1​
3​
7​
14​
Matt Murray
2​
2​
1​
5​
11​
Phil Kessel
1​
3​
1​
5​
10​
Evgeni Malkin
1​
3​
4​
6​
Matt Cullen
1​
1​
1​
3​
6​
Patric Hornqvist
2​
1​
3​
7​
Nick Bonino
2​
1​
3​
8​
Kris Letang
2​
1​
3​
5​
Conor Sheary
1​
1​
2​
5​
Bryan Rust
2​
2​
6​
Carl Hagelin
2​
2​
4​
Chris Kunitz
1​
1​
1​
Jeff Zatkoff
1​
1​
2​
Eric Fehr
1​
1​
2​

Data has been taken from pnep's spreadsheet - link

Given that the writers who watched the 2016 playoffs unfold ranked Crosby first, looking at the game by game results, it's tough to argue that there was a conspiracy to give him the trophy. (Unless someone is suggesting that multiple writers in five different cities are part of the conspiracy?)

(EDIT - I also took a look to see if Crosby got more three star selections in home games, as it can be argued that Pittsburgh writers would be biased to choose him. He was named one of three stars in 4 road games vs 3 home games, which isn't what you'd expect, if Pittsburgh writers were making a concerted effort to give Crosby undue recognition. In the three home games where Crobsy was named one of the three three stars, all of them look legit - there's a 3 point night, a 2 point night, and an OT goal).

(For what it's worth, even though he didn't do great in the three star voting, I probably would have voted for Letang. He played the best hockey of his career that spring. In any case, there was a clear top four, and any of Crosby, Letang, Kessel and Murray could have validly taken the Conn Smythe).
Letang would have been my pick if I had to pick someone other than Sid

It's amazing that people still complain about Crosby's Conn Smythe from 2016 when it's nearly been a decade since he won it.

That event was closer to Obama winning the 2008 election than today. Good lord, move on people. We're not that far off from that Conn Smythe being closer to Crosby's debut than today, either.
"People".

It's mostly one guy who has been jealous of Sid being better than Ovechkin for like a decade now lol
 
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rielledup

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Sep 17, 2015
643
616
Above a ppg and it looks like he's had some bad puck luck which will probably even out in the second half.
 

DearDiary

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T-3rd in 5on5 points, 4th including last season.
 

FDBluth

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13 in history. Still marvel at Sakic hitting 100 at age 37. Age 38 is where it becomes a graveyard, with Oates being the only player above a ppg.


I just turned 38 and I can see why.
 

daver

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T-3rd in 5on5 points, 4th including last season.

He is still a Top 5 player at ES. It's too bad the PP points aren't there anymore (which is partially on him). He has the best all around game out of most, if not all, of the players ahead of him in the scoring race and you can easily still place him as a Top 10 player.

He would have gotten 5th in Hart voting last year if the Pens made the playoffs after his incredible finish.
 
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HFpapi

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Mar 6, 2010
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At this point, I can comfortably say that more people support the flat earth theory than your takes in this thread. And quite frankly, they can conjure up better arguments. I am more inclined to sit across from them and have them tell me about ice walls of Antarctica than listen to why 37 points in 22 games is not over 1.0 ppg or whatever mental gymnastics you are using to say Sid didn't deserve the CS in either Cup year.
Hey man, you don't know for sure that prime, 25 year old Sidney Crosby (who has never been below 1.0 ppg in his life) wasn't going to score less than 45 points in 60 games if he had to play the full year.
 

Luigi Lemieux

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Sep 26, 2003
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He is still a Top 5 player at ES. It's too bad the PP points aren't there anymore (which is partially on him). He has the best all around game out of most, if not all, of the players ahead of him in the scoring race and you can easily still place him as a Top 10 player.

He would have gotten 5th in Hart voting last year if the Pens made the playoffs after his incredible finish.
It's still a mystery to me why this pens team struggles so much on the pp the last few years when pp effectiveness is sky high across the league. With even a mediocre pp Crosby is a 100+ point guy in 22-23, 23-24, and even now.
 

The Panther

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Mar 25, 2014
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Th Conn Smythe Trophy is about the player's play through the entire playoffs, with particular preference given to the Stanley Cup finals. It isn't based on one playoff round.
That's true, but typically in playoff runs when no one individual player stands out, it is in the Finals where the difference in voting occurs. The Final is also the biggest stage and when every writer is actually watching.

So, Crosby's having a 'meh' Finals in 2016 and winning the Conn Smythe was historically unusual. And, as the voting record shows, it was one of the 'weakest' Smythe wins in history.

(This has nothing to do with Sid himself, but my guess is that if all voters knew Crosby was going to perform even better in 2017 and that the Pens would win the Cup again, he wouldn't have won the 2016 Conn Smythe. There was definitely a feeling of "we have to give one to Sid now that we finally have another chance". Darren Dreger actually said he was voting for Crosby for the Conn Smythe... before the Finals even started.)
 

Nathaniel Skywalker

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Oct 18, 2013
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I remember thinking it was between Crosby and Kessel. I was personally leaning Kessel, but was happy that Crosby won it.

Does anyone else remember a rumor that one of the voters had Kessel written as first, but had a note written down that if Crosby got a point in the third that Crosby would be their top pick. Then Crosby got an assist on the EN goal with like a min left in the game which sealed that vote and ultimately won him the Conn Smythe? Or something along those lines. Obviously, could be misremembering or misheard this, but wonder if there was any validity to this.
As soon as I seen Crosby block a point shot and spring a breakaway for the empty net. I new it was his
 

Jacob

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Feb 27, 2002
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2016 was close. It could have gone to Murray, Kessel, or Sid. But there's two things that I think were factored in that doesn't get talked about enough. First, Sid's leadership. Seems cliche but I do think this was the year where plenty of people can point and say "Sid led the troops." We've all recently seen the clip when Kunitz makes the worst pass of a decade. That counts for a lot. Second, with the emergence of HBK and Malkin's line needing tweaking, Sid's like was heavily relied upon to the be the matchup line for other team's top lines. So he had the brunt of the tough defensive assignments the entire playoffs. With that, it means Kessel and the red hot HBK line were regularly going against team's 3rd lines. So while Kessel was a premium asset, he also faced less stiff competition.
Yeah Sid was doing a lot of little things all playoffs long. Like the Kunitz thing, somehow getting under Thornton's skin and getting him off his game. And was that the year he diagrammed the set play off the faceoff for the OT GWer?
 
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PenguinSuitedUp

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If we look at the game-by-game three stars data from the Pens' 2016 playoff run, Crosby was the leader. He had the most 1st star selections, the most total selections, and (if you use a 3-2-1 weighting) he had the most total points:

Player1st2nd3rdTotal"Points"
Sidney Crosby
3​
1​
3​
7​
14​
Matt Murray
2​
2​
1​
5​
11​
Phil Kessel
1​
3​
1​
5​
10​
Evgeni Malkin
1​
3​
4​
6​
Matt Cullen
1​
1​
1​
3​
6​
Patric Hornqvist
2​
1​
3​
7​
Nick Bonino
2​
1​
3​
8​
Kris Letang
2​
1​
3​
5​
Conor Sheary
1​
1​
2​
5​
Bryan Rust
2​
2​
6​
Carl Hagelin
2​
2​
4​
Chris Kunitz
1​
1​
1​
Jeff Zatkoff
1​
1​
2​
Eric Fehr
1​
1​
2​

Data has been taken from pnep's spreadsheet - link

Given that the writers who watched the 2016 playoffs unfold ranked Crosby first, looking at the game by game results, it's tough to argue that there was a conspiracy to give him the trophy. (Unless someone is suggesting that multiple writers in five different cities are part of the conspiracy?)

(EDIT - I also took a look to see if Crosby got more three star selections in home games, as it can be argued that Pittsburgh writers would be biased to choose him. He was named one of three stars in 4 road games vs 3 home games, which isn't what you'd expect, if Pittsburgh writers were making a concerted effort to give Crosby undue recognition. In the three home games where Crobsy was named one of the three three stars, all of them look legit - there's a 3 point night, a 2 point night, and an OT goal).

(For what it's worth, even though he didn't do great in the three star voting, I probably would have voted for Letang. He played the best hockey of his career that spring. In any case, there was a clear top four, and any of Crosby, Letang, Kessel and Murray could have validly taken the Conn Smythe).
Murray was f***ing awesome in that playoff run.
 

daver

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That's true, but typically in playoff runs when no one individual player stands out, it is in the Finals where the difference in voting occurs. The Final is also the biggest stage and when every writer is actually watching.

So, Crosby's having a 'meh' Finals in 2016 and winning the Conn Smythe was historically unusual. And, as the voting record shows, it was one of the 'weakest' Smythe wins in history.

(This has nothing to do with Sid himself, but my guess is that if all voters knew Crosby was going to perform even better in 2017 and that the Pens would win the Cup again, he wouldn't have won the 2016 Conn Smythe. There was definitely a feeling of "we have to give one to Sid now that we finally have another chance". Darren Dreger actually said he was voting for Crosby for the Conn Smythe... before the Finals even started.)

He was fantastic in Game 1, set up the OT winner in Game 2 to take control of the series, and was great in Game 6. More notably, he was better than Kessel in the SCFs, the other CS favourite going into the SCF

With you being an Oilers fan it's understandable that you don't recognize what winning, defensive hockey looks like. That Crosby's line, consisting of a career 3rd liner and an AHL callup who terrible defensively, was able to shut down the Sharks elite #1 line while eating up the minutes of one of the best defenseman in the league was a major factor in that series.

Murray was f***ing awesome in that playoff run.

The Pens were a machine that year. There weren't too many games where they were outshototing the other team by 25%.

As a rookie, Murray was very impressive but he wasn't close to an obvious CS win.
 
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daver

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Yeah Sid was doing a lot of little things all playoffs long. Like the Kunitz thing, somehow getting under Thornton's skin and getting him off his game. And was that the year he diagrammed the set play off the faceoff for the GWer?

Yes, Crosby upped his game in some key moments during that run including that OT winner and the one against the Bolts.

The 2016 Pens were the polar opposite of the 2022 Oilers where the goal wasn't to max out the offensive production of a GOAT talent but to use their GOAT talent to neutralize the other team's best lines and best d-pairings so Malkin's line and most notably the HBK line could take advantage of better matchups.

It's incredible that so many people want to gloss over the fact the 2016 Pens are arguably the 2nd best Cup winner in the post 2005 lockout era with Crosby being the centrepeice.
 
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