Does anyone actually like DaveArt masks?

[ArGarBarGar]

I'm old enough to be a "stuffy, old timer, traditional hockey type". I remember the hockey establishment nearly having a collective coronary when San Jose unveiled their teal jerseys, which means I also remember the excitement over Brian Hayward's gaping shark mask.

The problem with most of these mask designs here and most of the great ones from the 90s is that, although those great ones were over-the-top, there was an ability to leave well enough alone. John Vanbiesbrouck's Panthers mask was four colors: navy, white, red, and gold. Hayward's shark mask was black, white, and varying shades of teal to create a narrow gradient. Mike Richter's liberty head was white, red, Ranger blue, and a slightly lighter shade of blue for the logo on the chin. Ed Belfour's eagle mask had the eagles on either side, and a lot of single-color red outside of that. Andy Moog's bear head was black, white, gold, and varying red that was limited to the mouth. Brodeur's longtime one was red, black, and white.

And that's the issue that there is with a lot of these on this thread: too many damned colors, too much fine detail that makes them impossible to be spotted and identified from a distance. Almost all of them are overloaded with shadowing, gradients, flares, or other fine details. It makes them absolutely stunning up close, and a muddled mess of nothing from 10 feet away. It's the same problem with the Blackhawks Stadium Series crest: the basic standard one is fine, and didn't need the extra embellishments of looking like it was in chrome.

As a wise man once said, "Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away."

A good summation of how I feel on the subject.

As far as the actual artwork DaveArt does a fantastic job, but in the context of a hockey mask they are a nightmare. I understand that goaltenders have a big say in what their mask looks like, but as the designer DaveArt does have the power to influence a certain aesthetic based on the requests of the goaltender. But he chose a more detailed and convoluted direction in his design style, so that is what we get.

 

[Tarasenko]

If he cut out all the lens flares and actually let empty spaces just be empty rather than filled with countless shadows of other things, I think a lot of the masks he's done would be amazing.

Spot on. Yep.
Too much details is like not enough.

 

[BillDineen]

I like his simpler designs, like the Bishop mask, but most are way too busy looking for my taste.

 

[tucker3434]

His masks remind me of he guy that buys a prime steak, soaks it in dales, then puts 4 kinds of seasoning on it. Many times, simple is better.

 

[PensBandwagonerNo272*]

I prefer the minimalist 90's style of goalie masks. The ones today are too busy with too much detail. They don't look as good from afar.

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

A few more of his good ones:

....countered with the bad:

 

[Johnny Engine]

The majority of what he does is butt-ugly, but I don't really mind the tiny details on the ones that actually have strong designs. Ideally, you want the basic layout to be easy to recognize and draw - Bishop's mask and the Hebert tribute work on that standard, and while you can't make out the small details from far off, it's not a big deal. The ones that have 20 different elements slapped onto different areas of the mask don't accomplish anything, aesthetically.

 

[Mayor Bee]

His masks remind me of he guy that buys a prime steak, soaks it in dales, then puts 4 kinds of seasoning on it. Many times, simple is better.

That's a solid comparison.

 

[Hivemind]

Why do goalie masks need to be easily observed from a distance? I feel like there's a fundamental disagreement about who the target audience of the goalie mask is. From the other thread on goalie gear.

This is where you are wrong.

The goalies are making masks that are very personal to them. When these cage/mask combos first rose to prominence in the late 1980's, the primary artist was a guy called Greg Harrison. He very much operated with that MO. He made very stark, distinct, bold designs that were simple, yet clever and could be enjoyed from a great distance. He made a lot of use of white space and negative space and created several iconic goalie masks.

Greg got pushed out of the game because he refused to license the actual team logos, so he wasn't able to put logos on his masks (which is how he came up with designs like Belfour's Eagle mask or Hayward's shark mouth, or Moog's bear mouth.) He also wouldn't pay to license other logos or characters (think Budaj's Ned Flanders, for example) and as more and more goalies wanted personalized details and teal logos, Harrison got pushed out of the business altogether.

Goalies today - and for a long time now - have no interest in the mask looking cool on television, or from the crowd. It's a very personal piece of their equipment and its a way for them to add personal flare to their mask. They want to have their favourite bands, movies, family members whatever worked into a concept. The masks for them - for the vast majority of them - is something that looks cool in their hands and I can't tell you how many times I've had one of them show me a really cool, little almost hidden detail. It's the very opposite of what you are talking about that delights them.

Dave is giving them what they want, he's not forcing a personal aesthetic upon them. If he did, he'd be out of business. If that's what goalies wanted, they'd be going to Hillier's designer. But Hillier is the exception, not the rule.

People are free to not like Dave's designs, but pretending they are being forced upon the goalies is just ridiculous and screams of people trying to pretend that their opinion is fact.

 

[OneMoreAstronaut]

I have the feeling that up close, the masks (sometimes) look much better. But he crams so much detail and texture and so many effects onto them that if you take so much as a few steps away, it all turns to mush.

 

[Juicy Pop]

What is going on with the design on the left-most view?

The whole thing looks like holiday wrapping paper.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Why do goalie masks need to be easily observed from a distance? I feel like there's a fundamental disagreement about who the target audience of the goalie mask is. From the other thread on goalie gear.

Who is saying they are being forced upon the goalies?

Goalies can have crappy taste, too.

 

[Miri]

I'm old enough to be a "stuffy, old timer, traditional hockey type". I remember the hockey establishment nearly having a collective coronary when San Jose unveiled their teal jerseys, which means I also remember the excitement over Brian Hayward's gaping shark mask.

The problem with most of these mask designs here and most of the great ones from the 90s is that, although those great ones were over-the-top, there was an ability to leave well enough alone. John Vanbiesbrouck's Panthers mask was four colors: navy, white, red, and gold. Hayward's shark mask was black, white, and varying shades of teal to create a narrow gradient. Mike Richter's liberty head was white, red, Ranger blue, and a slightly lighter shade of blue for the logo on the chin. Ed Belfour's eagle mask had the eagles on either side, and a lot of single-color red outside of that. Andy Moog's bear head was black, white, gold, and varying red that was limited to the mouth. Brodeur's longtime one was red, black, and white.

And that's the issue that there is with a lot of these on this thread: too many damned colors, too much fine detail that makes them impossible to be spotted and identified from a distance. Almost all of them are overloaded with shadowing, gradients, flares, or other fine details. It makes them absolutely stunning up close, and a muddled mess of nothing from 10 feet away. It's the same problem with the Blackhawks Stadium Series crest: the basic standard one is fine, and didn't need the extra embellishments of looking like it was in chrome.

As a wise man once said, "Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away."

 

[The Podium]

I hate the glossy finish, the cartoonish script that is littered throughout and how no colour is solid but rather have emblems embedded throughout larger areas. Also, now I hate the fake light reflection thing that Ive never noticed before. However, ill give him credit, a lot of the masks are based on a great plan the execution is just terrible.

 

[Brainiac]

And why is that? It's a piece of personal equipment, the most important thing is that 1) it provides the desired functionality and 2) that the person owning it likes it.

Were I a goalie, I would care about my mask looking good on TV or for the fans at the arena. The mask is your trademark, the one piece of equipement that can set you apart from the other guys.

With these DaveArt masks, the goalies now look all the same to me, with different color schemes. Boring.

 

[Hank Chinaski]

I'm old enough to be a "stuffy, old timer, traditional hockey type". I remember the hockey establishment nearly having a collective coronary when San Jose unveiled their teal jerseys, which means I also remember the excitement over Brian Hayward's gaping shark mask.

The problem with most of these mask designs here and most of the great ones from the 90s is that, although those great ones were over-the-top, there was an ability to leave well enough alone. John Vanbiesbrouck's Panthers mask was four colors: navy, white, red, and gold. Hayward's shark mask was black, white, and varying shades of teal to create a narrow gradient. Mike Richter's liberty head was white, red, Ranger blue, and a slightly lighter shade of blue for the logo on the chin. Ed Belfour's eagle mask had the eagles on either side, and a lot of single-color red outside of that. Andy Moog's bear head was black, white, gold, and varying red that was limited to the mouth. Brodeur's longtime one was red, black, and white.

And that's the issue that there is with a lot of these on this thread: too many damned colors, too much fine detail that makes them impossible to be spotted and identified from a distance. Almost all of them are overloaded with shadowing, gradients, flares, or other fine details. It makes them absolutely stunning up close, and a muddled mess of nothing from 10 feet away. It's the same problem with the Blackhawks Stadium Series crest: the basic standard one is fine, and didn't need the extra embellishments of looking like it was in chrome.

As a wise man once said, "Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away."

I blame Corey Hirsch.

I remember when Hirsch started sporting his Bates Motel mask, it was widely considered one of the coolest masks in the NHL. I thought it was awesome, and it actually made me a huge Corey Hirsch fan at the time.

The colour simplicity that you mention in your post is still present, but I believe this mask also started the bad trend of super fine details and design concepts that have little or nothing to do with the team.

 

[Hivemind]

Who is saying they are being forced upon the goalies?

Goalies can have crappy taste, too.

That "forced upon" aspect was from the thread I quoted. You can follow the quote back for context there.

I bolded the most relevant parts for this thread. Goalies are the intended audience for these masks, not the television viewers or stadium attendees. It's not about being able to see the details from a distance, it's about having a piece of gear that the goaltender likes to wear.

 

[glovesave_35]

That "forced upon" aspect was from the thread I quoted. You can follow the quote back for context there.

I bolded the most relevant parts for this thread. Goalies are the intended audience for these masks, not the television viewers or stadium attendees. It's not about being able to see the details from a distance, it's about having a piece of gear that the goaltender likes to wear.

I think what most people are saying is that, wouldn't it be cool if it was. Feel free to disagree with that. I guess we shouldn't really care what jerseys look like either then. We should be at the mercy of ownership's aesthetic preferences entirely.

OP, I owe you a bit of an apology. Generally, I don't get into goalie gear or goalie masks much at all, but after reading this thread more and seeing a lot of the pictures I think my problem is that I tended to associate every mask in the league with this guy's style. So many of the masks I've seen over the last decade or so have just been incredibly busy and look so bad (IMO) that I never really started caring about them in the first place. Whoever brought up the lens flare is spot on. Aside from that there is usually too much going on but that is the biggest problem.

The Hiller masks I've seen here are pretty cool. Fashion and trends usually come and go so I'm hoping we see a bit of an influx of more simple yet still artistic designs.

 

[Mayor Bee]

I blame Corey Hirsch.

I remember when Hirsch started sporting his Bates Motel mask, it was widely considered one of the coolest masks in the NHL. I thought it was awesome, and it actually made me a huge Corey Hirsch fan at the time.

The colour simplicity that you mention in your post is still present, but I believe this mask also started the bad trend of super fine details and design concepts that have little or nothing to do with the team.

I'd argue that John Vanbiesbrouck's NYR mask was the first of that kind, but it didn't really stick. Hirsch definitely ushered in the newer era of unrelated goalie masks.

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

I'm old enough to be a "stuffy, old timer, traditional hockey type". I remember the hockey establishment nearly having a collective coronary when San Jose unveiled their teal jerseys, which means I also remember the excitement over Brian Hayward's gaping shark mask.

The problem with most of these mask designs here and most of the great ones from the 90s is that, although those great ones were over-the-top, there was an ability to leave well enough alone. John Vanbiesbrouck's Panthers mask was four colors: navy, white, red, and gold. Hayward's shark mask was black, white, and varying shades of teal to create a narrow gradient. Mike Richter's liberty head was white, red, Ranger blue, and a slightly lighter shade of blue for the logo on the chin. Ed Belfour's eagle mask had the eagles on either side, and a lot of single-color red outside of that. Andy Moog's bear head was black, white, gold, and varying red that was limited to the mouth. Brodeur's longtime one was red, black, and white.

And that's the issue that there is with a lot of these on this thread: too many damned colors, too much fine detail that makes them impossible to be spotted and identified from a distance. Almost all of them are overloaded with shadowing, gradients, flares, or other fine details. It makes them absolutely stunning up close, and a muddled mess of nothing from 10 feet away. It's the same problem with the Blackhawks Stadium Series crest: the basic standard one is fine, and didn't need the extra embellishments of looking like it was in chrome.

As a wise man once said, "Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away."

Yeah. DaveArt needs an editor.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

A few more of his good ones:



....countered with the bad:

Had to take out the pics to save the long post...

But I honestly can't tell the good from the bad. It blends into each other. It's how mundane and unoriginal his work has become. I think when he started out, he was different, it was cool.

But the guy literally has not evolved his style outside of using the most useless new fad possible with the glow in the dark stuff.

Unless NHL teams were going to start having random power outages, why glow in the dark? So ridiculous.

It's one thing when these masks are to represent a player and their personality, but with DaveArt, it's as if it's for 1 goalie that is playing for 30 teams.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

They suck most of the time, Sometimes he gets a good one down. I would look elsewhere to get my mask done.

 

[SladeWilson23]

Who is saying they are being forced upon the goalies?

Goalies can have crappy taste, too.

Maybe it's everyone else who has the "crappy" taste.

 

[cptjeff]

So, since we don't own the mask, we shouldn't be able to have an opinion of if we like them or not?

My opinion; they have too much detail which makes them hard to read from 20+ feet away.

He does not use the KISS principle (Keep It Simple Stupid)

Count me as another in this camp, though it's not just him. Most goalie masks today, by most artists, are awful for the same reason. I long for a return of masks like Tom Barrasso's:

I don't care all that much- goalies can order what they want, but I do find it a little sad that good, classic designs are nearly gone from the game.

 

[Juicy Pop]

Ads on jerseys and goalie masks will solve this problem.