Post-Game Talk: Dobby and the Habs defeat the Stars in Dallas

[Andrei79]

There was only one rookie on defense this year .... what happened with the defense is Justin Barron sucked (he was not a rookie he has 120 games of exp) and Savard could not handle top 4 duty anymore not even close. That's what happened. People need to stop with the whole we can't have any rookies next year must resign Dvorak and Armia stupidity. If a kid sucks as a 4th line center it will be easily solvable during the season. And Armia will be replaced by Demidov.

I still think Barron wasn't the only factor, but inexperience as a whole as only Matheson and Savard were experienced defensemen. The group had trouble making reads and it affected the veterans who were trying to compensate too much. It was more apparent with Barron because his confidence is fragile, he's soft and has brain cramps. He suffered from not having an experienced partner. Having Josi is going to help him quite a bit and he might carve out a Petry like career with Nashville. In any case, Evans would be my main priority. I would consider Olivier and/or Armia and we'll need a spot for Kapanen or Beck. In a perfect world, Gallagher is gone this summer along with Dvorak.

Indeed

Armia is playing well right now but he is textbook case of "You need to know when to let go". If our pipeline was dry or he was 25ish years old maybe you re-sign him but that's not the case. Now i'm not gonna be angry if Hughes does re-sign him but i don't think it's necessary.

I find the reason it's hard to let go of Armia is that he brings something very unique that's sought out throughout the league: 6'4", right handed, a monster along the boards with high end puck handling. When he puts it all together he's a handful. If we didn't have him, management would probably be looking for someone like him.

 

[Theosis]

 

[le_sean]

Dallas do not let their kids marinate. Please check your facts. Robertson played 60 AHL games. Wyatt Johnson played 0 AHL games. Stankoven played 47 AHL games. Hintz played 91 AHL games. Heiskanen played 0 AHL games and 67 Liiga games. Lindell played 80 AHL games. Oettinger played 54 AHL games. The only one who cooked is Thomas Harley that's it.

TB do not either. Kucherov played 17 AHL games. Point 9 AHL games. Sergachev 0 AHL games. Cirelli 54 AHL games. Hedman 0 AHL games. Stamkos 0 AHL games. Geekie 0 AHL games. Perbix 14 AHL games. Cernak 79 AHL games. Vasi 37 AHL games. Palat 117 AHL games. Killhorn 54 AHL games. Johnson 137 AHL games. Colton 131 AHL games. Only one who really cooked is Gourde.

Both Engstrom and Kapnen will be 22 with pro experience in Europe. If they ain't ready to play a reduced role in the NHL they never will be. So what's the plan? Let them cook int he AHL until they are 25 and go thru waivers? To know if they can play a role in the NHL you must try them at the NHL level. Next season Engstrom will have 95 games of SHL exp and around 70-80 games of AHL exp. Kapanen will have around 40 games of SHL exp, 124 games of Liiga exp and 12 games of NHL exp.

Also in the past 30 years we did lose young players without trying them after letting them cook in the AHL until they were so overcook it was impossible to digest them. Beauchemin who was a top 4 on a cup winning team we tried him one game. Conroy who was a top 6 center on a team reaching the scf we tried him 13 games. We also traded young players before giving them enough time to develop like Tucker who was traded after one season and a half for nothing and had a long career. He did not need to cook he just needed time to develop at the NHL level.

We also undervalued Sergachev before trying him. We did the same with McDornagh. They did not cook, they did not need they were too good, but we traded them without evaluating them because we did not need kids we needed vets MOAR vets and yes that was such a resounding success both trades. I'm honestly astonished to see pople think this team has arrived and can afford to wait 5 years before trying kids to fill in the obvious holes while icing average vets like Dvorak and Armia. It's crazy. It's 100% f***ing CRAZY. It's like the Houle years never hapened and were erased from memory. I'm totally mind blown can't believe it.

Agreed that European players like Engstrom and Kapanen don’t need to stay in the AHL long at all. They’ve been playing against men since the age of 17/18.

Kapanen proved just this preseason/early NHL season that it was basically a numbers game working against him which is why he was sent back. Engstrom is already Laval’s top defenceman.

 

[vokiel]

View attachment 962661

What? Hot Dogs?

 

[LaP]

Agreed that European players like Engstrom and Kapanen don’t need to stay in the AHL long at all. They’ve been playing against men since the age of 17/18.

Kapanen proved just this preseason/early NHL season that it was basically a numbers game working against him which is why he was sent back. Engstrom is already Laval’s top defenceman.

But even Beck after one more full season in the AHL he'll have more AHL exp than almost all good players developped by TB and Dallas. But apparently for whatever reasons i can't grasp he neeeds to spend 4 more years in the AHL because Dallas and TB LET THEM COOOOOOOOOOK.

Make no sense people should check their facts before posting stupidity it's not Facebook it's HFboards for god sake. The problem in the past was never that we did not let them cook. We did let them cook. They simply were not good enough. The few ones who were (Beauchemin, Conroy, Tucker) we lost them for nothing after letting them cook. Leting a player cook do not make him more skilled.

During the houle years we traded Tucker after cooking one year in the AHL and after cooking on a 4th line for a year and a half and do you know who the f*** the 3rd line center was? It was Marc Bureau (30). Yes i'm not even f***ing joking here. Shit i'm so frustrated right now to see nobody f***ing remember the Houle years i'll have to take a walk to calm down after buying a dog.

 

[LaP]

I still think Barron wasn't the only factor, but inexperience as a whole as only Matheson and Savard were experienced defensemen. The group had trouble making reads and it affected the veterans who were trying to compensate too much. It was more apparent with Barron because his confidence is fragile, he's soft and has brain cramps. He suffered from not having an experienced partner. Having Josi is going to help him quite a bit and he might carve out a Petry like career with Nashville. In any case, Evans would be my main priority. I would consider Olivier and/or Armia and we'll need a spot for Kapanen or Beck. In a perfect world, Gallagher is gone this summer along with Dvorak.

I agree. I think that was the defense to begin the year.

Matheson-Guhle
Hutson-Savard
Xhekaj-Barron

The main problem was Savard was not able to handle the load anymore. That was the main problem imo. Yes Savard has been playing well lately in a reduced role on the 3rd pairing but he was atrocious before his role was reduced. Now why the Hutson - Matheson pairing his working and why did the Matheson - Guhle pairing did not work i'm not 100% sure. Maybe Guhle is simply not good on the right side?

But yeah i agree Barron was not the main problem but we solved it by trading him though. I think too many people assume Carrier was worth nothing. He has only two years left at 3.750 millions. It's not a terrible deal at all for a solid 3rd pairing guy. Maybe Nashville received couple of offers and somehow just liked Barron?

 

[YukonCornelius 5thOA]

Bruh, I'm watching Tennis right now on RDS and the guy make woman tennis player noise when he does his service. It' sounds like a porno. At first I wasn't watching and thought it was women playing. But the other guy was making men noises. So I then thought it was woman vs man. But no, homeboy might be Felix Seguin.

Of all the years reading you, this is the most Kimota post of them all.

 

[McGees]

Was last year a contract year for Armia?

No and he was waived.

 

[Andrei79]

I agree. I think that was the defense to begin the year.

Matheson-Guhle
Hutson-Savard
Xhekaj-Barron

The main problem was Savard was not able to handle the load anymore. That was the main problem imo. Yes Savard has been playing well lately in a reduced role on the 3rd pairing but he was atrocious before his role was reduced. Now why the Hutson - Matheson pairing his working and why did the Matheson - Guhle pairing did not work i'm not 100% sure. Maybe Guhle is simply not good on the right side?

But yeah i agree Barron was not the main problem but we solved it by trading him though. I think too many people assume Carrier was worth nothing. He has only two years left at 3.750 millions. It's not a terrible deal at all for a solid 3rd pairing guy. Maybe Nashville received couple of offers and somehow just liked Barron?

I agree regarding the Carrier trade. I think that was an underrated asset they acquired. Solid contract, can handle top 4 duties, skates and passes well, physical, reliable, young and a RHD. That's a first rounder at the deadline. I think Nashville might have thought there was suspect development going on with Barron and thought they could fix some issues. Hughes mentioned they didn't have a veteran to support him. Nashville does, Josi. Being paired with someone like him can change the course of a career.

 

[dcyhabs]

I still think Barron wasn't the only factor, but inexperience as a whole as only Matheson and Savard were experienced defensemen. The group had trouble making reads and it affected the veterans who were trying to compensate too much. It was more apparent with Barron because his confidence is fragile, he's soft and has brain cramps. He suffered from not having an experienced partner. Having Josi is going to help him quite a bit and he might carve out a Petry like career with Nashville. In any case, Evans would be my main priority. I would consider Olivier and/or Armia and we'll need a spot for Kapanen or Beck. In a perfect world, Gallagher is gone this summer along with Dvorak.


I find the reason it's hard to let go of Armia is that he brings something very unique that's sought out throughout the league: 6'4", right handed, a monster along the boards with high end puck handling. When he puts it all together he's a handful. If we didn't have him, management would probably be looking for someone like him.

And it’s less variations in his play than variations in team play. He plays high event and generates loose pucks. He doesn’t score a lot. When the team can take advantage of his chaotic shifts he looks good. When the team is not scoring his lack of offense is pointed out as a big problem.

In international tournaments he plays with good players who can generate offense from his board play. I suspect Evans is benefiting somewhat this year.

 

[Team_Spirit]

Xhekaj

 

[LaP]

No and he was waived.

And not claimed despite being paid only 3.4 millions which is nothing for a solid 3rd line guy these days. Armia's contract is perfectly fine when he's a good 3rd line player. So the evaluation of all NHL GMs including our own was that Armia was not a good 3rd line player.

 

[Habs Icing]

View attachment 962661

So that's what Marty looks like when he has the stomach flu.

 

[Habs Icing]

And not claimed despite being paid only 3.4 millions which is nothing for a solid 3rd line guy these days. Armia's contract is perfectly fine when he's a good 3rd line player. So the evaluation of all NHL GMs including our own was that Armia was not a good 3rd line player.

So Montembeault and Byron, to name just a couple, were not good hockey players. Actually, we can add to that list our head coach MSL.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

 

[DAChampion]

honestly astonished to see pople think this team has arrived and can afford to wait 5 years before trying kids to fill in the obvious holes while icing average vets like Dvorak and Armia. It's crazy. It's 100% f***ing CRAZY. It's like the Houle years never hapened and were erased from memory. I'm totally mind blown can't believe it.

I completely agree with your gist.

What I'll say is that we're in an unusual situation. There is an unsustainable hot streak, and the team has very few injuries (only Heinemen and Reinbacher), including no injuries to established players.

Unless MSL has taught the players how to avoid getting injured, there will eventually be space for guys like Beck, Kappanen, Hage, etc. It will happen naturally. But not when the team is healthy and firing on all cylinders.

It's also the case that Joshua Roy, Logan Mailloux, and Oliver Kappanen were each given legitimate chances at the start of the year. They didn't cut it. So it's fair that they wait until next year.

The current roster already has multiple rookies: Hutson, Dobes, Heinemen.

Finally, whatever spots open up next year, Demidov is first in line.

 

[morhilane]

Unless MSL has taught the players how to avoid getting injured,

Something I realized at the start of the season: the players engage along the board a bit differently this season and have much better hit avoidance skills (And Guhle mentioned training that in the off-season). So in a way it looks like they did. Also, some players aren't as careless as before.

Habs also made changes to their fitness/health departement staff in June 2023.

 

[LaP]

I completely agree with your gist.

What I'll say is that we're in an unusual situation. There is an unsustainable hot streak, and the team has very few injuries (only Heinemen and Reinbacher), including no injuries to established players.

I think we are in a similar spot than when Markov and Plekanec came in. Koivu was 28. Zednik 27. Souray 27. Bulis 25. Theodore 26 (not that many years left). We had a bunch of good kids incoming Ribeiro, Ryder, Markov, Plekanec, Beauchemin, Hainsey, Komisarek, Perezhogin, Higgins. The 1998 draft was a pretty awesome draft for us and could have been the start of something good.

But then we started to win. And then we acted like we did not have to try kids. We let Beauchemin cook for no reason while icing vets like Dykhuis and Traverse. We did the same with Hainsey. We lost both for nothing. We did not want to commit with Perezhogin or Grabovski for no reason while we had vets like Petrov, Zholtok Dackell in the lineup.

We waited too much and then Koivu was not good anymore. We then got lucky with Patch and Subban when Plekanec and Markov were getting old but we did not commit again. I honestly think it's a very similar situation than the last 30 years. We simply do not want to commit. We are still missing pieces. And as long as we are missing pieces we should commit. In 5 years Kick Suzuki will be 30 it will be too late to start trying kids.

Unless MSL has taught the players how to avoid getting injured, there will eventually be space for guys like Beck, Kappanen, Hage, etc. It will happen naturally. But not when the team is healthy and firing on all cylinders.

Yeah but if you sign Armia and Evans and Demidov makes the team then Armia will be the 13th forward so you'll need two injuries to give TOI to a kid.

It's also the case that Joshua Roy, Logan Mailloux, and Oliver Kappanen were each given legitimate chances at the start of the year. They didn't cut it. So it's fair that they wait until next year.

I absolutely agree but the key point is we tried them. It's fair to wait next year i do not question that. I question the whole we should sign Armia, Dvorak and Evans to 2-3 years contract. That will leave absolutely 0 spot until Suzuki is 28 as Armia would be 13th forward and Dvorak 14th forward with Demidov making the team.

 

[LaP]

So Montembeault and Byron, to name just a couple, were not good hockey players. Actually, we can add to that list our head coach MSL.

When we claimed Montembeault he was absolutely not a good NHLer. Her was a great tank commander in 2021-22. But he was 24 not 31 so he had time to improve.

 

[Runner77]

Suzuki, is a quiet low keyed star.......the guy is our best player, hands down.......the kid has been amazing since he landed in Montreal..................glad we got him, and not Cody Glass!! lol

And Suzuki’s quite durable at a solid 212 lbs.

He’s got the 3rd longest consecutive games streak among active players, at 417. No other Hab appears in the top 50:

NHL Records

records.nhl.com

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

I think we are in a similar spot than when Markov and Plekanec came in. Koivu was 28. Zednik 27. Souray 27. Bulis 25. Theodore 26 (not that many years left). We had a bunch of good kids incoming Ribeiro, Ryder, Markov, Plekanec, Beauchemin, Hainsey, Komisarek, Perezhogin, Higgins. The 1998 draft was a pretty awesome draft for us and could have been the start of something good.

But then we started to win. And then we acted like we did not have to try kids. We let Beauchemin cook for no reason while icing vets like Dykhuis and Traverse. We did the same with Hainsey. We lost both for nothing. We did not want to commit with Perezhogin or Grabovski for no reason while we had vets like Petrov, Zholtok Dackell in the lineup.

We waited too much and then Koivu was not good anymore. We then got lucky with Patch and Subban when Plekanec and Markov were getting old but we did not commit again. I honestly think it's a very similar situation than the last 30 years. We simply do not want to commit. We are still missing pieces. And as long as we are missing pieces we should commit. In 5 years Kick Suzuki will be 30 it will be too late to start trying kids.



Yeah but if you sign Armia and Evans and Demidov makes the team then Armia will be the 13th forward so you'll need two injuries to give TOI to a kid.



I absolutely agree but the key point is we tried them. It's fair to wait next year i do not question that. I question the whole we should sign Armia, Dvorak and Evans to 2-3 years contract. That will leave absolutely 0 spot as Armia would be 13 th forward and Dvorak 24th forward with Demidov making the team.

They will certainly try to add whatever they think is needed before the start of next season. Doesn't mean they will be able to but they will try. And if they are in a playoff spot at the trade dealine they will try to add without giving up any valuable assets.

 

[jrom]

If he continues his high level of play, Armia will be one of the more sought after trade deadline players. He can add a lot to any team who, right or wrongly, thinks they are on the cusp of a long playoff run. And if he doesn't take advantage of this marketable asset, Hughes isn't nearly as smart as I think he is.

He is a guy that could be traded at TDL and resigned as an UFA.

 

[Rapala]

So, if the pattern of win/loss over the last month hold true... we take the win against Toronto, then L to the Rags

.... or do we unlock the secret to the mythical 4 game win streak?!

Like Columbus we just need some ex employee bad mouthing the organization then the sky is the limit.
Maybe Max Domi can run his mouth off.

 

[Runner77]

But even Beck after one more full season in the AHL he'll have more AHL exp than almost all good players developped by TB and Dallas. But apparently for whatever reasons i can't grasp he neeeds to spend 4 more years in the AHL because Dallas and TB LET THEM COOOOOOOOOOK.

Make no sense people should check their facts before posting stupidity it's not Facebook it's HFboards for god sake. The problem in the past was never that we did not let them cook. We did let them cook. They simply were not good enough. The few ones who were (Beauchemin, Conroy, Tucker) we lost them for nothing after letting them cook. Leting a player cook do not make him more skilled.

During the houle years we traded Tucker after cooking one year in the AHL and after cooking on a 4th line for a year and a half and do you know who the f*** the 3rd line center was? It was Marc Bureau (30). Yes i'm not even f***ing joking here. Shit i'm so frustrated right now to see nobody f***ing remember the Houle years i'll have to take a walk to calm down after buying a dog.

Yes, there was a lack of talent in some cases and that stems from Habs scouting mistakes. However, if there were any players who could have developed, would they have stood a chance with a mangler like Sylvain Lefebvre, who was given a lot of job security as a Bergevin buddy.

 

[CHfan1]

If he continues his high level of play, Armia will be one of the more sought after trade deadline players. He can add a lot to any team who, right or wrongly, thinks they are on the cusp of a long playoff run. And if he doesn't take advantage of this marketable asset, Hughes isn't nearly as smart as I think he is.

What will his trade value be though. If it’s a late 2nd or 3rd round pick is it worth it if Montreal is in the playoff race. I would think playing hockey at the end of the season, with the pressure of making or not making the playoffs might be more beneficial to this team than another mid-round pick. And if they do make the playoffs I think that’s more added value going into the future.