Post-Game Talk: Dobby and the Habs defeat the Stars in Dallas

[HuGo boss]

After Debbie does Dallas and this post, I believe you guys have things in your mind but I cannot figure out what.

I think you mean dobby does Dallas, thanks folks ill see my way out

 

[OldCraig71]

Important to not forget Armia will be 32 next season. If he remains better than the kids it wont be for mroe than an extra year imo. Don't see him being better than any kid who develop in two years.

Guys like him become more valuable once the team around him becomes better, he is in the right place in the lineup right now as he would be if traded to a contending team. In the past we didn't have the talent to be afforded that luxury and it forced guys like him to play above their station, making them look bad.

Evans, Armia and Heineman are made for playoff hockey, Therrien would love their grind level. It would be cool if they could get him on a 2 year deal but he may want something longer at his age. I don't think there is a better player in the league along the boards.

 

[V13]

Yeah but that pylon might win a couple face-offs. At least back in the day it was Yanic Perreault and nobody could beat him.

If there was a Hall Of Fame for faceoffs a gigantic 50 feet statue of Perreault would be built right outside the building.

That man was a faceoff god lol

 

[ChesterNimitz]

Armia may be even more effective on defense without his stick.

I have never understood why players without a stick just stand there and largely become a traffic cone. Armia did the right thing: physically attack/challenge the closest opposing player with the puck and turn the play into a 4 on 4 for players with sticks.

Lawrence Taylor once famously urged his teammates to play 'like a pack of wild dogs'. And for those 30 seconds, Armia, without a stick, played like a wild dog.

The Canadiens current resurgence started with Anderson's clubbing of Trouba. That fight instilled an new fire and confidence in the team. You have witnessed this high compete level in the team's recent and ongoing win streak. The team is playing fast, hard and confident.

These are not your Daddy's Canadiens.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I have never understood why players without a stick just stand there and largely become a traffic cone. Armia did the right thing: physically attack/challenge the closest opposing player with the puck and turn the play into a 4 on 4 for players with sticks.

Lawrence Taylor once famously urged his teammates to play 'like a pack of wild dogs'. And for those 30 seconds, Armia, without a stick, played like a wild dog.

The Canadiens current resurgence started with Anderson's clubbing of Trouba. That fight instilled an new fire and confidence in the team. You have witnessed this high compete level in the team's recent and ongoing win streak. The team is playing fast, hard and confident.

These are not your Daddy's Canadiens.

Well, my dad’s Canadiens won like 20 cups so… Maybe it’s better to say that ‘these might be your dad’s Canadiens.’

 

[sampollock]

that is what I was wanting
EFFORT

in all fairness the win was awesome.
but the effort to me is the most exciting part. shows they are all engaged

 

[SwiftyHab]

View attachment 962443

so many doors

 

[V13]

that is what I was wanting
EFFORT

in all fairness the win was awesome.
but the effort to me is the most exciting part. shows they are all engaged

MSL is building a team in his image. If there is an exemple of never giving up it's him. An undrafted diminutive forward who had to work his ass off to make it to the big show and who ended up becoming a superstar and leader of the cup winning Bolts in 2004. Marty was always going at 100% effort

He had his ups and down as a new coach which is part of the learning process but we can see that it's all starting to gel right now

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Who will kill penalties next season Heineman? We don't have a direct replacement for Armia.
We actually have more talented prospects in Jake Evans' role.
We are at the point where Gallagher's usefulness has come to a screeching halt and he will become the highest paid 13th forward in the league. Sign Armia if he isn't over priced the narrative is changing it's about winning games now. I would argue the biggest improvement in our PK came at the end of last season with Joel Armia's game.

Suzuki, Anderson, Kapanen, Evans/Beck, and they can try guys like Newhook/Slaf/Dach on the pk as well. It's not a big deal getting players to learn how to play the pk. Anderson hadn't played the pk with the habs before, and he's been good at it this season.

Armia is way better suited in the bottom 6 than Newhook (who might be the 3rd line center next year) and is better than Gallagher. They can definitely make room for him.

Gallagher's contract isn't moveable, and I doubt they will buy him out or waive him. They will also not move Newhook when he is at his lowest value. There is simply no place for Armia.

 

[Rapala]

Suzuki, Anderson, Kapanen, Evans/Beck, and they can try guys like Newhook/Slaf/Dach on the pk as well. It's not a big deal getting players to learn how to play the pk. Anderson hadn't played the pk with the habs before, and he's been good at it this season.




Gallagher's contract isn't moveable, and I doubt they will buy him out or waive him. They will also not move Newhook when he is at his lowest value. There is simply no place for Armia.

Anderson was a very good PKer under Torterella and should have continued with the role when Bergevin acquired him. Unfortunately we paid him and played him like he was some kind of top 4 power winger.
Just another miscast player at the time.

 

[ChesterNimitz]

Well, my dad’s Canadiens won like 20 cups so… Maybe it’s better to say that ‘these might be your dad’s Canadiens.’

You're probably right, in a literal sense. But I used this famous phrase as an euphemism to denote a startling change. And in this case, for a person who has personally lived to see the Canadiens win 18 Stanley Cups, it's a good change.

 

[ChesterNimitz]

Gallagher's contract isn't moveable, and I doubt they will buy him out or waive him. They will also not move Newhook when he is at his lowest value. There is simply no place for Armia.

If he continues his high level of play, Armia will be one of the more sought after trade deadline players. He can add a lot to any team who, right or wrongly, thinks they are on the cusp of a long playoff run. And if he doesn't take advantage of this marketable asset, Hughes isn't nearly as smart as I think he is.

 

[LaP]

Guys like him become more valuable once the team around him becomes better, he is in the right place in the lineup right now as he would be if traded to a contending team. In the past we didn't have the talent to be afforded that luxury and it forced guys like him to play above their station, making them look bad.

Evans, Armia and Heineman are made for playoff hockey, Therrien would love their grind level. It would be cool if they could get him on a 2 year deal but he may want something longer at his age. I don't think there is a better player in the league along the boards.

Also guys like him should be easily repleceable. If they are not then you don't have a good team. If Armia would be playing for Dallas would you consider him a necessity for Dallas? Would you say Dallas needs him to make the playoffs? I still firmly believe we need to upgrade the top 4 and top 6 and to do that we need to bring in some kids in the bottom 6 and 3rd pairing to give them exp and see if they got what it takes. Also Armia is 32 he'll hit a wall sooner than later and he's been inconsistent his entire career that's why Winnipeg dumped him for nothing and that's why nobody offered anything for him the last 2 years.

 

[morhilane]

Anderson hadn't played the pk with the habs before, and he's been good at it this season.

Anderson played on the pk in 2022-2023 (logged 87 minutes of it) since MSL knew he played on it in Columbus (unlike the previous coaches). He was taken off it last year because he had other issues.

And if learning to PK was so easy, last year Habs PK wouldn't have been that shit without Armia on it. After all, if it was easy, someone should have easily learned to do what Armia is doing...

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

Anderson played on the pk in 2022-2023 (logged 87 minutes of it) since MSL knew he played on it in Columbus (unlike the previous coaches). He was taken off it last year because he had other issues.

And if learning to PK was so easy, last year Habs PK wouldn't have been that shit without Armia on it. After all, if it was easy, someone should have easily learned to do what Armia is doing...

learning PK is EASY
If our strat is to sign the same bottom 6 who failed for years then lets do it , it wont work in the future

 

[The Real Timo]

I think you mean dobby does Dallas, thanks folks ill see my way out

Seems like everyone likes to do Dallas... I've never been to Dallas, but looks like I should...

 

[Habs Icing]

Also guys like him should be easily repleceable. If they are not then you don't have a good team. If Armia would be playing for Dallas would you consider him a necessity for Dallas? Would you say Dallas needs him to make the playoffs?

Armia manhandled the Dallas players. They don't need him to make the playoffs. They also don't need him to be on the opposing side during the playoffs.

 

[LaP]

Except for Demidov and maybe Beck, which kid is an upgrade. Hage will need at least a year in the A. Reinbacher will have lost a year of development, and do I need to remind you that he will have to make up for that lost year and, like Dach, get his body into top form again? So, what kid or kids are you referring to?

That's already enough.

Caufield - Suzuki - Slaf
Laine - Dach - Demidov
Newhook - Evans - Heineman
Anderson - Beck / Kapanen - Gallagher

We don't have room even with just Beck and Demidov. I think bringing in Beck or Kapanen to play with two vets like Anderson and Gallagher on a 4th line would be good. No pressure. Play with vets. Reduced TOI. Perfect scenario to bring in a rookie. If Dach doesn't pan out we need solutions. One of Beck or Kapanen should be in the NHL and the other the AHL. There's no room for anybody else.

To your list i'd add Edstrom. We absolutely need to find a top 4 RHD and a solid clear cut cup contender one in his prime. It's harder to find than people think. I like Carrier but he's not a top 4 on a contenter team. If it can't be done via a trade then we should try kids.

Hutson - Matheson
Guhle - Carrier
Xhekaj - Reinbacher / Engstrom / Mailloux

We have two rookies in the lineup atm in Heineman and Hutson and one of them is heavily responsible for us being close to a playoffs spot. Adding 2 or 3 more next year with 2 in a reduced role as 4th line center and 3rd pairing dman will not transform this team into a bottom 10 team and if it does then what we see is a major fluke. Engstrom and Kapanen both have pro experience in europeand like Heineman they would not be rookies coming straight from the CHL or university.

People forget we got Carrier because we tried Barron. If you waive Barron you lose him and you probably ain't getting Carrier. If nobodoy claim him then he'd have 0 value. We showed Barron and for whatever reason Nashville liked him and they traded Carrier for him. If you don't show your kids noboody will give you anything for them unless they are Demidov. Jays got something for Horwitz because they showed him. If they let him rot in the AAA any longer he'd have 0 value.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Anderson played on the pk in 2022-2023 (logged 87 minutes of it) since MSL knew he played on it in Columbus (unlike the previous coaches). He was taken off it last year because he had other issues.

And if learning to PK was so easy, last year Habs PK wouldn't have been that shit without Armia on it. After all, if it was easy, someone should have easily learned to do what Armia is doing...

You're proving my point. The habs have largely the same pk forwards as last season (rhp/monahan out, Anderson in), but their pk went from being bottom 10 to being top 8 this season.

Armia is a good pker, but replacing him with a less good pker isn't going to make or break the habs pk.

 

[morhilane]

You're proving my point. The habs have largely the same pk forwards as last season (rhp/monahan out, Anderson in), but their pk went from being bottom 10 to being top 8 this season.

Armia is a good pker, but replacing him with a less good pker isn't going to make or break the habs pk.

Habs PK went from bottom 10 to top 10 pk last season. Armia was recalled late November and from January 16th to season end, the Habs PK was top 10 in the league. It had a 5% improvement just adding Armia right away.

 

[OldCraig71]

Also guys like him should be easily repleceable. If they are not then you don't have a good team. If Armia would be playing for Dallas would you consider him a necessity for Dallas? Would you say Dallas needs him to make the playoffs? I still firmly believe we need to upgrade the top 4 and top 6 and to do that we need to bring in some kids in the bottom 6 and 3rd pairing to give them exp and see if they got what it takes. Also Armia is 32 he'll hit a wall sooner than later and he's been inconsistent his entire career that's why Winnipeg dumped him for nothing and that's why nobody offered anything for him the last 2 years.

I agree with all your points here but I don't see a trade happening if we are in the mix at the trade deadline because it is unlikely that a kid from Laval can come into the lineup and replace him.

If the team continues to play well, Hughes probably won't do anything to disrupt team chemistry. I mean, Evans/Armia and Heineman have probably been our steadiest trio, they were good before the rest of the team adjusted to the defensive system.

We may end up losing him for nothing in July or he might sign a team friendly deal, it's hard to say what they do.

 

[V13]

Also guys like him should be easily repleceable. If they are not then you don't have a good team. If Armia would be playing for Dallas would you consider him a necessity for Dallas? Would you say Dallas needs him to make the playoffs? I still firmly believe we need to upgrade the top 4 and top 6 and to do that we need to bring in some kids in the bottom 6 and 3rd pairing to give them exp and see if they got what it takes. Also Armia is 32 he'll hit a wall sooner than later and he's been inconsistent his entire career that's why Winnipeg dumped him for nothing and that's why nobody offered anything for him the last 2 years.

Indeed

Armia is playing well right now but he is textbook case of "You need to know when to let go". If our pipeline was dry or he was 25ish years old maybe you re-sign him but that's not the case. Now i'm not gonna be angry if Hughes does re-sign him but i don't think it's necessary.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Habs PK went from bottom 10 to top 10 pk last season. Armia was recalled late November and from January 16th to season end, the Habs PK was top 10 in the league. It had a 5% improvement just adding Armia right away.

Armia was sent down and recalled twice last season.

In his first recall, he played 6 games, the pk was 15th in the NHL during that span.

In his second recall, he played 60 games, the habs pk were 21st in that span.

Besides this season, the habs had a bad pk every year Armia has been a part of this team. It's not his fault, but it shows the limitedness of his impact. How the dmen play, how the PKers play as a group of 4, and how the system works are a lot more important to the success of a pk than having 1 particular forward there.

 

[le_sean]

...and yet still scares the living shyte out of Habs fans on a regular basis...can we get past the fear and resign him again??...will he disappoint once he's inked...again??...

Always wary of players on the final year of their deals. Especially ones like Armia who have a long history of being inconsistent.

 

[LaP]

Yeah, this lack of size is exactly why I want us to resign Armia if he takes a home discount. That way we have some balance until our bigger bottom 6 forward prospects are ready to contribute.


Huh ?!? The reason we had tons of vets and no kids contributing is because we didn't draft well and didn't develop well. In most cases it was the opposite problem, we brought up players too early and hurt their development when they should have been marinating in the AHL.

Forget about 'showcasing players' by bringing them up when they're not ready. That's a recipe for failure and will just hurt their trade value even more.

I'm hoping now that we're focused more on results we give even more room to vets and let the players marinate in the AHL like the most successful teams (i.e. Dallas, Tampa) do. As long as those vet contracts are moveable, we don't shoot ourselves in the foot and ensure our players can come up when they're ready.

Dallas do not let their kids marinate. Please check your facts. Robertson played 60 AHL games. Wyatt Johnson played 0 AHL games. Stankoven played 47 AHL games. Hintz played 91 AHL games. Heiskanen played 0 AHL games and 67 Liiga games. Lindell played 80 AHL games. Oettinger played 54 AHL games. The only one who cooked is Thomas Harley that's it.

TB do not either. Kucherov played 17 AHL games. Point 9 AHL games. Sergachev 0 AHL games. Cirelli 54 AHL games. Hedman 0 AHL games. Stamkos 0 AHL games. Geekie 0 AHL games. Perbix 14 AHL games. Cernak 79 AHL games. Vasi 37 AHL games. Palat 117 AHL games. Killhorn 54 AHL games. Johnson 137 AHL games. Colton 131 AHL games. Only one who really cooked is Gourde.

Both Engstrom and Kapnen will be 22 with pro experience in Europe. If they ain't ready to play a reduced role in the NHL they never will be. So what's the plan? Let them cook int he AHL until they are 25 and go thru waivers? To know if they can play a role in the NHL you must try them at the NHL level. Next season Engstrom will have 95 games of SHL exp and around 70-80 games of AHL exp. Kapanen will have around 40 games of SHL exp, 124 games of Liiga exp and 12 games of NHL exp.

Also in the past 30 years we did lose young players without trying them after letting them cook in the AHL until they were so overcook it was impossible to digest them. Beauchemin who was a top 4 on a cup winning team we tried him one game. Conroy who was a top 6 center on a team reaching the scf we tried him 13 games. We also traded young players before giving them enough time to develop like Tucker who was traded after one season and a half for nothing and had a long career. He did not need to cook he just needed time to develop at the NHL level.

We also undervalued Sergachev before trying him. We did the same with McDornagh. They did not cook, they did not need they were too good, but we traded them without evaluating them because we did not need kids we needed vets MOAR vets and yes that was such a resounding success both trades. I'm honestly astonished to see pople think this team has arrived and can afford to wait 5 years before trying kids to fill in the obvious holes while icing average vets like Dvorak and Armia. It's crazy. It's 100% f***ing CRAZY. It's like the Houle years never hapened and were erased from memory. I'm totally mind blown can't believe it.