Unpredictable1
Registered User
Maybe it's more of the latter then that turned me off from what I saw. I already mentioned I never saw enough of him.
Do you want Pierre Luc Dubois on this team?
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Maybe it's more of the latter then that turned me off from what I saw. I already mentioned I never saw enough of him.
Gr8CornHolio
Registered User
- Feb 20, 2020
- 174
- 177
I want every good player on this team. But that whole Salary cap thing tells me I can’t have what I want.
With that said would rather keep on the current path and see how this team turns out potentially being good for a decade rather then get in cap trouble.
After this year all our penalties are gone so while there is potential to take a step back this year would rather take a step back for a giant leap forward the year after
With that said would rather keep on the current path and see how this team turns out potentially being good for a decade rather then get in cap trouble.
After this year all our penalties are gone so while there is potential to take a step back this year would rather take a step back for a giant leap forward the year after
MarkMessyay11
Registered User
The cap is a big inhibitor in my desire to trade for him too. As is the cost to acquire him. In a vacuum, yeah I would love to have him. A top 2 C duo of Zib & PLD would be the best 1-2 bunch we’ve had since I started watching them in the 90’s.
Assuming we sign him long term and the cap does somehow work (because it has to if we trade for him), I just struggle with the cost to acquire him. Chytil really showed a lot of progression in the playoffs, but was it a flash in the pan? Or is he actually finally breaking through that next step to being a consistent 50-60 point center? I’m not sure. But I can understand why Drury would want to maximize on the boost in value Chytil got based on his playoff performance.
Kakko, on the other hand, is a guy who I’m very reluctant to move. It’s funny how we “lucked” into two top 2 draft picks and walked out with 2 players we didn’t really “need”…in 2019 we missed out on Hughes, and in 2020 Byfield was the clear #2 behind Laf that year. If we swapped picks in ‘19 and ‘20, you have to wonder how much different this team would be.
Point being, if Drury is really considering trading one of those two guys for a C, it has to be for a young one that we presumably would have drafted in place of one of those guys. PLD fits that bill, IMO…at least among the guys who are actually available via trade.
My only complaints are 1) faceoffs and 2) his payday is coming a year or two before Kakko/Laf’s.
ultimately no, but i would want him here.
just think hed cost too much for the risk in it. at his best hes a physical beast and can still progress, so theres obviously home run upside in a deal. but costs 6+mm on the cap, is 24 and still struggles with consistency in all areas, is not very good defensively, and sucks at faceoffs. chytil isnt nearly the same presence physically and hasnt produced at that level, but hes still 22, coming off an impressive playoff that may lead to a big step offensively, and is cost controlled while mirroring the defensive struggles and faceoff suck.
the idea of parting with chytil + 1-2 other prime assets for someone with off ice baggage, a tough cap hit, and on ice question marks doesnt seem like ideal risk-reward. i could come around on it if it happened ... im not fully sold on chytil and would be ok moving him in the right deal, just dont think this is it.
just think hed cost too much for the risk in it. at his best hes a physical beast and can still progress, so theres obviously home run upside in a deal. but costs 6+mm on the cap, is 24 and still struggles with consistency in all areas, is not very good defensively, and sucks at faceoffs. chytil isnt nearly the same presence physically and hasnt produced at that level, but hes still 22, coming off an impressive playoff that may lead to a big step offensively, and is cost controlled while mirroring the defensive struggles and faceoff suck.
the idea of parting with chytil + 1-2 other prime assets for someone with off ice baggage, a tough cap hit, and on ice question marks doesnt seem like ideal risk-reward. i could come around on it if it happened ... im not fully sold on chytil and would be ok moving him in the right deal, just dont think this is it.
What I found impressive about Chytil this post season is his stamina. Pavel Bure had the same quality, in deep playoff runs he maintained his normal levels, making him look extra extra fast when everybody else were cooked after a long season and a step or three slower. I don't care so much about "playmaking" if Fil can develop his finishing. If he plays with playmakers/setup guys like Laf and Kakko the line will be fine and he won't have to be the traditional creative guy on the line.
I'm one of the dubious (teehee) ones when it comes to PLD. Everybody, including me, LOVES the idea of the physical two way archetypal 2C. For me PLD knows that idea well and plays on it to get his way. That's the part I don't like. Ask Columbus fans about him and the way he quit on their team. Now he took a public dump again on his new team. Within his rights or not doesn't really appeal to me. Add his spotty record, his cost in transaction, then the cost if he actually is successful (he will ask for 1C money) or waltz away as a UFA.
So, do we play poker and go all in on a bet - on a player who doesn't seem to be the most stable personality out there, or do we play chess and calculate the position on the board and go with an actual plan? (I'm a chess player personally).
no
highest I go is 2 future firsts and Jones.
Risk this guy walks after 2 yrs is way too high.
It remains to be seen what MON would pay to get him early.
Assuming it is not a lot, and there are similar not better offers, THEN
we can flip
LaF + PLD + Panarin
for
like
Suzuki + Wright + Barron + 3 unprotected 1sts, rangers choice, over next 7 years
win win
We add quality, rejuvenate + lower cap reset
Canadiens deliver to their French base
chytil looked like he came a long way this year because i was completely done with him. hes certainly got some good qualities...the size, skating, shot, and flashes of skill are there. i cant get a read on him with his iq tho, like in the o zone he moves the puck competently and reads the play to find open ice....but in his own zone and the neutral zone hes a moron with the puck. never sees outlets, no timing, no ability to dictate play coming up ice that attacks with a plan to open a team up...i dont know why he sees the play in one zone and sees nothing in the other 2. he also needs to grow up when it comes to competing...in the d zone hes always trying to poke pucks away. needs to start pinning guys on the wall, needs to stop skating next to a guy waving at the puck and drive his shoulder into them and take it. hes a big strong guy now, time to play like it. thats why i'm ok if we moved him...wouldnt say id be looking to, but wouldnt have him off limits. hes grown enough to have hope he could be a 2c, but theres holes in his game that will have him out of the nhl unless hes putting up like 70+ pts once hes aged out of teams seeing "upside". cant be a 30-40 pt guy in the nhl and not be good in your own end.
as for pld, agree with everything you said. dont need an expensive drama queen whos gonna have a 5 point night and then disappear for 10 games. i love everything about what he could be, i dont have faith he would be to where i pony up multiple quality assets
NickyFotiu
NYR 2024 Cup Champs!
- Sep 29, 2011
- 17,103
- 9,106
A few thoughts.
1. I do not see where PLD ever demanded a trade from Win. He just said he would like to test FA in 2024.
2. Lots of players have wanted out of CBJ and Win. Reportedly PLD wants to win. I cant blame the guy. Would you want to play in Win for the rest of your career?
3. I actually would like PLD on a 2 year deal not long term. That gives us 2 years to evaluate if we do want to keep him. If it does not work out we could probably trade him for a first as a rental near the end of his second season.
1. I do not see where PLD ever demanded a trade from Win. He just said he would like to test FA in 2024.
2. Lots of players have wanted out of CBJ and Win. Reportedly PLD wants to win. I cant blame the guy. Would you want to play in Win for the rest of your career?
3. I actually would like PLD on a 2 year deal not long term. That gives us 2 years to evaluate if we do want to keep him. If it does not work out we could probably trade him for a first as a rental near the end of his second season.
NickyFotiu
NYR 2024 Cup Champs!
- Sep 29, 2011
- 17,103
- 9,106
I’m an unabashed fan of Pierre-Luc Dubois. The beefy, brawny centre acquired in the deal for Patrik Laine has become a quick fan favorite among the Winnipeg Jets supporter base. After a slower start last season, Dubois hit the ground running this year and never looked back...for the most part. The biggest question surrounding Dubois now is whether or not he’ll be back in a Jets jersey next season. For what it’s worth, I’d be doing everything within reason to make PLD a permanent Home Depot and Winnipeg Jets employee.
What made Dubois tick this year? For one thing, a bruising forecheck and relentless slot assault allowed PLD to pop to the tune of 60 points. Honestly, I felt like Dubois could have had 10-15 more points based on his performances throughout the season. PLD was a beast down low, showing off excellent hand-eye coordination, and a strong frame to shield the puck under pressure. That Dubois can absolutely rip a puck through goalies certainly makes his toolset quite diverse. He was just as willing to snipe one over a shoulder as he was in dishing out a perfect assist to a teammate.
:no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/23593603/1240448707.jpg "Seattle Kraken v Winnipeg Jets")
Photo by Christopher Mast/NHLI via Getty Images
Much like KFC, Dubois really hit his stride once he was dropped onto the 81-80-71 line. This unit terrorized opposing defenses, and dominated offensive zone possessions in a way we haven’t seen since the 2017-18 Jets. The mixture of skill, speed, size, and defensive acumen all played together in beautiful harmony. Despite an impressively strong season, Dubois did take a bit of a step back during the season half of the year. Points became harder to come by and his on-ice impacts dipped a touch. Even still, PLD’s second season as a Jet was a remarkable success. All we can hope is that it won’t be his last one.
What made Dubois tick this year? For one thing, a bruising forecheck and relentless slot assault allowed PLD to pop to the tune of 60 points. Honestly, I felt like Dubois could have had 10-15 more points based on his performances throughout the season. PLD was a beast down low, showing off excellent hand-eye coordination, and a strong frame to shield the puck under pressure. That Dubois can absolutely rip a puck through goalies certainly makes his toolset quite diverse. He was just as willing to snipe one over a shoulder as he was in dishing out a perfect assist to a teammate.
Much like KFC, Dubois really hit his stride once he was dropped onto the 81-80-71 line. This unit terrorized opposing defenses, and dominated offensive zone possessions in a way we haven’t seen since the 2017-18 Jets. The mixture of skill, speed, size, and defensive acumen all played together in beautiful harmony. Despite an impressively strong season, Dubois did take a bit of a step back during the season half of the year. Points became harder to come by and his on-ice impacts dipped a touch. Even still, PLD’s second season as a Jet was a remarkable success. All we can hope is that it won’t be his last one.
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/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/71040777/1230362088.0.jpg "Finland v Slovakia: Preliminary Round Group A - 2021 IIHF World Junior Championship")
/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/71040154/1397250309.0.jpg "Calgary Flames v Dallas Stars - Game Six")
Your list of his IQ weaknesses is exactly why he needs to play with guys like Laf and Kakko, they cover for his neutral zone weakness, and support him for his o-zone strengths. His defensive weakness is why I don't see him as a 3C, even if I am positive he will improve that side of the game as well as he matures. Unfortunately I'm not sure he is ideal for Panarin at 2C, which is the current dilemma. Chytil is best with cycling players, and Panarin needs two way help at C to be at his best (Strome is not good enough either). Ideally Chytil should have 2 more years to mature his all round game into a solid 2C, but here we are, wondering if the club has the patience to wait for him to mature. I do think he is a competitor, but we have only had one season with Gallant to put him right.
I have this nagging feeling Chytil took a huge step this post season, and it would be weird if he broke out offensively immediately after he was traded for a "more mature" player (is PLD mature?). No doubt the Jets can do the math and will demand a huge price for PLD, knowing exactly where the Rangers stand.
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i just see iq as one thing thats an absolute requirement, or at least one id have if it were up to me. you may very well be right in his having the ability to grow into a 2c on talent if surrounded by the right players. if it works it works, just something i guess id have to see. im with you on its too early to make a call on him, im probably less optimistic than you, but im not writing him off either. he really needs to play more aggressive next year and i do think gallant is good for him. hes hard nosed no bs guy but hes not a drill seargent. if you put in the work hell give you a long leash. one thing ill give chytil is i def think the kid wants it and puts in the work. also agree re 2c, hed drive panarin insane haha...not sure theyd last a period
as you said though, i can absolutely see him going off offensively if he were traded. thats just the ranger life we signed up for.
Gr8CornHolio
Registered User
- Feb 20, 2020
- 174
- 177
I’m with you on Kakko. While the numbers are disappointing the way he can control the puck in the offensive zone reminds me of Jagr in the early 90’s very very tough to knock off the puck.
Obviously he doesn’t have the scoring ability Jagr had, but if he can put it all together can be a very very good player.
The fact neither him or Laf play significant power play time also makes there stars look worse.
Hopefully very it mirrors the way the Sedin twins started their career.
I wouldn’t trade either, all for holding the course. But who knows with Dolan.
Larrybiv
We're CLEAN, we PROMISE!
And if the team cannot win a cup with the "leaders on this team", without expecting MAJOR contributions from the kids, well then obviously its just a matter of time. We got spoiled and had visions of grandeur way earlier than expected success.
Yeah, I don't see any question marks about his character. The kids were our best line in the playoffs against veteran cup teams Pittsburgh and Tampa and against the best defensive team in the league. Just let them grow next season as a unit.
Trading Chytil now is selling low, especially since we don't yet know what he will be. He could be the next Kyrou (in the o-zone) for all we know, or as I say, a poor man's Roope Hintz (Roope has better hands and skating, if not by that much). Hintz was another who people doubted but for whom things fell in place once he simplified his game. With simplify i mean lean on his skating for puck movement, dump and chase, and getting open in the slot for shots.
MarkMessyay11
Registered User
I’m only open to the possibility of trading one of them for a center if it’s for one who fits our timeline (around the same age and talent level/ceiling) and cap constraints. PLD sort of fits both…it’s just a matter of how big of a contract would convince him to sign here long term.
Prying Larkin from Detroit would be a dream…a pipe dream lol but a dream nonetheless. But same concerns about an extension and how it factors into being able to retain all of our core pieces.
I think the biggest impediment from the team’s perspective to signing Copp pre-UFA is that they don’t see him as the 2C solution. 2nd line RW with as much versatility as you can ask for? Yes…but that makes a difference in contract negotiations.
McRanger92
Registered User
- Jun 7, 2017
- 14,278
- 26,624
Couldnt have said it better. The "Off the ice" drama with PLD is so overblown. If I were 24 years old and playing in Columbus & Winnipeg, I would want to test free agency as well. The Rangers have directly benefit from situations where players openly had not interest in returning to both teams (Nash, Trouba, Panarin). Why not another?
yea they were the best line but they were a liability on the shifts they got pinned, chytil specifically. were on for ot goals against for pitt and car - thats a big part of why gallant resisted upping their ice time. can argue for or against that decision but i understand the position goals against are more painful than goals for in tight games like those. thats also part of why i see chytils fate being much more questionable than it might appear with our center depth what it is alone - where we agree gallant is good for him as a coach, it certainly feels to me like gallant has not warmed up to him. not saying it cant or wont emerge, but the lack of aggression/physicality on pucks and defensive acumen are things gallant abhors. his effort and incremental improvement as well as potential and lack of alternatives bought him time but i dont think gallant would have any pushback should replacements that fit his preferred qualities come available even if they sacrifice upside.
his potential is just so hard to read because weve seen flashes of it before in spurts only to go cold for long stretches. the fact he showed out in the playoffs obviously makes the strongest case yet, but its still only a small sample size. hintz i can see the comparison, but i think his power and speed are a notch up. chytil has the size to play that way, but again we need to see it and consistently with the highs and lows of his game being much closer together. great games cant be followed by total invisibility ... production can vary but general impact and chances have to be there almost every night. i agree on simplicity, to me that starts with getting pucks out of his end quickly and decisively as well as in the faceoff circle
GENESISPuck94
Registered User
I mostly agree. And in a sense want this to make up for the travesty that was gutting the 92 through mid-94 core that basically won two President's Trophies and featured a couple HOF home grown Rangers (Zubov, Leetch) and a couple borderline HOF players (Amonte, Kovalev).
However, I'll say this, PLD is not the typical shiny toy that dark ages 95-2004 Rangers went after. PLD only just turned 24. For example Zibanejad hadn't yet reached 60 points yet in a season at 24. At 25 he broke out. PLD could, with this Rangers team break out to a 70+ point player with Panarin on his wing.
If, and it's a big if, the Rangers can get PLD without giving away core parts then it's a big win and he'd be a player that can grow with the young core.
All that said, It's not up to me, but if it were I would not be willing to give up Kakko, Lafreniere, Schneider. I'd be hesitant to give up Kravtsov as well. I'm not sure where that leaves us as far as who to trade for him.
GENESISPuck94
Registered User
He's 24 though. So saying his career high in points is 60 is not really an insult. Zibanejad didn't score 60 points in a season until he was 25. PLD already scored 60 more than once.
GENESISPuck94
Registered User
Last thing, we mention wanting to get the next Zibanejad. How we got Zibanejad before he broke out. PLD is exactly that. He just turned 24 in June and already has two 60 point seasons. Zibanejad didn't score 60 points until he was 25. PLD could be traded for and extended for far below what his market value will be if he breaks out as a 70+ point player. He could be a 70+ point player with a 6 mil cap hit. I'm not sure how or where else we are getting that kind of player.
Is Chytil that player? He's only 23. But he hasn't had anything close to that kind of consistency or production over full seasons.
PLD would be a massive upgrade at 2C not just now but based on potential and in the future.
Is Chytil that player? He's only 23. But he hasn't had anything close to that kind of consistency or production over full seasons.
PLD would be a massive upgrade at 2C not just now but based on potential and in the future.
irishlaxburger2
Registered User
Grabbing Colin White cheap really makes Chytil expendable. Would love to see PLD and White as our middle six Cs.
Kreider Mika Lafy
Panarin Dubois Kravtsov
Othmann White Blais
Hunt Goodrow Paju/Reaves
Lindgren Fox
Miller Trouba
Jones Schneider
Igor
UFA backup
I think Paju is a dark horse to make the team
Kakko Chytil gone in Dubois deal
Panarin Dubois Kravtsov
Othmann White Blais
Hunt Goodrow Paju/Reaves
Lindgren Fox
Miller Trouba
Jones Schneider
Igor
UFA backup
I think Paju is a dark horse to make the team
Kakko Chytil gone in Dubois deal
The Crypto Guy
Registered User
- Jun 26, 2017
- 29,166
- 38,809
irishlaxburger2
Registered User
Play Goodrow and/or Motte at center and figure it out.
The sad reality is half a season of White is still more productive than Chytil at this point. And I know, I know, Chytil had a great playoff. But Chytil going on hot streaks is not a new thing. Problem is he then goes silent for 3 months thereafter. Can he break that trend? I’d let someone else find that out.
