Do you want Milan Lucic on the oilers?

[Ol' Jase]

Jerome Iginla comes to mind as a player who has remained extremely effective and had dropped the mitts more than a few times.

 

[Replacement*]

Lucic is a player first, not a goon.

And he is consistently, including last season, a very effective player.

He would certainly help this club.

Certainly he's not a goon first and foremost. But he's somebody that has been tagged by countless vicious headshots while taking on the role of an NHL hockey fighter (which he didn't have to do)

Lucic would have incurred the brain trauma that any other longterm hockey fighter would. Not sure how this is unclear.

Still waiting for those citations of players that have fought in the NHL for a full decade still having careers well into their 30's. Where is that list of such players. it largely doesn't exist.

Usually players just bow out. Its a thing the NHL prefers not get noticed.

 

[Ol' Jase]

Certainly he's not a goon first and foremost. But he's somebody that has been tagged by countless vicious headshots while taking on the role of an NHL hockey fighter (which he didn't have to do)

Lucic would have incurred the brain trauma that any other longterm hockey fighter would. Not sure how this is unclear.

Still waiting for those citations of players that have fought in the NHL for a full decade still having careers well into their 30's. Where is that list of such players. it largely doesn't exist.

Usually players just bow out. Its a thing the NHL prefers not get noticed.

Jerome Iginla

It's ridiculous, absolutely ridiculous, to claim you know for a fact that Lucic has incurred dehabilitating brain trauma to the extent that his career is almost over.

 

[Replacement*]

Jerome Iginla comes to mind as a player who has remained extremely effective and had dropped the mitts more than a few times.

Fair comment. Theres one. I do appreciate the response. I won't discount that Jarome appears to have survived without deleterious effect on performance. Good example.

 

[DisgruntledGoat*]

Lol!

A rookie tough guy squaring off against a veteran tough guy was once regarded as "ridiculous"???

I sometimes honestly wonder if you even watch the game. That has literally been happening on a regular basis for decades.

Not to mention that Lucic obviously took it easy on Nurse. And much commentary at the time was about that very fact.

It was very much a case of, 'are you sure about this, kid?'

 

[Replacement*]

I was just going to say something like this. Even if Lucic never fought, he would still be a premier power forward. This is a guy who has been a consistent 20-30 goal, 50-60 point guy throught his career. Basically Eberle numbers to go along with the toughness, net presence and ability to win puck battles.

It seems like Replacement has more of an issue with fighting in general than Lucic as an overall player.

I have an issue with fighting more due to the known brain damage impacts of fighting. Fighting is not a part of hockey and need not be a part of hockey. This is known news to the NHL now for well over a decade. With multiple lawsuits ensuing.

 

[Ol' Jase]

Fair comment. Theres one. I do appreciate the response. I won't discount that Jarome appears to have survived without deleterious effect on performance. Good example.

Look, I can see if it's a case that Lucic's game has fallen off the map. It simply hasn't. This is by all measurements an extremely effective player who brings a skill set and playing style this team is screaming for.

 

[CupofOil]

I have an issue with fighting more due to the known brain damage impacts of fighting. Fighting is not a part of hockey and need not be a part of hockey. This is known news to the NHL now for well over a decade. With multiple lawsuits ensuing.

No argument there.
I still remember McIntyre ending Ivanas (don't remember the spelling) career in the Eberle 1st goal game. It got a rousing cheer and I was among them but I felt really bad for the young man who got his face caved in. Then again, he knew what he signed up for.'

I cringe when I see crippling blows to the head but that's another argument for another thread.

 

[Replacement*]

Jerome Iginla

It's ridiculous, absolutely ridiculous, to claim you know for a fact that Lucic has incurred dehabilitating brain trauma to the extent that his career is almost over.

I've couched the discussion largely in probability and likelihood. Which is why you can see those terms used frequently by myself in this discussion.

I thanked you for Jarome Iginla, but is that the exception rather than the rule. The premise that Lucic could be impacted by his fighting, hitting, mileage, is far from ridiculous, its couched in probability that he is impacted.

 

[Spawn]

I'm not sure on Lucic. But there is something funny about the fact that for two straight years LA has traded their first rounder for a player, and for two straight years they might end up signing in Edmonton when they can lol. Sekera last year, and maybe Lucic this year.

 

[MessierII]

Certainly he's not a goon first and foremost. But he's somebody that has been tagged by countless vicious headshots while taking on the role of an NHL hockey fighter (which he didn't have to do)

Lucic would have incurred the brain trauma that any other longterm hockey fighter would. Not sure how this is unclear.

Still waiting for those citations of players that have fought in the NHL for a full decade still having careers well into their 30's. Where is that list of such players. it largely doesn't exist.

Usually players just bow out. Its a thing the NHL prefers not get noticed.

Mark Messier

 

[Replacement*]

I'm not sure on Lucic. But there is something funny about the fact that for two straight years LA has traded their first rounder for a player, and for two straight years they might end up signing in Edmonton when they can lol. Sekera last year, and maybe Lucic this year.

Sekera not confusing at all. He was signed to try to patch leaks on back end and didn't do that, the club missed the playoffs, sekera wasn't much in LA. Not much different than here.

Lucic was at least a reasonable player for LA. But not contractually worth it at this point.

 

[Spawn]

Sekera not confusing at all. He was signed to try to patch leaks on back end and didn't do that, the club missed the playoffs, sekera wasn't much in LA. Not much different than here.

Lucic was at least a reasonable player for LA. But not contractually worth it at this point.

Didn't say confusing. Said funny.

 

[Replacement*]

Mark Messier

ftr I intentionally stated present day repeatedly. Hockey fighting is even far worse in recent decades than it was in the 80's. Mess wasn't squaring off with steroidal freaks training in the gym for a decade just to fight. The size of players and the pure psi pressure they can apply to the head has steadily increased.

The human brains ability to absorb the increased punching power of present day hockey pugilists does not increase. That is one reason why tragedy has escalated exponentially in this regard.

That said there have been grievous injures through hockey fighting for countless decades. Just much more common, and debilitating effect in last couple decades.

 

[Ol' Jase]

Brenden Shannahan, Rick Tocchet, Wendel Clark.

All payers that fought regularly way past 28 years old.

All faired pretty well.

 

[Replacement*]

Didn't say confusing. Said funny.

Lombardi losing his touch? probable

Theres a shelflife for most managers.

 

[Replacement*]

Brenden Shannahan, Rick Tocchet, Wendel Clark.

These are older examples. See my previous reply that hockey fighting has become worse in recent decades. Its not the same. As mentioned the punching power of present day hockey pugilsts increased.

 

[psowrc]

I've couched the discussion largely in probability and likelihood. Which is why you can see those terms used frequently by myself in this discussion.

I thanked you for Jarome Iginla, but is that the exception rather than the rule. The premise that Lucic could be impacted by his fighting, hitting, mileage, is far from ridiculous, its couched in probability that he is impacted.

First bolded is opinion and has no factual basis in respect to Lucic; a poster is commended for providing an example of a contradiction to your opinion, then we are provided with the claim that obviously the original opinion was truth "just because".

There is no factual basis at this time that Lucic has experienced any impact from his style of play. To claim knowledge that he has is ridiculous.

 

[MessierII]

These are older examples. See my previous reply that hockey fighting has become worse in recent decades. Its not the same. As mentioned the punching power of present day hockey pugilsts increased.

What is any of this based off? Was there some jump in human evolution the past 20 years?

 

[oilers9799]

Lucic is actually incredibly durable for a player of his style. He has played more than 72 games in all of his NHL seasons except 2. One which was the lockout and he played in 46 of 48 games.

 

[Tarus]

What is any of this based off? Was there some jump in human evolution the past 20 years?

Drugs, improved fitness, stronger players, improved technique... it's a reasonable to assume the players are hitting harder now compared to 30 years ago.

It's not all that reasonable to assume Lucic is taking undue punishment from fights as a result though. He fights maybe 3 - 5 times a season, his highest number of fights in a year this decade being 7 in 2013/14. His fights per season numbers actually compare favorably with other enduring power forwards like Shanahan and Iginla

 

[slaman]

Replacement has recently watched the movie Concussion.

Having said that, I tend to question the wisdom of signing a player like this to term. Very few players with his style had that long a shelf life as an effective player.

Replacement, is Lucics number of fights advisor really that drastically different from other similar PWFs?

 

[thadd]

6X6 means 1-2 years of this contract won't be all that palatable. That's not that bad considering his a UFA

 

[Replacement*]

Shanahan is a somewhat curious citation. Nobody that's been in the NHL's head office is more deadest against fighting and that it should be out of the game. With Brendan fully aware of the effects.

http://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2016/3/...ad-hits-concussions-shanahan-bettman-campbell

 

[Up the Irons]

Certainly he's not a goon first and foremost. But he's somebody that has been tagged by countless vicious headshots while taking on the role of an NHL hockey fighter (which he didn't have to do)

Lucic would have incurred the brain trauma that any other longterm hockey fighter would. Not sure how this is unclear.

Still waiting for those citations of players that have fought in the NHL for a full decade still having careers well into their 30's. Where is that list of such players. it largely doesn't exist.

Usually players just bow out. Its a thing the NHL prefers not get noticed.

Countless visious headshots? Does he get into 5 fights a year? Does he receive 1 good shot in say every other fight? U keep calling him a pugilist. He isn't. Hes a PF that fight sometimes.

I bet the number visious blows he's received are countable and I bet its under 20. U dont "know" he has PCS.

Really Rep, u r really reaching on this one. Even for you.