Do you think this team is better or worse going into next season?

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

And I'm not just talking about the roster either I'm including the coaching staff.

Personally I think overall this team got better.

I think this team is better behind the bench and I don't think it's close, I'll take Berube over Sheldon Keefe any day, one guy is a winner, the other talks about respect in the handshake line.

I'll take Lane Lambert as an assistant another guy that's won.

I'll take Marc Savard as a PP coach, over Manny Malhotra and Guy Boucer, 2 guys that have never been on a PP, yet for some reason were qualified to coach the PP, Boucher was especially odd because he's a defensive coach, he should have been coaching the PK.

I also think they are better on defense. I'll take Tanev, OEL and potentially Hakanpaa over Brodie and Boosh, defense is where I think they improved the most with or without Hakanpaa.

Stolarz to me is definitely an upgrade over Samsonov, Stolarz would have to deliberately try hard to be as bad as Samsonov was, and even if he did try, I don't think he could actually do it.

The offense is where I sex people saying they got worse and I don't see it.

yes I would have liked to have kept Bertuzzi, but you Knies, Robertson and Bobby Mac and they scored 14, 15, and 15 goals, Bobby Mac and Robertson did it in 56 games.

Assuming all 3 come out of camp healthy, I don't think 20 goals is a stretch for any of them.

Plus you got Cowan and Minten coming up through the system, I'm just not worried about losing Bertuzzi, he scored 21 goals they have enough to cover that, I mean Jarnkrok if he's healthy will probably bag 15 goals too.

I'm just not worried about losing Bertuzzi.

So yeah I think they are better overall I think they probably finish between 112-116 points that's 10-14 more than last year.

Click to read more...

 

[conFABulator]

It's a good question. Many will want to compare this team to the one that finished the season last year. I don't think that is reasonable because we haven't had a TDL yet. So, beginning of last season vs what we have now?

Yes, I think we are improved and I think you detailed the reasons why. To summarize.

• Coaching should be an improvement. Just a change in coaching should bring improvement, even if you are not sure the new guys are better
• Goaltending is improved. Woll is a year older, Stolarz has to be better than Sammy and I am intrigued by Murray. Hildeby is a year older too.
• Our D might be the best we have had in the Matthews era. Not only did we add some of the top guys available, we seem to have balance in RD/LD, puck movers and stay at homers, and we have pairings that seem to work.
• Our F are fine. We were second top scoring team in the league last year and lost a 21-goal guy. We can absorb that from growth from Knies, McMann, Robertson, and Holmberg (plus the D)
• Our PP and PK look to be improved, the PK for sure.
• We have depth in the form of kids knocking at the door and hungry...Cowan, Minten, Grebenkin, Hirvonen, Tverberg, Niemela, Webber, Hildeby. All of these guys could see time this year.

How are we possibly worse? Tavares a year older? Bertuzzi gone?

I don't see it

 

[Sypher04]

To be blunt, anyone who chooses worse doesn’t know anything about hockey

 

[francis246]

Team will be better, I think coaching will make a difference. Our defensive core is more mobile and will actually hopefully provide more offense. The team will be younger so hopefully the influx of youth will provide nice energy and depth scoring. We need guys like McMann, Robertson, Knies, Cowan or Greb possibly to take big steps.

 

[notbias]

To be blunt, anyone who chooses worse doesn’t know anything about hockey

The team is the same.

We have a few gambles on D and in net that we hope pay off.

I don't see how we got worse, but the amount we got better is debatable.

How long does Tanev keep playing well?

Does OEL look good when he is not sheltered?

Can Woll stay healthy?

Can Stolarz play more than 25 games?

On paper, for sure it is better, we made some idiotic signings last year (Klingberg) and in hindsight, some of the signings look worse (Bertuzzi and Samsanov), but there are still question marks on this team and they are largely the same team as the year before.

 

[Sypher04]

The team is the same.

We have a few gambles on D and in net that we hope pay off.

I don't see how we got worse, but the amount we got better is debatable.

How long does Tanev keep playing well?

Does OEL look good when he is not sheltered?

Can Woll stay healthy?

Can Stolarz play more than 25 games?

On paper, for sure it is better, we made some idiotic signings last year (Klingberg) and in hindsight, some of the signings look worse (Bertuzzi and Samsanov), but there are still question marks on this team and they are largely the same team as the year before.

There are of course some questions yet to see how they play out. But as you’ve illuded to yourself with this post, our floor for next season (assuming no more adds) is probably slightly better than last season, with potential to be quite a bit better.

Tanev has shown no signs of regression in his game, so until we’re given a reason to be concerned I don’t know why we would be.

OEL was not sheltered last year for a large chunk of the season and was fine. Not only was he fine, he also had his best production during this time. I don’t see this is an issue.

Goaltending is the biggest question mark, but not bigger than what transpired last year imo. Samsonov was trash. A lot will depend on Stolarz, I’m really interested to see what he can do with an increased role. He’s got the size and the tools, maybe all he’s needed is opportunity. I look at a guy like Adin Hill.

 

[notbias]

There are of course some questions yet to see how they play out. But as you’ve illuded to yourself with this point, our floor for next season (assuming no more adds) is probably slightly better than last season, with potential to be quite a bit better.

Coaching is a question mark.

I assume they get a bounce there, but Berube isn't Bowman, and it isn't like Keefe struggled in the regular season.

There is a potential that the season will be worse than last, even if it is small.

Tanev has shown no signs of regression in his game, so until we’re given a reason to be concerned I don’t know why we would be.

Brodie fell off hard while being younger.

Not sure we will get a bunch of signs before a 35 year old starts to play worse.

He may age like Gio though, who knows.

OEL was not sheltered last year for a large chunk of the season and was fine. I don’t see this is an issue.

Throw him top pairing, let's relive the glory days.

Liljegren can be his partner, he had moments where he wasn't sheltered and looked great too.

Goaltending is the biggest question mark, but not bigger than what transpired last year imo. Samsonov was trash. A lot will depend on Stolarz, I’m really interested to see what he can do with an increased role. He’s got the size and the tools, maybe all he’s needed is opportunity.

Samsanov was terrible, I agree, a terrible signing by Treliving, but it was only terrible with hindsight.

If you want to look at the team with hindsight vs none, then yes, there were too many flops last year.

With hindsight, it is hard to do worse than Treliving did last year. Without hindsight, they are very similar teams with better D and worse forwards.

Basically, Treliving made the team so much worse last year, that yes, it will be hard to be that bad again with the talent the team has.

 

[Sypher04]

Coaching is a question mark.

I assume they get a bounce there, but Berube isn't Bowman, and it isn't like Keefe struggled in the regular season.

There is a potential that the season will be worse than last, even if it is small.

Sure until we see the coaching in action it’s a question mark, but I think it’s reasonable to think fresh ideas and a different approach can help us take the next step.

Brodie fell off hard while being younger.

Not sure we will get a bunch of signs before a 35 year old starts to play worse.

He may age like Gio though, who knows.

I think Brodie’s year last year was more due to his mental state/his personal life than his physical abilities. Would not at all be shocked if he bounces back. Not a gamble we could take, but a good bet for Chicago

Throw him top pairing, let's relive the glory days.

Liljegren can be his partner, he had moments where he wasn't sheltered and looked great too.

Let’s not act like it was a small sample. It was over 2 months. And I’m not suggesting giving him anything more than what he showed he was capable of handling, like top pairing would be.

 

[notbias]

Sure until we see the coaching in action it’s a question mark, but I think it’s reasonable to think fresh ideas and a different approach can help us take the next step.

It can also hurt us.

I am not sure Berube is considered a good coach.

We will see how his style meshes with the group.

I think Brodie’s year last year was more due to his mental state/his personal life than his physical abilities.

I agree, but when you are 35, the clock is ticking, so whenever it happens for Tanev, it may happen quickly.

Let’s not act like it was a small sample. It was over 2 months. And I’m not suggesting giving him anything more than what he showed he was capable of handling, like top pairing would be.

He did such a good job they demoted him back to the 5th D and sheltered him.

I am not saying he is not capable, but pretending like he will step into top 4 role and be good is a little too optimistic for me.

 

[Sypher04]

He did such a good job they demoted him back to the 5th D and sheltered him.

I am not saying he is not capable, but pretending like he will step into top 4 role and be good is a little too optimistic for me.

Him playing 3rd pair doesn’t mean they had any issue whatsoever with the job he did in the top 4. It speaks more to the quality of their defense and who was coming back. I don’t think it makes sense to hold it against him that Montour, Ekblad, Forsling and Mikkola were all ahead of him. They put him back where they needed him.

And most third pairs get sheltered by virtue of the two better pairs taking the tough matchups, so that’s not really a legitimate criticism on your part.

 

[notbias]

Him playing 3rd pair doesn’t mean they had any issue whatsoever with the job he did in the top 4. It speaks more to the quality of their defense and who was coming back. I don’t think it makes sense to hold it against him that Montour, Ekblad, Forsling and Mikkola were all ahead of him. They put him back where they needed him.

He got easy minutes, not sure there is much to go back and forth on.

In the playoffs when he had easy minutes his numbers were great, but during the regular season his numbers were decent.

We will see, it's a gamble at the term.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Didn't vote because I really don't know. Finding the right chemistry to build a winning team is like hitting the lottery. There are zero guarantees and from I've seen over the years weaker cores can catch lightning in a bottle with the right formula and especially a hot goalie at the right times. ./shrug, we'll see I guess.

 

[Sypher04]

Didn't vote because I really don't know. Finding the right chemistry to build a winning team is like hitting the lottery. There are zero guarantees and from I've seen over the years weaker cores can catch lightning in a bottle with the right formula and especially a hot goalie at the right times. ./shrug, we'll see I guess.

Fair but you don’t have to win the cup to have been better, even if that’s obviously the goal.

He got easy minutes, not sure there is much to go back and forth on.

In the playoffs when he had easy minutes his numbers were great, but during the regular season his numbers were decent.

We will see, it's a gamble at the term.

Eh, not really. Even if OEL is nothing but a really good bottom pair defenseman, at a 100M cap in probably 2, 3 years max, his salary will be good third pairing money.

Hell it arguably already borderline is based on the contacts given out to guys like Lyubushkin and Edmundson and others, who are not as good as OEL

Sure, he got easy minutes, except when he got sustained tough minutes for a third of the season and did well in them..

 

[notbias]

Eh, not really. Even if OEL is nothing but a really good bottom pair defenseman, at a 100M cap in probably 2, 3 years max, his salary will be good third pairing money.

That is not the current cap nor is it the projected cap at any point during his contract.

Hell it arguably is already based on the contact given out to guys like Lyubushkin and Edmundson and others

Other bad contracts don't make this contract good, OEL's play will dictate that.

Also he got easy minutes, except when he played tough minutes and did well in them..

He got tough minutes in the regular season and was fine, not good.

 

[Sypher04]

That is not the current cap nor is it the projected cap at any point during his contract.



Other bad contracts don't make this contract good, OEL's play will dictate that.



He got tough minutes in the regular season and was fine, not good.

Good thing he’s probably a top 4 defenseman then and if his play slides in a year or two we are still fine.

Also bs that’s $100M isn’t projected within his contract term. This was already the talk before they moved their money pit out of Arizona. 3 years, tops.

Call them bad contracts fine, I guess, but these bigger third pair salaries are going to become more the norm.

No, he was good. Talk to Florida fans who actually watched him

 

[notbias]

Good thing he’s probably a top 4 defenseman then and if his play slides in a year or two we are still fine.

Probably = gamble.

Also bs that’s $100M isn’t projected within his contract term.

Can you show me that the cap is expected to rise to $100 million?

For the majority of his contract, it won't be that.

Call them bad contracts fine, I guess, but these bigger third pair salaries are going to become more the norm.

They currently aren't.

No, he was good. Talk to Florida fans who actually watched him

Okay, will go talk to Florida fans.

 

[LeafGrief]

The roster has shuffled a bit, but that's mostly window trimmings. A healthy Muzzin and Brodie a few years ago didn't get us anywhere in the playoffs, so while i'm pleased with Tanev and OEL, I don't know that the needle's moved. We're expecting a kid with what, 42 NHL games, to carry the load for us in net? Shoestring budgets and hope in net yet again. Matthews isn't going to score 70 every year, JT is getting older, Nylander had a career year last year, and I worry that Marner is just going to have a full on mental breakdown at some point. There's not much forward depth, not unless Knies, McMann, and Robertson turn into the three musketeers.

We've changed the coach and shuffled the deck chairs since last year. I said last offseason that this team was a house of cards waiting to collapse from core dysfunction, and while I think that Berube will help prevent that, I just don't see us as meaningfully better in any ways, with much potential for being worse. If Matthews has a 40g type of year and Woll has growing pains, we're worse.

 

[Niagara Bill]

Our D has the chance to be much improved.
Goaltending is no worse than last year...wait and see if Woll can play 45 games.
Coaching can potentially have an impact on our forwards. We are likely a year away before you g players are ready to make a good impact. Can McMann play 75 games?
Will Knies continue upward trend.
There are no players in bottom 6 capable of real top 6 potential.
There is no room for Steeves etc from Marlies to have a chance. There must be a package of guys that can be used to trade for impact player. If Kampf plays like last year he must go at 2.4m. Cowan and Minten cannot make this team. Not one young player will be given an opportunity. Too many mediocre vets.
Here's hoping Berubè can be a positive impact.

 

[Gary Nylund]

The team is the same.

We have a few gambles on D and in net that we hope pay off.

I don't see how we got worse, but the amount we got better is debatable.

How long does Tanev keep playing well?

Does OEL look good when he is not sheltered?

Can Woll stay healthy?

Can Stolarz play more than 25 games?

On paper, for sure it is better, we made some idiotic signings last year (Klingberg) and in hindsight, some of the signings look worse (Bertuzzi and Samsanov), but there are still question marks on this team and they are largely the same team as the year before.

Seems like a pretty good summary. I feel like we probably got a bit better in the short term. Long term however, that Tanev contract could be a big problem so better win the cup in the short term I guess.

 

[Nineteen67]

The same.
Coaching cannot be worse, the PP cannot be worse. Under Dubas/Keefe they never dictated the outcome, it was always the opposition that determined who won. We will see if Berube changes the mindset.

It feels like they want to stay on this plateau for a year or two before either climbing another level or falling off.

Let’s not forget the elephant in the room- are the core players capable of winning together? Superstars in the regular season and all star game, but just guys in the playoffs.

 

[Bomber0104]

A lot of this depends on how much Berube can impact the core-4's overall mindset, but I feel much better about the defence, goaltending and overall culture this year.

 

[Americanadian]

I have them projected at 101 points with 60 games combined between Woll and Stolarz. if Woll/Stolarz combine for 82 that's an additional 4 points. If Robertson plays over Reaves full time that's an additional 4 points.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Seems like a pretty good summary. I feel like we probably got a bit better in the short term. Long term however, that Tanev contract could be a big problem so better win the cup in the short term I guess.

Weather you like the contract or not It's quite clearly not about the long term.

With the potential exception of Woll, and that will depend on him, none of the signings were about the long term.

In fact I'd go as far as to say, as long as Matthews is here VERY few, and possibly none of any upcoming moves are about long term.

I'd bet my bottom dollar that EVERY move made for the next 4 years will be about winning a Stanley cup NOW.

Even if say Jarnkrok got traded for a 3rd and 4th, those picks would be nothing more than deadline currency just like that Florida 2025 2nd is.

Like it or not Leafs are not thinking long term

I have them projected at 101 points with 60 games combined between Woll and Stolarz. if Woll/Stolarz combine for 82 that's an additional 4 points. If Robertson plays over Reaves full time that's an additional 4 points.

How did you come up with that?

 

[Suntouchable13]

Meh, the core 4 drive the bus and we know where this bus is going come April. So whatever, at least this is the final season of this madness. The additions + Berube are not going to do anything.

 

[Evilhomer]

It's again easily a 100+ point team in the regular season. That's about the only sure thing. Like last season, and frankly every prior season, the key for this team will be winning the division (or, even better, the conference) in order to get a more favourable first round opponent.