Do you think that our Johnny plays even more on the wing?

[Dekes For Days]

Spending that much on a Center when you already had a borderline generational first overall 1c and an elite 2C on one of the best contracts in the league is a different story.

Kadri wasn't an elite 2C. He was a 50-60 point center that wasn't very good defensively, wasn't very good on faceoffs, and had repeated discipline issues.
And our entire center depth in pretty much the whole organization top to bottom was Matthews, Kadri, and Gauthier.
Defense was our biggest need for the NHL team (which was also addressed that year with Muzzin), but from an organizational depth perspective, we were weakest at C.

 

[WillyC]

That's what you want to see.

Your $11M second line centre become an $11M second line winger. If that's not admitting it was a bad signing I don't know what is.

Optics are everything.

And putting Tavares as second line winger after he has already been reduced to a second line centre does not look good no matter what angle it's viewed from.

Tavares was the big UFA signing. The guy that was going to put this team over the top. His leadership has been questioned for years.

Bringing in guys like O'Reilly, Thornton, and Giordano to provide leadership because this team can't get past the first round of the playoffs further undermines his role as captain.

It's not a good look.

JT is 2nd line center because we have Auston Matthews… you do know Matthews causes that and not Tavares?

JT playing on the wing with ROR is temporary, to ease ROR onto the team playing with a couple familiar guys.

JT has been an excellent leader on and off the ice… since he was 15.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

If Keefe doesn't use ROR as a 3rd line center then this deadline acquisition is a failure. The Leafs need to make matchups difficult for other teams. Putting ROR on the 2nd line for situational things is fine, but not night in and night out regular shifts with Tavares/Marner.

I hope that Dubas isn't done acquiring players. He still needs to improve the top 6 LW and needs to add another defenseman.

 

[Guided by Veseys]

Kadri wasn't an elite 2C. He was a 50-60 point center that wasn't very good defensively, wasn't very good on faceoffs, and had repeated discipline issues.
And our entire center depth in pretty much the whole organization top to bottom was Matthews, Kadri, and Gauthier.
Defense was our biggest need for the NHL team (which was also addressed that year with Muzzin), but from an organizational depth perspective, we were weakest at C.

I remember Zeke posting a chart that statistically showed Kadri as a top 15 C in the league so he definitely was in that elite 2C category (although the main board lost their minds over the chart). His play in Colorado certainly showed that as well. He also had selke votes so above average defensively is probably more likely. No doubt though he had a cloud of uncertainty due to playoff suspensions though but he didn’t have both of those when Tavares was signed.

 

[TMLAM34]

Heading into the playoffs, I think the smart decision would be to have O’Reilly as our third line center. It’ll create a lot of mismatches and make it very difficult for opposing teams to handle three very good lines.

A player who I think would be worth looking into is Hartman. For whatever reason, he’s taken a lot of dumb penalties this year but it’s not really normal for him and it seems like he’s slowly falling out of favour in Minnesota.

He’s signed for another year at 1.7 million. Not the biggest player but he plays with a lot of grit. He’s sound two-way and has a solid shot.

Bunting - Matthews - Nylander
Jarnkrok - Tavares - Marner
Kerfoot - O’Reilly - Hartman
Engvall - Kampf - Acciari

With Aston-Reese, Holmberg and Knies sitting out. That’s a deep forward group.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I remember Zeke posting a chart that statistically showed Kadri as a top 15 C in the league so he definitely was in that elite 2C category (although the main board lost their minds over the chart). His play in Colorado certainly showed that as well. He also had selke votes so above average defensively is probably more likely. No doubt though he had a cloud of uncertainty due to playoff suspensions though but he didn’t have both of those when Tavares was signed.

Through his prime, age 25-28, he was 47th in the league in P/GP among only centers, at a 54 point pace. He was bad defensively by any measure, didn't PK, not great on faceoffs, and had a history of discipline issues that stretched beyond just the playoff suspensions. I'm not sure how to end up at elite 2C out of that.

And regardless of what Kadri was, it doesn't change how starved our organization was of centers outside of him and Matthews. People really underappreciate what Tavares did for this team, because they just think 105 point team + Tavares = god team, without realizing what a mirage that "105 point team" was, and the context of why we hit that point total, what was departing, how things were set up moving forward, and how things that happened afterward affected us. And then when the god team expectations don't materialize, Tavares is blamed for not making a difference, even though he made a pretty significant impact.

Without Tavares, and some really effective management, we were looking at significant and prolonged steps backward from how we were perceived after 2017-2018, instead of the improvements we've seen.

 

[therealkoho]

That is the Shakespeare questionette yall. Does yall think Johnny c tavares plays on the wing a lot, some or not with the irish O'Reilly now? Or not? O'Reilly is not in any way related to the character of O'Reilly in Oz. In no way. Nore Schillinger. I'm talking bout our own tavares and Ryan O'Reilly.

Well! now that that's cleared up, a very deep subjecticle sire if I do say sew mice elf. I think they'll, meaning the manglementive types, will see JT and ROR as being two Krazy katz who is both needing their own litter boxes to do their best shit and can cover it up with just a few sweeps

 

[therealkoho]

Jarnkrok JT MM

McMann ROR Engvall

Kampf Acciari Steeves/Knies

 

[Gary Nylund]

I remember Zeke posting a chart that statistically showed Kadri as a top 15 C in the league so he definitely was in that elite 2C category (although the main board lost their minds over the chart). His play in Colorado certainly showed that as well. He also had selke votes so above average defensively is probably more likely. No doubt though he had a cloud of uncertainty due to playoff suspensions though but he didn’t have both of those when Tavares was signed.

Even more interesting were the charts showing Kerfoot>Kadri.

JT is 2nd line center because we have Auston Matthews… you do know Matthews causes that and not Tavares?

JT playing on the wing with ROR is temporary, to ease ROR onto the team playing with a couple familiar guys.

JT has been an excellent leader on and off the ice… since he was 15.

Great post! JT's played very well for us, exactly as advertised and I hope you're right about ROR - I think he's best utilized by us driving our 3rd line.

 

[ACC1224]

I remember Zeke posting a chart that statistically showed Kadri as a top 15 C in the league so he definitely was in that elite 2C category (although the main board lost their minds over the chart). His play in Colorado certainly showed that as well. He also had selke votes so above average defensively is probably more likely. No doubt though he had a cloud of uncertainty due to playoff suspensions though but he didn’t have both of those when Tavares was signed.

Kadri was another one of those that was always shown to be a phenomenal talent while here and then immediately became a bum as soon as he was traded.
Even more remarkable was the players he was traded for then became the new phenoms.
Some members here are very consistent (and predictable) in their evaluations.

 

[BayStBullies]

I don't think the last lineup attempted worked at all. They need to figure out what style of play that second line serves. Either one of ROR or Tavares should move to the 3rd, or you need to remove Marner. Marner is wasted on a line that will be crashing the net.

I wouldn't give up yet on the hope of having two stacked lines. I would just shuffle things around to split Tavares and ROR up.

I'd like to see:
Tavares - Matthews - Marner
Bunting - ROR - Nylander

Ultimately, you likely split them across 3 lines.

 

[banks]

Apparently Tavares is going to be used on the wing for a significant stretch here. link Keefe said they'll "stay with it for a while here."

I think that makes a ton of sense. Get Tavares used to playing on ROR or Matthews' wing, because you know it's going to happen in the playoffs at some point. They'll use that combo to shorten the bench if they're trailing in the 3rd. So get the options tested out. Find out if Tavares works better with unit 1 or 2. Get ROR's confidence up with the new team.

There's still a lot of hockey in the regular season. Use every game to try out playoff options and get players experience at every job they might be asked to do.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Apparently Tavares is going to be used on the wing for a significant stretch here. link Keefe said they'll "stay with it for a while here."

I think that makes a ton of sense. Get Tavares used to playing on ROR or Matthews' wing, because you know it's going to happen in the playoffs at some point. They'll use that combo to shorten the bench if they're trailing in the 3rd. So get the options tested out. Find out if Tavares works better with unit 1 or 2. Get ROR's confidence up with the new team.

There's still a lot of hockey in the regular season. Use every game to try out playoff options and get players experience at every job they might be asked to do.

It could have occurred last year but we have no CENTRE depth .. can't line up in playoffs with JT at C on any line except 4th and no way he slots down that low .. my guess he slots on 3rd line in playoffs on LW

 

[LeafalCrusader]

If you are insistent on Tavares on LW why not swap Marner and Nylander.

Bunting Matthews Marner
Tavares ROR Nylander

Nylander would work better on the cycle line than Marner who could then move back with Matthews.

 

[Tak7]

I don't think the experiment lasts longer than 2 or 3 weeks, max - and even that is just because their schedule is so light.

The stop/start nature of the winger position has me really worried for Tavares' footspeed & agility. I don't think it'll work.

 

[TheScandal89]

I haven't liked Tavares on the wing, but it could be because he hasnt really played it. Kind of an odd shift mid season, but I think eventually he will have to play wing to prolong his career like Stamkos and others have done.

With that said I would prefer Matthews-Tavares-O'Reilly-Kampf down the middle. Especially once Knies can join the team. Kinda hoping his school gets upset early so he can come before the playoffs, especially if he isn't ready and we put him out there anyway like we did with Robertson in the Colombus covid series.

 

[saffronleaf]

hopefully

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

JT is 2nd line center because we have Auston Matthews… you do know Matthews causes that and not Tavares?

JT playing on the wing with ROR is temporary, to ease ROR onto the team playing with a couple familiar guys.

JT has been an excellent leader on and off the ice… since he was 15.

Apparently it is not temporary:

mapleleafsinsider . com/Sheldon-Keefe-reveals-that-his-plan-is-to-keep-Tavares-on-the-wing-permanently-211014

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Tavares was only 2nd line center because we have the reigning MVP in the 1st line center spot, and he's only temporarily playing on wing because we acquired another top tier player that's used to playing center, who hadn't even had a practice yet. It says nothing about Tavares' abilities or his signing. He's a top tier center that's brought a lot of value and impact to this team.

Tavares' leadership has never been questioned. He's been praised by everybody in hockey his whole career. Bringing in additional character individuals does not undermine his role as captain or suggest anything about his leadership. All teams like players with good leadership and character, and will try to acquire as much of it as possible.

So what you are basically saying is that Tavares is overpaid? I mean, he gets almost the same as Matthews to be a second line winger. Matthews is a number one centre.

I'm so confused.

Tavares was 2C because Matthews was 1C. Even though they both get paid the same. Now Tavares is 2LW because O'Reilly is 2C. So if O'Reilly is better as 2C, and earns less than Tavares, and Matthews is 1C and earning the same as Tavares, then Tavares at $11M seems a little rich.

But yeah, you might be right.

The guy that has led his team past the first round once in his entire career and has been reduced to 2LW on his current team has never had his leadership questioned.

What was I thinking?

 

[Antropovsky]

I recwbtly rewatched the highlights from all the critical last few games vs Tampa and Montreal. Marner/matthews were on the ice for pretty much all the game tying and winning goals against. Though Tavares was injured vs Montreal I was surprised that he wasn't on the ice for critical goals against vs tampa, and wasn't even shown in a highlight for a key save against. He was also in numerous highlights for scoring chances and scores and assisted on key goals in games 5-7.

If both Marner and Matthew were on the ice for key goals against and have struggle in the critical games.. I'm not sure why Keefe is putting O'Reilly and Tavares on the same unit. Why not split the two and give Marner and Matthews strong two-way skilled gritty players?

I thought Marner was the smartest player in the league? Why put the three smartest players on the same line and risk having Matthews line be sieves?

 

[Nhlpowerweek]

Apparently it is not temporary:

mapleleafsinsider . com/Sheldon-Keefe-reveals-that-his-plan-is-to-keep-Tavares-on-the-wing-permanently-211014

PERMANENT!!! PERMANENT!!!! HAIR!!! HAIR!!!!! I also put a long message to the hosts of yahoo, so they will change tavares's position ability to lw/c. Yall can thank me later alligator. Now, back to the garbage cans. My other buddie has found some real cool chicken and Meat thurr right at the offices.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

PERMANENT!!! PERMANENT!!!! HAIR!!! HAIR!!!!! I also put a long message to the hosts of yahoo, so they will change tavares's position ability to lw/c. Yall can thank me later alligator. Now, back to the garbage cans. My other buddie has found some real cool chicken and Meat thurr right at the offices.

From a Luke Fox tweet:

“I still feel at the end of the day we’re going to have John back at centre.” -Sheldon Keefe

It appears Sheldon Keefe is covering all his bases. Next he'll be telling us that Tavares will be playing defense.

Good Lord.

Is it really that hard to figure out what to do with your $11M captain?

 

[Petrus]

Apparently it is not temporary:

mapleleafsinsider . com/Sheldon-Keefe-reveals-that-his-plan-is-to-keep-Tavares-on-the-wing-permanently-211014

I need to find the interview but I was listening to it on TSN 1050.

Although Keefe said it is “not a one off” Keefe explained that he wanted to make sure sure ROR transitions and gets a good comfort level (something to that effect).

My interpretation is that Keefe was trying establish some stability first so that Keefe can tinker with it later and look at other options.

It didn’t sound permanent to me. If anything Keefe sounded it like he wants his lines to be more flexible depending on what is needed.

 

[Dekes For Days]

So what you are basically saying is that Tavares is overpaid?
I mean, he gets almost the same as Matthews to be a second line winger. Matthews is a number one centre.

No, that's not what's being said. What matters is the impact he provides, not what specific place in the lineup he's currently slotted in. Tavares shifting to wing for now because we're overloaded with centers and we want our new additions to transition comfortably doesn't change anything.
Also your attempts to compare different types of contracts and how you seem to think contracts work is horribly wrong.
And Tavares' leadership has always been praised, and there's been zero reason to question it.

 

[ACC1224]

I need to find the interview but I was listening to it on TSN 1050.

Although Keefe said it is “not a one off” Keefe explained that he wanted to make sure sure ROR transitions and gets a good comfort level (something to that effect).

My interpretation is that Keefe was trying establish some stability first so that Keefe can tinker with it later and look at other options.

It didn’t sound permanent to me. If anything Keefe sounded it like he wants his lines to be more flexible depending on what is needed.

The bolded really shouldn't need explaining.