Do you consider Auston Matthews a Top-5 Center heading into next year?

[wetcoast]

McDavid
Mackinnon
Bergeron
Crosby

The above 4 are clearly better imo. Then you have guys who're on the same tier as Matthews that I think one could argue as being better (like Eichel).

Bergeron , as great as he is, has spent considerable time in the press box injured in the last 3 years so no you can't include him.

The 2 M's sure but Crosby better than Matthews going into next season is an iffy proposition with father time and Austin is really becoming a more complete impact player as well.

 

[Mitch nylander]

You forgot Matthews, but otherwise I agree. He's in that group where you could pick a ton of different combinations to fill out the ranking.

Look at the bolded in my post lol.

But well said.

 

[NyQuil]

I can't really say I get the Pettersson hype.

3 points on 3 goals so far tonight.

With 16 points on this run, he's only 3 back of Matthews' career playoff numbers.

 

[LeafsNation75]

3 points on 3 goals tonight.

With 16 points on this run, he's only 3 back of Matthews' career playoff numbers.

Whatever amount of points Pettersson gets get an asterisk because he had 4 points against Minnesota in the qualifying round and those should not have counted as playoff stats for 2020.

 

[Pyrophorus]

McDavid
Draisaitl
MacK
Crosby
Malkin

No.

Outproduced Malkin in the past 2 years.

 

[BCNate]

Whatever amount of points Pettersson gets get an asterisk because he had 4 points against Minnesota in the qualifying round and those should not have counted as playoff stats for 2020.

Cool. He has 12 points in 8 games if you want to go that route. He will have more points very soon.

 

[BostonBob]

On the Leafs......yeah Matthews is definitely a top 5 Center.

 

[TDK67]

Re: Matthews vs Drai...

When all is said and done in 10/15/20 years, I think it's much more likely than not, that Matthews has 2 or 3 times as many Rocket Richard Trophies as Drai has Art Ross Trophies (i.e. 5-6 Rockets vs 2 Art Ross trophies...or something like that). They might be equal in Hart/Ross Trophies or maybe Drai has one more of those vs Matthews, but I think AM will end up in the prolific/historic goal scorer tier (no, not at Ovi's level. Ovi is arguably the GOAT of goal scorers). You can search through my created thread history to find one where I dive into AM's numbers to try and support this theory (long story short, AM's career goal scoring rate both at 5v5 and ALL SIT is head and shoulders above his peer group) but idk how much people care about a deep dive into numbers like that.

That said, I have no idea how that might influence the perception of who is/was better during their careers, but I'd put solid money on the trophy cases looking like that.

 

[Rowlet]

I went with no, because he's in that second tier conversation from 5-8 and it's just easier to say no. Definitely top 10, sometimes top 5.

 

[Samsquanch]

Outproduced Malkin in the past 2 years.

Lol, just barely but ok. Malkin scored 7 less points but played like 15 less games...

At Matthews age Malkin had an art ross and a 36pt conn smythe playoff performance under his belt.

Matthews can only dream of having a fraction of the success that Malkin had. He might have lost a step now, but hes still proven he can get the job done time and time again. Thats worth something to a team who wants to go deep.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I can't really say I get the Pettersson hype. Good player yes, but not as good as a top 3 goal scorer in the league who puts up well above point per game production and is also solid two way. I think Quinn Hughes is the real franchise player for the Nucks.

I don't mean this to be funny, but you would if you watch him play. Hockey IQ off the charts, and tough too. They have tried softening him up, but he just plays harder. I Respect that in a player.

 

[Ace of Hades]

Whatever amount of points Pettersson gets get an asterisk because he had 4 points against Minnesota in the qualifying round and those should not have counted as playoff stats for 2020.

This is ridiculous.

The minnesota series was definitely a play off level match up.

Pettersson shown again and again that he is on Matthews tier, and you can argue that he is the better player.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Whatever amount of points Pettersson gets get an asterisk because he had 4 points against Minnesota in the qualifying round and those should not have counted as playoff stats for 2020.

So you don't consider Matthew's 6 points in 5 games this year as counting either since it was only during the play-in round?

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

Whatever amount of points Pettersson gets get an asterisk because he had 4 points against Minnesota in the qualifying round and those should not have counted as playoff stats for 2020.

By that standard, take 6 points off Matthews total then too.

Matthews in 3 years: 13 points

Pettersson in 1 year: 12 points

 

[Papi 4 Hart]

Not this season. Tippett separated them majority of the season. On the PP... Draisaitl takes the draws.

This is actually false. They played a ton of time together this year.

 

[Video Nasty]

Re: Matthews vs Drai...

When all is said and done in 10/15/20 years, I think it's much more likely than not, that Matthews has 2 or 3 times as many Rocket Richard Trophies as Drai has Art Ross Trophies (i.e. 5-6 Rockets vs 2 Art Ross trophies...or something like that). They might be equal in Hart/Ross Trophies or maybe Drai has one more of those vs Matthews, but I think AM will end up in the prolific/historic goal scorer tier (no, not at Ovi's level. Ovi is arguably the GOAT of goal scorers). You can search through my created thread history to find one where I dive into AM's numbers to try and support this theory (long story short, AM's career goal scoring rate both at 5v5 and ALL SIT is head and shoulders above his peer group) but idk how much people care about a deep dive into numbers like that.

That said, I have no idea how that might influence the perception of who is/was better during their careers, but I'd put solid money on the trophy cases looking like that.

Even if that’s the case, so what?

Rockets are not as important as winning Harts/Lindsays/Rosses and Drai already has a head start.

Not convinced yet by career highs of 47 goals/36 assists/80 points that Matthews is winning anything other than a few Rockets as his only significant individual hardware during his career.

I’m not even convinced that he’s hitting 600 goals. Seen too many careers to know that a hot start isn’t a guarantee. Far more talented players like Bure never even hit 500.

 

[JoeThorntonsRooster]

I think everyone knows you're into advanced stats, but having Couturier and O Reilly ahead of Matthews is almost disrespectful, imo. Also, a 35 year old Bergeron over Matthews heading into next year is also questionable to me.

Why bother making a poll asking if Matthews is a top-5 center if you‘re going to whine and call it disrespectful when somebody says he isn’t?

 

[LeafsNation75]

So you don't consider Matthew's 6 points in 5 games this year as counting either since it was only during the play-in round?

By that standard, take 6 points off Matthews total then too.

Matthews in 3 years: 13 points

Pettersson in 1 year: 12 points

If Toronto had advanced and played Tampa Bay, I wouldn't have included them when talking about how many more points he might have had.

 

[LuLover96]

Petey is the type of player to be more sneaky good than dominant. Every once in a while he’ll pull out a move, like his goal on Lehner, out of nothing.

 

[TDK67]

Even if that’s the case, so what?

Rockets are not as important as winning Harts/Lindsays/Rosses and Drai already has a head start.

Not convinced yet by career highs of 47 goals/36 assists/80 points that Matthews is winning anything other than a few Rockets as his only significant individual hardware during his career.

I’m not even convinced that he’s hitting 600 goals. Seen too many careers to know that a hot start isn’t a guarantee. Far more talented players like Bure never even hit 500.

Maybe. I think it depends on what the final tally is. Benn has an Art Ross after all. Does Benn's single Art Ross victory mean he had a better career than Stamkos who won 2 Rockets?

My point was more that I think Matthews is much more likely to be the best goal scorer in the league for multiple years than Drai is to be the best player in the league for multiple years.

And single season numbers is a really narrow/reductive way to try and project an entire career, which is what I'm aiming for.

FWIW Matthews' career G/PG pace is 0.10 G/PG higher than anyone else who has entered the league in the past 10 years. The difference between him and the 2nd best career G/PG (McDavid & Pastrnak tied at 0.46 G/PG) of players drafted in the last decade is equal to the difference between the #2 G/PG and the #19 G/PG.

Like I said, he's scoring goals at a rate that's not remotely close to his peer group. And I think we can dispense with the "hot start" idea when we're looking at a sample size of nearly 300 games.

 

[CanadienShark]

Look at the bolded in my post lol.

But well said.

Oh, I'm just blind.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

If Toronto had advanced and played Tampa Bay, I wouldn't have included them when talking about how many more points he might have had.

Why does it matter whether Toronto advanced or not? Either you think points earned in the play-in rounds count towards someone's playoff stats or they don't.

So in your mind, Matthews had zero playoff points this year?

 

[LeafsNation75]

Why does it matter whether Toronto advanced or not? Either you think points earned in the play-in rounds count towards someone's playoff stats or they don't.

So in your mind, Matthews had zero playoff points this year?

The stats will officially show Matthews had 2 goals, 4 assists and 6 points against Columbus. However I did not consider the play in round to be the actual playoffs.

 

[Killer Orcas]

If Toronto had advanced and played Tampa Bay, I wouldn't have included them when talking about how many more points he might have had.

I can respect that and will add that Matthews has 13 playoff points total in career and Pettersson has 12 in his first playoff year already and counting. Give the kid his due I'm not knocking Matthews but Pettersson is playing unreal these playoffs.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

3 points on 3 goals tonight.

With 16 points on this run, he's only 3 back of Matthews' career playoff numbers.

Matthews is ahead of McDavid's career playoff numbers, but I don't think anyone puts much stock into that