Do the Kings win the cup with Schenn/Simmonds vs Richards/Carter?

[jml87]

This argument is hilarious. How about just looking at the numbers from last years playoffs? The numbers were inflated from that horrible Pens/Flyers series and despite their points, Simmonds was -6 and Schenn was -3. They don't score those points at all without the benefit of the flyers 'all offense, all the time' system. As soon as they ran into a defensive based Devils system, they lost.

For comparison, Richards in two playoff series under two different systems:
2012 Kings: 4g, 15p, +1
2010 Flyers: 7g, 23p, -1

8 extra points but no championship. You are going to score under the Flyers system but that does not equal wins.

The only reason Flyers fans are in love with Simmonds and Schenn right now is cause they are playing well. They anoint them the next flyers superstars, just like they did with Carter and Richards then Giroux and Couturier. Once they come back to earth, they will be considered flops and fans will move on to their next 'stars'. There is a complete lack of patience to let any player just work through their troubles. I've heard talk of trading Couturier and yes, even Giroux despite their amazing play last year. It's small now but if they have a few more seasons of less than superstar quality, they will drop them and move on.

Not all Flyers fans are like this, but a lot are like their owner. Have a bad season? Trade and sign a bunch of new players! That's why their defense and goaltending is always like this with no time to develop and why they have such constant cap troubles.

 

[kingsfan]

^ Funny how some are doing this here now to with Richards when he got off to a poor start. He was referred to as a 3rd liner for a while. I think fans can be fickle regardless of whatever team they are cheering for. Just like those who are claiming DL's terrible for letting Purcell and Moulson walk/be traded, when they themselves never protested it at the time either.

Fans are hard on their teams and/or players/former players.

 

[etherialone]

^ Funny how some are doing this here now to with Richards when he got off to a poor start. He was referred to as a 3rd liner for a while. I think fans can be fickle regardless of whatever team they are cheering for. Just like those who are claiming DL's terrible for letting Purcell and Moulson walk/be traded, when they themselves never protested it at the time either.

Fans are hard on their teams and/or players/former players.

O absolutely agree. (agree with the rest of your post too).

I took heat for griping about MM being allowed to walk. Moulson had it and I still don't understand why he was held back and then allowed to walk but that stuff happens. I hated the Purcell deal and still do but again, they happen. Boyle was a perfect value deal but I would have liked to have held on to him, debatable. I remember being one of few on these guys.

 

[rick3652]

Not sure if this as been asked on here, but I'm curious if anyone believes if Dean had not made either of those trades if the Kings win the cup last season?

It seems like Philadelphia fans are set on the fact that LA would of won last year with Schenn and Simmonds as opposed to Carter and Richards, because they didn't do much to win, I disagree, and I feel like most Kings fans would too, guess it just makes them feel better to think they weren't important pieces?

The answer is NO not in 2012 maybe 8 years from now they may be better but not now.

 

[ScoreZeGoals]

This argument is hilarious. How about just looking at the numbers from last years playoffs? The numbers were inflated from that horrible Pens/Flyers series and despite their points, Simmonds was -6 and Schenn was -3. They don't score those points at all without the benefit of the flyers 'all offense, all the time' system. As soon as they ran into a defensive based Devils system, they lost.

For comparison, Richards in two playoff series under two different systems:
2012 Kings: 4g, 15p, +1
2010 Flyers: 7g, 23p, -1

8 extra points but no championship. You are going to score under the Flyers system but that does not equal wins.

The only reason Flyers fans are in love with Simmonds and Schenn right now is cause they are playing well. They anoint them the next flyers superstars, just like they did with Carter and Richards then Giroux and Couturier. Once they come back to earth, they will be considered flops and fans will move on to their next 'stars'. There is a complete lack of patience to let any player just work through their troubles. I've heard talk of trading Couturier and yes, even Giroux despite their amazing play last year. It's small now but if they have a few more seasons of less than superstar quality, they will drop them and move on.

Not all Flyers fans are like this, but a lot are like their owner. Have a bad season? Trade and sign a bunch of new players! That's why their defense and goaltending is always like this with no time to develop and why they have such constant cap troubles.

The problem I see with quite a few Flyer fans is that they are infatuated with points and little else. Many of them seem to think that the type of production their players put-up in that pond hockey system they play would translate to every other team, and that's simply not true.

 

[kingsfan]

O absolutely agree. (agree with the rest of your post too).

I took heat for griping about MM being allowed to walk. Moulson had it and I still don't understand why he was held back and then allowed to walk but that stuff happens. I hated the Purcell deal and still do but again, they happen. Boyle was a perfect value deal but I would have liked to have held on to him, debatable. I remember being one of few on these guys.

I didn't really have a say on either Moulson or Purcell. In fact, I had stepped away from the game for a few years around teh Moulson time and only started getting involved again (above the level of a casual fan) just a bit before Purcell was dealt, so I didn't have much to say on either.

For Boyle though, I know I was very much in favor of that trade, and still am. Granted, he's done better than I thought he would since going to NYR, but he's nothing special. David Steckel with a bit more offense really. Both players are nice to have on the 3rd/4th line, but nothing to cry over and he wasn't going to fit in under TM.

At this point I'd actually take back Steckel over Boyle, just because Steckel's above average in the faceoff circle.

 

[jml87]

The problem I see with quite a few Flyer fans is that they are infatuated with points and little else. Many of them seem to think that the type of production their players put-up in that pond hockey system they play would translate to every other team, and that's simply not true

True, points and hits. Simmonds is great cause he is a grinder and sometimes a fighter. That's flyers hockey. When fans give an example of why Giroux is awesome, they talk about his massive hit on Crosby in the playoffs last year. Hell, they make T-shirts out of it. Give credit, that hit set the tone for the rest of the game, but then the Devils took down the Flyers easily after that.

And I know a lot of fans gave crap to Richards to begin the year, it was deserved, he had a bad start, but now despite him not scoring a ton of goals, we aren't really hearing that anymore. The most annoying thing for me was defining a player as lazy by their movement on the ice. Carter and even Lupul fell into this category for being taller and having longer strides, making them look they aren't busting it as hard as possible. Richards watches and analyzes the play a lot and that makes him look like he doesn't care. These things are utterly ridiculous. As well as the focus on goals. Yes, even assists aren't good enough most of the time.

 

[YP44]

I miss simmonds but not near as much as I like havng the cup. GO KINGS GO!!

 

[LAKings88]

no, but simmonds and schenn are both good players.

 

[SCARFACE909]

Pretty much expected all of you to say what you have, but was just interested if anyone felt the same. Also I didn't mean to generalize "all" flyer fans, meant to say a few, obviously not all feel this way or have echoed this sentiment.

 

[johnjm22]

There's no way of knowing.

IMO, Sutter was the most important piece to the Kings run.

I do think chemistry is sensitive. Change one small variable in the mixture, and the end result changes. Change the time at which you place a variable in the mixture, and again the end result isn't the same.

 

[Rorschach]

Without Richards we don't make it past Vancouver. Canucks win that series within six games when Daniel Sedin gets back and the Kings aren't up 3-0 already.

That's it. Nothing Schenn or Simmonds or Johnson or manbearpig could do about it.

Henrik isolated, Kesler and Burrows playing like crap, Luongo switched out, Booth non-factor...Richards sets the tone in game one, which neutralizes so many of the Canucks top players.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

There were tons of Flyers fans saying Giroux is the best player in the league, better than Crosby, etc. So take what they say with a large grain of salt.

 

[FootKnight]

Say what you want about his performance in philly but Simmonds sucked on the kings and he probably still would on some teams in the west, I'm glad he's gone cause I think his stats are inflated, with that said Richards and Carter are way more important then Simmonds /Schenn would of ever been.

Well, I disagree with that first bit. I agree that his stats are inflated on the Flyers (although I think he would be a 15-20 goal scoring 2nd/3rd liner on the Kings, probably bouncing around right now a la Lewis, Clifford, and King) and that Richards and Carter are more important, but I would definitely love to have Simmonds back on this team.

 

[Captain Mittens*]

No....

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Pointless question because the Kings wouldn't of even made the playoffs.

 

[MsMeow]

Well, I disagree with that first bit. I agree that his stats are inflated on the Flyers (although I think he would be a 15-20 goal scoring 2nd/3rd liner on the Kings, probably bouncing around right now a la Lewis, Clifford, and King) and that Richards and Carter are more important, but I would definitely love to have Simmonds back on this team.

His defence isn't very good and that won't fly in the west.

 

[SLang]

12 goals and 28 points combined

I believe this puts an end to this silly concept. Richard is an incredibly good center and Carter is proving himself an elite sniper. Simmonds and Schenn were neither last year.

A thousand times we'd all trade Schenn/Simmonds for Richards/Carter.

 

[johnjm22]

Say what you want about his performance in philly but Simmonds sucked on the kings and he probably still would on some teams in the west

That is absolute rubbish.

Simmonds was consistently one our better forwards at even strength. His presence was sorely missed until we got Carter, King and Nolan filling out spots in the lineup.

The reason Simmonds didn't have more offensive production in LA was because he didn't get PP time. His production relative to ice time was some of the best on the team.

 

[KingsCorona]

Not last year.

This is pretty much my thought. Simmonds is a hell of a player and I'd have loved it if we could have kept him, but he isn't quite the outright goal scorer that Carter is and we really needed that. Schenn is still developing and, while he looks pretty good this year, he doesn't bring the same skills that Richards does and certainly wasn't close to being what we would have needed last season. I'm happy that Schenn and Simmonds have had success in Philly, but I'm also totally happy with Carter and Richards.