Do Marleau and Brown belong?

[thewave]

We are set up to be a top 6/bottom 6 team by the nature of salary distribution.
The best way to move forward is to solidify the top 4 D with money.
A poor man's Nashville top 4.

LW(Choose your LW)...Matthews...Nylander
Hyman...Tavares...Marner
Rielly...RD
Muzzin...RD
Goalie

There is your money.
Marlies + Ennis deals recycle around. You keep drafting and hope the kids you bring in give you 5 million dollar skill at 700K every once in a while for a few runs.

Cap wise, the sad reality is we are now not competitive against a team like NSH or Tampa or WPG.

That means, we need to win not with the paper roster but with our brains. Tactics set by coaching and riding the tender. It's just the reality of other teams getting better contracts over top 6 or 8 players. You save 1m each and suddenly you can afford a bonus Nylander or extra Muzzin on the roster. That extra makes all the difference or the more popular choice, skilled hard hitting depth forwards that cost a bit more on avg.

Dubas basically said...

80% of the cap into 40% of the team. Fill the rest with small players we can find cheap because they are less desirable by teams.

 

[TheProspector]

No, neither Marleau and Brown fit in with the club after this year. And Kadri probably doesn't, either.

The big three didn't take team-friendly deals. They're the one driving the bus. They each wanted to get paid, and soak up all of the cap cash from the depth around them.

It is what it is. The quality of the players around them is going to necessarily decline because of their prioritisation of money their kids will never spend over icing a better hockey team. And that also means there is zero room for other players to be paid for more production than they actually generate -- for whatever reason.

This is a Pittsburgh/Chicago situation, except all of our stars are very young, and our depth is older. We'll make do -- but we'll never have the chance to put up this year's Tampa numbers. (But they won't again, either.)

Marleau is by far the worst contract in this regard, but his NMC probably means a better player will be out first. Brown and Kadri are probably going byebye. This team *can't* afford to lose Gardiner (or get a similar player via UFA, which probably doesn't exist), as we can precisely see how bad this team plays without him.

 

[Trapper]

Cap wise, the sad reality is we are now not competitive against a team like NSH or Tampa or WPG.

That means, we need to win not with the paper roster but with our brains. Tactics set by coaching and riding the tender. It's just the reality of other teams getting better contracts over top 6 or 8 players. You save 1m each and suddenly you can afford a bonus Nylander or extra Muzzin on the roster. That extra makes all the difference or the more popular choice, skilled hard hitting depth forwards that cost a bit more on avg.

Dubas said...

80% of the cap into 40% of the team. Fill the rest with small players we can find cheap because they are less desirable by teams.

And we are still waiting to see if that 80% of the cap is the right players.
Because if you can't win in the playoffs...
And we don't know yet.

 

[Not My Tempo]

If you really respect someone, you'll lie about them

Lol and I can still respect what he’s done in the NHL AND recognize he’s nowhere near the player he used to be. They aren’t mutually exclusive. The Avs are my second team, and I don’t think it’s a coincidence that they started improving a ton once Iggy’s contract was done. He was constantly getting top 6 time and PP time and plays just died on his stick. And it’s sucks that I have to witness it again with Marleau

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Cap wise, the sad reality is we are now not competitive against a team like NSH or Tampa or WPG.

That means, we need to win not with the paper roster but with our brains. Tactics set by coaching and riding the tender. It's just the reality of other teams getting better contracts over top 6 or 8 players. You save 1m each and suddenly you can afford a bonus Nylander or extra Muzzin on the roster. That extra makes all the difference or the more popular choice, skilled hard hitting depth forwards that cost a bit more on avg.

Dubas said...

80% of the cap into 40% of the team. Fill the rest with small players we can find cheap because they are less desirable by teams.

Did Dubas actually say this?

 

[Mess]

Cap wise, the sad reality is we are now not competitive against a team like NSH or Tampa or WPG.

That means, we need to win not with the paper roster but with our brains. Tactics set by coaching and riding the tender. It's just the reality of other teams getting better contracts over top 6 or 8 players. You save 1m each and suddenly you can afford a bonus Nylander or extra Muzzin on the roster. That extra makes all the difference or the more popular choice, skilled hard hitting depth forwards that cost a bit more on avg.

Dubas said...

80% of the cap into 40% of the team. Fill the rest with small players we can find cheap because they are less desirable by teams.

Agreed, and the reality is that Leafs are removing much of their 3rd line just to be able to afford the contracts of AM + JT+ MM + WN.

They're not moving out players like Marleau, Brown, Kadri etc to build up the Dcore, but to remain cap compliant for the most part.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

The Leafs have been pushing hard to change the playoff format. As I understand it even Tavares is forcing NHLPA to question the rationale. People are asking Bettman to provide proof that divisional rivalries are working with increased attendance and increased TV ratings. And nothing is coming from Bettman. Likely because there are no numbers to back up anything he is saying. Seems like a little stand off is coming down. It may come to nothing but Leafs position is teams should be seeded based on regular season performance. We will see where the NHLPA comes out. They will likely poll their members.

Tampa is in bad shape on CAP too. This summer they will be forced to jetison 2 players for Point. Next summer 2 more for Vasi. Tampa has a 2 year Cup window.

Boston will be fighting hard against its players this summer to keep everyone under the CAP. 3 RFA's and resigning Chara. I think they can do it but they will have no room next season to fart. Any injuries and they are in trouble.

 

[thewave]

Did Dubas actually say this?

Fixed it. No he did not. I missed a word but he basically said it in the contracts he handed out.

 

[thewave]

Agreed, and the reality is that Leafs are removing much of their 3rd line just to be able to afford the contracts of AM + JT+ MM + WN.

They're not moving out players like Marleau, Brown, Kadri etc to build up the Dcore, but to remain cap compliant for the most part.

Precisely. We gotta play smart and work hard now. This championship dream is not even close to a shoe in now.

 

[Trapper]

Agreed, and the reality is that Leafs are removing much of their 3rd line just to be able to afford the contracts of AM + JT+ MM + WN.

They're not moving out players like Marleau, Brown, Kadri etc to build up the Dcore, but to remain cap compliant for the most part.

RFA estimate salaries.
Start cutting...there is only so much Brown you can remove.

Left Wing	Salary	Center	Salary	Right Wing	Salary
Johnsson	3	Matthews	11.634	Nylander	6.9
Hyman	2.25	Tavares	11	Marner	10
Marleau	6.25	Kadri	4.5	Kapanen	3
Moore	0.7	Gauthier	0.675	Brown	2.1
Petan	0.775	x	x	Kessel	1.2
Forward	Total	x	x	x	63.984
Left Defense	Salary	Right Defense	Salary	x	x
Rielly	5	Zaitsev	4.5	x	x
Muzzin	4	Liljegren	1.325	x	x
Dermott	0.863	Holl	0.675	x	x
Rosen	0.7	x	x	x	x
Defense	Total	x	x	x	17.063
Goal	Salary	x	x	x	x
Andersen	5	x	x	x	x
Sparks	0.7	x	x	x	x
Goalie	Total	x	x	x	5.7
Team	Cap	Total	86.747

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[justafan22]

 

[96]

should have traded Brown for Kassian

Marleau with retention to SJS to retire

Maybe we can just make you GM?

 

[ShaneFalco]

Ummmmmm yeah

 

[Maple Leaf]

These guys are anchors now. Sad turn of events. I remember the Marleau thread where everyone has dumping on the Leafs. Looks like they were right. Bad contract. Off to the island for him soon. Brown hopefully trade down. And Xaitsev and Gardiner gone will save some sweet cash.

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

Maybe we can just make you GM?

Sounds good to me

 

[hoglund]

I wonder why?

 

[Maple Leaf]

I wonder why?

This is some geal rood pro delusion right here

 

[SprDaVE]

I still think Brown has a role. He does well defensively and still works hard. He's really good on the PK as well. I'm pretty shocked at how badly his offensive game has fallen though because he was always a super talented player with the puck. He seems to be fighting the puck so much this season.

As for Marleau, his decline was expected. Sometimes he'll show flashes but he's been struggling mightly more often than not.

 

[ACC1224]

His thoughts on Brown really shouldn't come as any surprise.

 

[justafan22]

I still think Brown has a role. He does well defensively and still works hard. He's really good on the PK as well. I'm pretty shocked at how badly his offensive game has fallen though because he was always a super talented player with the puck. He seems to be fighting the puck so much this season.

As for Marleau, his decline was expected. Sometimes he'll show flashes but he's been struggling mightly more often than not.

He's a good 3rd liner who is paid a tad too much for what he brings. If the Leafs weren't so up against the cap next year he wouldn't get this much vitriol IMO.

 

[SprDaVE]

He's a good 3rd liner who is paid a tad too much for what he brings. If the Leafs weren't so up against the cap next year he wouldn't get this much vitriol IMO.

For the Leafs he's paid a little too much for his role but plenty of teams would love to have him at his price. I really do believe he'll get back to ~40 points with better minutes. Maybe a fresh start is what he needs, I'm not sure.

But I don't disagree with how badly he's been offensively this year. He's been fighting it quite a bit and it's really unlike him if you look at his career since Junior.

Plenty of players have bad years but bounce back. This is important to understand. Paths aren't linear.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

RFA estimate salaries.
Start cutting...there is only so much Brown you can remove.

Left Wing	Salary	Center	Salary	Right Wing	Salary
Johnsson	3	Matthews	11.634	Nylander	6.9
Hyman	2.25	Tavares	11	Marner	10
Marleau	6.25	Kadri	4.5	Kapanen	3
Moore	0.7	Gauthier	0.675	Brown	2.1
Petan	0.775	x	x	Kessel	1.2
Forward	Total	x	x	x	63.984
Left Defense	Salary	Right Defense	Salary	x	x
Rielly	5	Zaitsev	4.5	x	x
Muzzin	4	Liljegren	1.325	x	x
Dermott	0.863	Holl	0.675	x	x
Rosen	0.7	x	x	x	x
Defense	Total	x	x	x	17.063
Goal	Salary	x	x	x	x
Andersen	5	x	x	x	x
Sparks	0.7	x	x	x	x
Goalie	Total	x	x	x	5.7
Team	Cap	Total	86.747

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

That D is brutal which is why one of Nylander or Kadri will go for a RHD. In addition Brown will be gone, Gardiner will be gone, Ennis will be gone, and one of Kappy or Johnsson will be gone.

This team will take a step back next year unless Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Reilly, and Freddy carry them on their backs.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

This is some geal rood pro delusion right here

I missed it. What did it say?

EDIT: Never mind. Babcock is delusional.

 

[justafan22]

For the Leafs he's paid a little too much for his role but plenty of teams would love to have him at his price. I really do believe he'll get back to ~40 points with better minutes. Maybe a fresh start is what he needs, I'm not sure.

But I don't disagree with how badly he's been offensively this year. He's been fighting it quite a bit and it's really unlike him if you look at his career since Junior.

Plenty of players have bad years but bounce back. This is important to understand. Paths aren't linear.

Yup. They're not going to get great value for him this summer and as you said, wouldn't shock me if on a new team he puts up similar numbers (maybe not goal wise though) to his rookie year.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Asked Babcock about Connor Brown (6G in 75 games), he said of course Brown would like more goals, but, "he’s an elite penalty killer, elite without the puck, drive-train guy, does it right every day. Hard to complain about Brownie if you’re the coach, he does so many things."