Do Marleau and Brown belong?

[ShaneFalco]

Don't think Twitter is working here - these are still up

 

[thewave]

That D is brutal which is why one of Nylander or Kadri will go for a RHD. In addition Brown will be gone, Gardiner will be gone, Ennis will be gone, and one of Kappy or Johnsson will be gone.

This team will take a step back next year unless Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Reilly, and Freddy carry them on their backs.

Exactly this. It's the situation Dubas has created and has to figure out. Next year we will not have a text as good as this year's years without trades.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Asked Babcock about Connor Brown (6G in 75 games), he said of course Brown would like more goals, but, "he’s an elite penalty killer, elite without the puck, drive-train guy, does it right every day. Hard to complain about Brownie if you’re the coach, he does so many things."

Thanks. Any further questions about Babcock's coaching prowess are now answered. He's mucho loco en la cabasa.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

His thoughts on Brown really shouldn't come as any surprise.

To be fair, Babcock is not exactly wrong. All of those things he said (maybe a little bit generous in the wording, but nonetheless) are things Brown does well and makes him a very valuable player. However, fans like goals, or other things that are easy to quantify (Corsi, etc.). Brown is not someone who looks favourable in those areas right now, but does look favourable on defense, forechecking and all of the other little things that are needed for a team to win.

That being said, he's too good (and too expensive) for our 4th line, and with Bracco coming up, he's likely not going to move up even if one of the top 3 RW's move somewhere else (even if it is just Nylander to center). It will suck to move him, but given we will get a pretty good return for him, and we have guys who can step up to replace him admirably on the 4th line, we won't lose sleep over trading him... And I am sure Babcock feels the exact same way.

 

[ACC1224]

To be fair, Babcock is not exactly wrong. All of those things he said (maybe a little bit generous in the wording, but nonetheless) are things Brown does well and makes him a very valuable player. However, fans like goals, or other things that are easy to quantify (Corsi, etc.). Brown is not someone who looks favourable in those areas right now, but does look favourable on defense, forechecking and all of the other little things that are needed for a team to win.

That being said, he's too good (and too expensive) for our 4th line, and with Bracco coming up, he's likely not going to move up even if one of the top 3 RW's move somewhere else (even if it is just Nylander to center). It will suck to move him, but given we will get a pretty good return for him, and we have guys who can step up to replace him admirably on the 4th line, we won't lose sleep over trading him... And I am sure Babcock feels the exact same way.

Yep....disappointing offensive season for sure but like Babcock says, he's the kind of player coach's love.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

I'm still in utter disbelief over that statement.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

RFA estimate salaries.
Start cutting...there is only so much Brown you can remove.

Left Wing	Salary	Center	Salary	Right Wing	Salary
Johnsson	3	Matthews	11.634	Nylander	6.9
Hyman	2.25	Tavares	11	Marner	10
Marleau	6.25	Kadri	4.5	Kapanen	3
Moore	0.7	Gauthier	0.675	Brown	2.1
Petan	0.775	x	x	Kessel	1.2
Forward	Total	x	x	x	63.984
Left Defense	Salary	Right Defense	Salary	x	x
Rielly	5	Zaitsev	4.5	x	x
Muzzin	4	Liljegren	1.325	x	x
Dermott	0.863	Holl	0.675	x	x
Rosen	0.7	x	x	x	x
Defense	Total	x	x	x	17.063
Goal	Salary	x	x	x	x
Andersen	5	x	x	x	x
Sparks	0.7	x	x	x	x
Goalie	Total	x	x	x	5.7
Team	Cap	Total	86.747

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

I posted this yesterday, but I will post it again.

Trades

1st round pick 2019 (CAR)


C Nazem Kadri


RD Chris Tanev


RD Nikita Zaitsev

Even if you do not think this deal is reasonable, just swap out Tanev for Zaitsev. It's essentially the same cap and the defense is not any worse off, just with a guy with longer term.


2021 7th round pick (TBL)
*Pick does not convert if Igor Ozhiganov if he does not either re-sign for the 2020-2021 season or play at least 25 games in the 2019-2020 season. Pick becomes a 2021 6th round pick if Igor Ozhiganov plays at least 50 games in the 2019-2020 season.


Rights to RD Igor Ozhiganov
G Kasimir Kaskisuo


2nd round pick 2019 (EDM)
6th round pick 2019 (EDM)


RW Connor Brown
4th round pick 2019 (TOR)



Even if you think Marner, Kapanen or Johnsson do not make enough, there is almost 2 mill in extra room to play with. Those guys combined are not going to make 2 mill more than the numbers I have given them, and if it becomes a problem, then there are UFA's who could fit in for a far more appropriate number without sacrificing too much in quality.

 

[Trapper]

Yep....disappointing offensive season for sure but like Babcock says, he's the kind of player coach's love.

That's the kind of thing you want in your skill.

Skill + whatever that is.

But whatever that is without skill is not something you want to be paying 2+ million dollars.
The same way that skill without whatever that is you don't want to be paying multi-millions of dollars.

 

[ACC1224]

That's the kind of thing you want in your skill.

Skill + whatever that is.

But whatever that is without skill is not something you want to be paying 2+ million dollars.
The same way that skill without whatever that is you don't want to be paying multi-millions of dollars.

Yep, that's most likely why he'll find himself on another team next year.
End of the day, you need to put up some points.

 

[Trapper]

I posted this yesterday, but I will post it again.

View attachment 204629

Trades

1st round pick 2019 (CAR)


C Nazem Kadri


RD Chris Tanev


RD Nikita Zaitsev

Even if you do not think this deal is reasonable, just swap out Tanev for Zaitsev. It's essentially the same cap and the defense is not any worse off, just with a guy with longer term.


2021 7th round pick (TBL)
*Pick does not convert if Igor Ozhiganov if he does not either re-sign for the 2020-2021 season or play at least 25 games in the 2019-2020 season. Pick becomes a 2021 6th round pick if Igor Ozhiganov plays at least 50 games in the 2019-2020 season.


Rights to RD Igor Ozhiganov
G Kasimir Kaskisuo


2nd round pick 2019 (EDM)
6th round pick 2019 (EDM)


RW Connor Brown
4th round pick 2019 (TOR)



Even if you think Marner, Kapanen or Johnsson do not make enough, there is almost 2 mill in extra room to play with. Those guys combined are not going to make 2 mill more than the numbers I have given them, and if it becomes a problem, then there are UFA's who could fit in for a far more appropriate number without sacrificing too much in quality.

Tanev will be injured in 10 games totally pooching us and I think that bottom 6 got even softer.

 

[Trapper]

Yep, that's most likely why he'll find himself on another team next year.
End of the day, you need to put up some points.

Brown has to be the first one out the door. You can't keep that much money in the bottom 6.
I most likely pair him with Kadri/Johnsson/Kapanen and try to pull in that top 4 RHD.
Like if a Kadri/Brown + whatever can get you a Pesce + Wallmark (3C) moving forward. Then you can deal with Zaitsev either way.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

That's the kind of thing you want in your skill.

Skill + whatever that is.

But whatever that is without skill is not something you want to be paying 2+ million dollars.
The same way that skill without whatever that is you don't want to be paying multi-millions of dollars.

Let's not pretend this guy has no skill... He's still put up 25 points in a mostly defensive role this year, and has a career high in assists. It's just his goals are not happening, but you could say that about a lot of our team. Marleau, Nylander (for obvious reasons), Kadri, Gardiner (not so much his goals but his point totals would have likely been a good 15 points lower than last year if he was healthy this year). It's not like he is the only one going through a drought, and he has a lot more of an excuse (and at least brings a lot of other things to the table) than a lot of the other players going through goal droughts right now.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Tanev will be injured in 10 games totally pooching us and I think that bottom 6 got even softer.

Honestly, it's not even a huge problem in the grand scheme of things. The only physicality you are going to find is either going to be through fringe players not good enough to make our lineup (I had the Leafs signing Devante Smith-Pelly and sticking him in the minors) or will be severely overpriced.

Also, Tanev does not have a great track record, but it appeases the anti-Zaitsev crowd without totally killing us in a trade or on our defense. It may be asking a lot out of Tanev to stay healthy, but it's only for one year and then Liljegren (or a stop gap) can hopefully fill in our top 4 RD alongside Dermott or someone else.

 

[diceman934]

His thoughts on Brown really shouldn't come as any surprise.

He is not wrong. Look at our PK he plays s big Role on it and after trading Amother trusted PK player for Petan even more so. He is seldom on the ice for goals against and his give away take away stats are very good. He has struggled offensively but to be truthful he has not had much of a chance to play in that role this year at all. He is gone for sure come summer but look for him as a defensive replacement for Nylander late in games that we are winning as well as playing a key role on the pk.

Far to many on here has us keeping Nylander and the only way we do is if he competes in the playoffs this year. No pulling the chute, getting to pucks first when he is able taking checks to help the team win. Dubas can promise him he would not be traded but Shanny will not tolerate another playoffs like he had last year. His cap hit means that we can not afford him if he continues to play the soft perimeter game. I am hoping he shows up.

 

[Trapper]

Let's not pretend this guy has no skill... He's still put up 25 points in a mostly defensive role this year, and has a career high in assists. It's just his goals are not happening, but you could say that about a lot of our team. Marleau, Nylander (for obvious reasons), Kadri, Gardiner (not so much his goals but his point totals would have likely been a good 15 points lower than last year if he was healthy this year). It's not like he is the only one going through a drought, and he has a lot more of an excuse (and at least brings a lot of other things to the table) than a lot of the other players going through goal droughts right now.

I like Brown and how he plays. We are just so top heavy in salary now that we can’t even afford a compliment down year or Babcock utilizing someone above 2 million dollars in a checking/specialty role.

I also like Kadri and how he plays but a matchup role at 4.5? No. I like D even more.

 

[Buds17]

I'm still in utter disbelief over that statement.

Brown can't accomplish what the top level skill players on the team can with the puck, but those players can/are more likely to be able to improve their play without the puck.

That aside, the RW situation looks to be in good hands with Marner/Nylander/Kapanen. Brown's cap hit doesn't work on the fourth line of this team, even if he is at the top of his game.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I like Brown and how he plays. We are just so top heavy in salary now that we can’t even afford a compliment down year or Babcock utilizing someone above 2 million dollars in a checking/specialty role.

I also like Kadri and how he plays but a matchup role at 4.5? No. I like D even more.

I totally agree on both accounts, but I do not think that equates to saying Brown has no skill. He's just not going to be a skill guy like Marner.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Brown can't accomplish what the top level skill players on the team can with the puck, but those players can/are more likely to be able to improve their play without the puck.

That aside, the RW situation looks to be in good hands with Marner/Nylander/Kapanen. Brown's cap hit doesn't work on the fourth line of this team, even if he is at the top of his game.

The last sentence is the crux of the matter. You can get two league minimum guys to do what he does and have cap space left over.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Not sure what trades will be made but Marleau and Z must be dealt off roster effectively if we are going to ice a better team next season.

To me I would put Johnsson with Z in a trade package to off load Z to a CAP floor team for a pick and a prospect. Johnsson can easily be replaced by Bracco in a CAP saving move and team production will stay the same offensively.

With Z savings we can get a decent RHD with some size who can skate and is tough and then resign Kappy to a 3-5 year deal.

With Marleau and a 1st round pick we can offload the CAP hit next season with a decent trade to a CAP floor team and pick up a vet RHD who can help with missing toughness.

With both gone we can get 2 RHD with size who can skate and play.

Kadri Matty Bracco
Hyman Tavares Marner
Moore Willy Kappy
Marchment Goat Brown
Petan

Rielly RHD
Muzz RHD
Dermott Holl
Rosen

 

[I am Canadian]

Brown is a good player ~ not everyone has to be putting up big points. He's defensively responsible, and PK's well.
Only problem is with us being so tight against the cap we can't afford his 2M. He is easy move-able and a good player.

 

[Buds17]

The last sentence is the crux of the matter. You can get two league minimum guys to do what he does and have cap space left over.

I'd think so. I didn't mind the contract though. It provided time to Kapanen. With a year left, and at that cap hit, it should be easy enough to move.

 

[Mess]

Brown and Hyman are Babcock's Swiss Army knives .. All good teams have solid role/ utility players that can play up and down the line-up and play specialty teams as needed.

If you asked the coach he would say he doesn't have enough of these at his disposal.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Babcock confirms Brown is a fourth liner today basedbin what he brings here and we don't keep 2m 4th liners on this team anymore. Ie. Matt Martin.

 

[96]

The man said let’s just trade Zaitsev for Tanev lmao

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

Brown and Hyman are Babcock's Swiss Army knives .. All good teams have solid role/ utility players that can play up and down the line-up and play specialty teams as needed.

If you asked the coach he would say he doesn't have enough of these at his disposal.

Brown Can't play up the lineup.