WC: Divisions I, II, III

[kabidjan18]

Funny thing about the Hungarian teenagers born in the 90's is that it seemed a strong group of kids would be followed by a weak group. The stronger group was born in an even-numbered year whereas the weaker group was born in an odd-numbered year. This goes back to 1992. The result is a strong showing in one year which is usually followed by a disappointing relegation. Looking back now between 1992 and 1998, I would consider the 93, 95, & 97 age groups to be weaker than the others.

That said 1999 may be different as quite a few were part of the team that won promotion to Division 1A. As you mentioned, next year's tournament may give us some indication where Hungarian hockey may be trending when they are tested by the Kazakhs, the Norwegians, the French and the Germans.

People don't realize that due to fundamental disadvantages and advantages in the youth production system the distance between an Austria, a Denmark, or a Germany will get much larger before it actually begins to get smaller.

Hungary's best U20 players are, a bottom-feeding USHL player, a player on the average curve for the Austrian U20, and the talented Vilmos Gallo. Unfortunately, Gallo is almost (ok not really almost either) as talented as Austria's 4th best forward this year in the U20. Austria's other best players are the top offensive defenseman in the Swiss Junioren Elite league, two CHL players scoring at .8-.85 clips, another Swedish league forward who sat the year out with concussions, another CHL forward, an NLA goalie for next year, and two players who were formerly CHL drafted (one of which who played) and are already playing in the high-ECHL, low AHL level EBEL. In fact, statistically outside of the top player, the U20 Hungarian team lines up very well against the Austria U18 team (the worst in recent memory). Looking younger, the Austrian U16 team beat Hungary 4-3 at the beginning of the season, but they played a few more times together and with some added cohesion beat Hungary 4-1 in the middle of the season, and by the end of the season when they were beating Denmark and Norway they probably would've beaten them something like 7-1 as cohesiveness benefits the more talented team over time.

I'm a little bit more impressed with Poland. They've found a pipeline into the Czech republic and it's produced Aron Chmielewski and as such, Alan Lyszczarczyk, Gergorz Radcienciak, as well as a bunch of little kids playing in the Schuler-Bundesliga. Key to a young country's growth is establishing a pipeline with recognition. The bulk of the best polish youth go through the Czech league (some the german), which means that the Poles won't surpass the Czechs while they continue to do so, but that gives them a lot of room for growth. The bulk of the best Hungarians go through the Austrian league...see a potential bottleneck there? Of course they could stay in the Mol system but that system has no recognition, it's a road to nowhere currently.

 

[Milansdad]

*cough* we beat Austria B 4 times in friendly matches. We also barely lost to Kazakhstan without Dallman and Russia C.

I don't really know anyone who puts Italy on the same level as Austria, so that's a very strange level pairing you have there haha.

Expert alert!

Well, if it matters we beat Kazakhstan 3 years ago in a Division 1/A WC match too. Barely got beaten by Slovakia the last time in the elite WC (they only won the game in the last 13 seconds).
Also we had a decent chance against Belarus in the elite WC and that was 8 years ago. Since then the hockey in Hungary jumped a level in almost - if not every - aspects of the game.

And yes, since Austria and Italy were lifting countries I would put them in the same bunch even though recently Italy got worse. At least from a division 1/A team's perspective they are/were.

And I doubt Austria wanted to got beaten by Hungary in front of their home crowd twice and two more times in Hungary all of a sudden after decades...But I'm sure you know it better

 

[Milansdad]

People don't realize that due to fundamental disadvantages and advantages in the youth production system the distance between an Austria, a Denmark, or a Germany will get much larger before it actually begins to get smaller.

Hungary's best U20 players are, a bottom-feeding USHL player, a player on the average curve for the Austrian U20, and the talented Vilmos Gallo. Unfortunately, Gallo is almost (ok not really almost either) as talented as Austria's 4th best forward this year in the U20. Austria's other best players are the top offensive defenseman in the Swiss Junioren Elite league, two CHL players scoring at .8-.85 clips, another Swedish league forward who sat the year out with concussions, another CHL forward, an NLA goalie for next year, and two players who were formerly CHL drafted (one of which who played) and are already playing in the high-ECHL, low AHL level EBEL. In fact, statistically outside of the top player, the U20 Hungarian team lines up very well against the Austria U18 team (the worst in recent memory). Looking younger, the Austrian U16 team beat Hungary 4-3 at the beginning of the season, but they played a few more times together and with some added cohesion beat Hungary 4-1 in the middle of the season, and by the end of the season when they were beating Denmark and Norway they probably would've beaten them something like 7-1 as cohesiveness benefits the more talented team over time.

I'm a little bit more impressed with Poland. They've found a pipeline into the Czech republic and it's produced Aron Chmielewski and as such, Alan Lyszczarczyk, Gergorz Radcienciak, as well as a bunch of little kids playing in the Schuler-Bundesliga. Key to a young country's growth is establishing a pipeline with recognition. The bulk of the best polish youth go through the Czech league (some the german), which means that the Poles won't surpass the Czechs while they continue to do so, but that gives them a lot of room for growth. The bulk of the best Hungarians go through the Austrian league...see a potential bottleneck there? Of course they could stay in the Mol system but that system has no recognition, it's a road to nowhere currently.

Let's not forget that it is much easier to be selected by top level team if you come from a country which hockey is on a higher shelf/more recognized...
Hungary has many talented guys, but we don't have that flag bearer yet who can make way for others.
What we have is a fast growing infrastructure (indoor rinks, etc), an expanding number young hockey players and a strong will to stay on the top league. Hockey in Hungary got in the most focused sport category and the money is pouring into it.
Can't wait to see how this WC will go down. Due to the special relegation rules (Germany, France) we are facing a tougher than normal situation to stay in the elite, but we'll try our best.

 

[EbencoyE]

Great to see Poland rebound well as the tournament went along, but sad to see Japan get relegated. They were never this bad, were they? Sounds like they were all out of sorts this year. Would rather see Italy fall down, they don't really care about hockey (more people watched triathlon than hockey in the country at the last Olympics). In Japan, they are top 15 in the most registered user and it's the number one sport in the upper regions of the country where it gets snow.

uhh... the teams that won are the teams that deserve to get promoted. the hell does triathlon have to do with anything? italy is a big country, of course most people aren't going to care. same with japan. hockey is a minor sport in a tiny northern corner of both countries

 

[kabidjan18]

Expert alert!

Well, if it matters we beat Kazakhstan 3 years ago in a Division 1/A WC match too. Barely got beaten by Slovakia the last time in the elite WC (they only won the game in the last 13 seconds).
Also we had a decent chance against Belarus in the elite WC and that was 8 years ago. Since then the hockey in Hungary jumped a level in almost - if not every - aspects of the game.

And yes, since Austria and Italy were lifting countries I would put them in the same bunch even though recently Italy got worse. At least from a division 1/A team's perspective they are/were.

And I doubt Austria wanted to got beaten by Hungary in front of their home crowd twice and two more times in Hungary all of a sudden after decades...But I'm sure you know it better

The trademark of a still small nation is " we didn't get killed = what an accomplishment"

Of course they didn't want to, but it's kinda hard not to since we were missing our top 5 forwards, and of our 6-9 forwards we played 8 and 9 the first game, 6 and 7 the second. Also, our top 3 defensemen, and a host of other better players...we were playing Nico Brunner and Bernhard Fechtig, that should say enough.

Umm, in the past few years Austria beat Slovakia, Switzerland, Latvia, Germany, Norway, and put up the most goals in Sochi of any team against Finland. Our B team also soundly beat Italy's A team, if you care to factor that stuff. Your best accomplishments are not getting killed by nations like Kazakshtan that are weaker than the ones we beat...what amazing accomplishments haha

Ironically Poland beat our B team by the same amount they beat your A team.

 

[kabidjan18]

Let's not forget that it is much easier to be selected by top level team if you come from a country which hockey is on a higher shelf/more recognized...
Hungary has many talented guys, but we don't have that flag bearer yet who can make way for others.
What we have is a fast growing infrastructure (indoor rinks, etc), an expanding number young hockey players and a strong will to stay on the top league. Hockey in Hungary got in the most focused sport category and the money is pouring into it.
Can't wait to see how this WC will go down. Due to the special relegation rules (Germany, France) we are facing a tougher than normal situation to stay in the elite, but we'll try our best.

Well, best of luck but...it might be a rough WC just warning...

 

[Urbanskog]

A "B team" doesn't include a single player from what would be the "A team". I wish people would stop using that term.

 

[Milansdad]

The trademark of a still small nation is " we didn't get killed = what an accomplishment"

Of course they didn't want to, but it's kinda hard not to since we were missing our top 5 forwards, and of our 6-9 forwards we played 8 and 9 the first game, 6 and 7 the second. Also, our top 3 defensemen, and a host of other better players...we were playing Nico Brunner and Bernhard Fechtig, that should say enough.

Umm, in the past few years Austria beat Slovakia, Switzerland, Latvia, Germany, Norway, and put up the most goals in Sochi of any team against Finland. Our B team also soundly beat Italy's A team, if you care to factor that stuff. Your best accomplishments are not getting killed by nations like Kazakshtan that are weaker than the ones we beat...what amazing accomplishments haha

Ironically Poland beat our B team by the same amount they beat your A team.

So Austria it is..Now I can see where the hatred comes from...

"Ironically Poland beat our B team by the same amount they beat your A team. " - it is hard not to laugh when someone compare 2 matches' final result by how many goals the team scored to a third team and how many they got scored against...Especially if the 2 matches happened in a different settings WC/Friendlies/different year...

 

[kabidjan18]

A "B team" doesn't include a single player from what would be the "A team". I wish people would stop using that term.

Well a true "B team" also shouldn't have players who would be on the "C team" given 3 separate teams...so it rounds out

 

[kabidjan18]

So Austria it is..Now I can see where the hatred comes from...

"Ironically Poland beat our B team by the same amount they beat your A team. " - it is hard not to laugh when someone compare 2 matches' final result by how many goals the team scored to a third team and how many they got scored against...Especially if the 2 matches happened in a different settings WC/Friendlies/different year...

Hatred...no one was hating on anyone until you said Hungary, Italy and Austria are on the same level and that is amazingly...not quite supported...

It's hilarious when people try to brag about friendly matches, like what you can't win when it matters?

 

[Milansdad]

Hatred...no one was hating on anyone until you said Hungary, Italy and Austria are on the same level and that is amazingly...not quite supported...

It's hilarious when people try to brag about friendly matches, like what you can't win when it matters?

I have no idea if we can or not win in the elite WC, but we did beat teams in div 1A WC games. If Poland were able to beat Austria in a WC match, we sure can.

 

[kabidjan18]

I have no idea if we can or not win in the elite WC, but we did beat teams in div 1A WC games. If Poland were able to beat Austria in a WC match, we sure can.

Whether or not you can beat Austria depends basically on who they choose to send...but believe what you like, the last thing I want to so is infringe on homerism.

 

[Milansdad]

Whether or not you can beat Austria depends basically on who they choose to send...but believe what you like, the last thing I want to so is infringe on homerism.

So this year they decided to send a mediocre team to the div 1/a wc, on purpose? If that's what makes you sleep at night, so be it...

 

[kabidjan18]

So this year they decided to send a mediocre team to the div 1/a wc, on purpose? If that's what makes you sleep at night, so be it...

Lol, you're new to the international hockey scene it seems, you probably only recently got in on this Hungary deal. Anyone within 100 miles of the Austrian hockey program is aware that this wasn't anywhere close to a representative team, and that's ok. We haven't sent a full A team in years and as a (yep) bigger nation we can usually afford to do so. Look at Latvia, Germany, Denmark they don't send full A's to World's either and that's WHC, D1A they'd send a roster similar to what we sent. Problem is that the coach this year made terrible selections from our B pool, chose C pool players, but of course you wouldn't know because you...I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say you are new.

It's funny how a bigger country can send a team mostly comprised of B and C pool players and EXPECT to win (like the states in the WHC)...maybe it shows they are ahead of countries who send their entire A team and get EXCITED when they win.

 

[Milansdad]

Lol, you're new to the international hockey scene it seems, you probably only recently got in on this Hungary deal. Anyone within 100 miles of the Austrian hockey program is aware that this wasn't anywhere close to a representative team, and that's ok. We haven't sent a full A team in years and as a (yep) bigger nation we can usually afford to do so. Look at Latvia, Germany, Denmark they don't send full A's to World's either and that's WHC, D1A they'd send a roster similar to what we sent. Problem is that the coach this year made terrible selections from our B pool, chose C pool players, but of course you wouldn't know because you...I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say you are new.

It's funny how a bigger country can send a team mostly comprised of B and C pool players and EXPECT to win (like the states in the WHC)...maybe it shows they are ahead of countries who send their entire A team and get EXCITED when they win.

I do get excited when we win for sure. It is exciting timrs for a hungarian hockey fan that I am. As far as being new to the hockey scene, well not so much. l lived in Toronto, Canada for several years more than than 10 years ago and watched every Leafs game among many others.

 

[Milansdad]

Lol, you're new to the international hockey scene it seems, you probably only recently got in on this Hungary deal. Anyone within 100 miles of the Austrian hockey program is aware that this wasn't anywhere close to a representative team, and that's ok. We haven't sent a full A team in years and as a (yep) bigger nation we can usually afford to do so. Look at Latvia, Germany, Denmark they don't send full A's to World's either and that's WHC, D1A they'd send a roster similar to what we sent. Problem is that the coach this year made terrible selections from our B pool, chose C pool players, but of course you wouldn't know because you...I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say you are new.

It's funny how a bigger country can send a team mostly comprised of B and C pool players and EXPECT to win (like the states in the WHC)...maybe it shows they are ahead of countries who send their entire A team and get EXCITED when they win.

Austria is not a 'bigger nation' when it comes to hockey. Austria is a lifting country at best and even that was a bit of a strech this year. Any team with the caliber of Austria should send their A+ team in order to avoid relagation. Please don't try to sell me this 'we are so great hockey nation we can send our B squad and still have high hopes' nonsense. The only reason you had not sent your very best in the past tournaments, because the NHLers and some others were playing. We faced the same problems before, only the NHLers were AHLer, and some other league. Hurray we are a great hockey nation too!

 

[airbus1094]

Lol, you're new to the international hockey scene it seems, you probably only recently got in on this Hungary deal.

It's funny how a bigger country can send a team mostly comprised of B and C pool players and EXPECT to win (like the states in the WHC)...maybe it shows they are ahead of countries who send their entire A team and get EXCITED when they win.

Let's not resort to personal attacks and getting excited over hockey is always fine.

That being said, it's widely believed that Hungary is not yet on the same level as the usual elevator teams regardless of Hungary's previous wins. But, that could change with a good showing at the WC, go ahead and prove everyone wrong. I spent a few years Budapest and absolutely love the country, I'll be rooting for you guys.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

I didn't get to see any of the games but I am certainly impressed with the result of the South Korean team in 1A this year. Two years ago they were in 1A but seemed to be out of their league. This time had they won 2-1 instead of lost 2-1 versus Italy they would be heading to the top division. They did have 5 "import" players in G Matt Dalton, D Eric Regan, D Bryan Young, LW Brock Radunske, and C Michael Swift but still. Only Swift was above an ECHL level player and only Swift and Dalton seemed to be huge parts of the team. At very least South Korea appears to have caught up or passed Japan, when 10-15 years ago (back in the days of the far east exemption) Japan was regularly curb stomping the Koreans to the tune of 4-0-1 record and a 31 to 4 goal differential.

EDIT: It seems South Koreans were up in 2013 and beat Hungary, lost 6-5 to Japan. With less imports. Still I think South Korea is a country that is certainly coming along. I don't know much about infrastructure and whatnot, but the Asian leagues teams in Korea seem to be getting better along with the national team (when looking over 10 year spans which matters for national teams due to delays in developing players). With the KHL looking to expand to Asia and the olympics coming up it looks like Korea might be a team that can reach elevator WC/1A status in the next decade if those factors go right.

 

[kabidjan18]

Austria is not a 'bigger nation' when it comes to hockey. Austria is a lifting country at best and even that was a bit of a strech this year. Any team with the caliber of Austria should send their A+ team in order to avoid relagation. Please don't try to sell me this 'we are so great hockey nation we can send our B squad and still have high hopes' nonsense. The only reason you had not sent your very best in the past tournaments, because the NHLers and some others were playing. We faced the same problems before, only the NHLers were AHLer, and some other league. Hurray we are a great hockey nation too!

First off, I said the international hockey seen, just in case you can't read. It was also just an excuse you could use for your lack of international hockey knowledge...

Second, you see I've been waiting for you to say "ooh ooh (cutey voice) it's just the NHLers you're missing." You know what we were missing a few NHLers, and you know what more we were missing a bunch more local league players and Europeans players because we, unlike you, have depth in our competitive local league. Do we try to send a decent roster in WHC years? Yeah but we've been up so many times (not a problem ya'll have had) like the other countries players will often have other priorities and we end up fielding a very low power roster (it is a yearly tournament after all).

But I've been waiting to do this to dispel any confusions anyone may have so since you give me occasion to I will give you the Austrian rosters by rank just so you can see who exactly played Hungary this year. (Highlighted are who played game 1 vs Hungary, lines are sorted by forward skill, most skilled - least skilled)
22 Man A team

Vanek - M. Raffl - Grabner
T. Raffl - Komarek- Lebler
Herburger - M. Geier - Ganahl
Nodl - Hundertpfund - Rotter

Ulmer - Heinrich
Altmann - Iberer
Schlacher - Schumnig
Pallestrang - Unterweger

Lange
Starkbaum

22 Man B team

Koch - Obrist - Schneider
Schiechl - Hofer - Kaspitz
Haudum - Betrik - Netrik
Zwerger - Huber - Kristler

Viveiros - Reinthaler
P. Lakos - Zorec
Peter - Mitterdorfer
Bacher - Brunner

Kickert
Swette

22 Man C team

Fischer - S. Geier - Woger
Oberkofler - Cijan - Wukovits
Hartl - Leiler - Rauchenwald
Pinter - Platzer - Kromp

Wolf - Lembacher
Fechtig - Kirchschlager
Reichel - Kreuter
Jakubitzka - Vallant

Dechel
Muller

I could've also included guys who haven't prefaced if they wish to compete again for the national team such as Matthias Trattnig, Robert Lukas, etc. I could go into why each player not present was either occupied, unable, unwilling, or unselected but I won't. 3 A-teamers (2 of them bottom third line forwards), 11 B-teamers, 8 C-teamers. So yeah, what was that about missing a few NHLers?

 

[kabidjan18]

I didn't get to see any of the games but I am certainly impressed with the result of the South Korean team in 1A this year. Two years ago they were in 1A but seemed to be out of their league. This time had they won 2-1 instead of lost 2-1 versus Italy they would be heading to the top division. They did have 5 "import" players in G Matt Dalton, D Eric Regan, D Bryan Young, LW Brock Radunske, and C Michael Swift but still. Only Swift was above an ECHL level player and only Swift and Dalton seemed to be huge parts of the team. At very least South Korea appears to have caught up or passed Japan, when 10-15 years ago (back in the days of the far east exemption) Japan was regularly curb stomping the Koreans to the tune of 4-0-1 record and a 31 to 4 goal differential.

EDIT: It seems South Koreans were up in 2013 and beat Hungary, lost 6-5 to Japan. With less imports. Still I think South Korea is a country that is certainly coming along. I don't know much about infrastructure and whatnot, but the Asian leagues teams in Korea seem to be getting better along with the national team (when looking over 10 year spans which matters for national teams due to delays in developing players). With the KHL looking to expand to Asia and the olympics coming up it looks like Korea might be a team that can reach elevator WC/1A status in the next decade if those factors go right.

Lol you forgot Mike Testwuide! He's a fan favorite and he's a fun player to watch. Idk if the KHL is looking in Korea though, China for sure, that's exciting.

 

[HungryFrank]

EDIT: Still I think South Korea is a country that is certainly coming along. I don't know much about infrastructure and whatnot, but the Asian leagues teams in Korea seem to be getting better along with the national team (when looking over 10 year spans which matters for national teams due to delays in developing players). With the KHL looking to expand to Asia and the olympics coming up it looks like Korea might be a team that can reach elevator WC/1A status in the next decade if those factors go right.

Korean team got relegated in both U20 and U18 category. No real hockey improvement, just bulking with NA players.
Their homegrown players are a level below other teams in D1A, probably a D1B team. Their U20 team will play on the same level as Mexico and Australia, that pretty much says it all.

 

[Uncle Rotter]

In fact, statistically outside of the top player, the U20 Hungarian team lines up very well against the Austria U18 team (the worst in recent memory).

Too bad the Austria and Hungary U-18s can't face each other next year at the Worlds, seeing as Hungary got promoted and Austria demoted. Maybe Austria can wave as they pass each other.

 

[kabidjan18]

Too bad the Austria and Hungary U-18s can't face each other next year at the Worlds, seeing as Hungary got promoted and Austria demoted. Maybe Austria can wave as they pass each other.

Touche, but what sucks even more is that the year after they won't be able to play each other either, maybe they can wave again then as well.

 

[kabidjan18]

Hungary had a pretty good U18 team this year. A couple good EBYSL scorers, mostly EBJL kids still but I'm pretty sure like 5 of their forwards would have made Austria U18. Then there's that 15 year old kid who would make our super-talented U16 team. They just desperately need to get their kids out of the EBJL, that's a trap league.

Excited for next year's Championships, I think Austria has a solid shot for promotion on each level. Especially if we can get promoted to top division at the U20 level, we will have a bunch of great looking 17 year old draft eligible prospects for the following year. U20 D1A won't be easy next year but with Latvia gone that gives an opening. We lose Huber and Zwerger which is absolutely crushing but for forwards we'll still have Baltram, Haudum, Maxa, Winkler, and we'll be adding Kromp who was injured this year and is as good or better than any of the others I just mentioned. We're not losing anyone significant on defense, we retain Wolf who's the best defender and then add Steffler who will be a boss...

There was a U19 tournament this spring for Austria, Ukraine, Hungary and Poland to prep for next year's U20 WM. The game against Ukraine was pretty worrisome, 3-2, but the other games were about right (8-2 vs. Poland, 9-0 vs. Hungary). Poland would have Alan Lyszczarczyk and Austria would have Dario Winkler from the CHL though (Alan is clearly better).

 

[Kiraly]

There was a U19 tournament this spring for Austria, Ukraine, Hungary and Poland to prep for next year's U20 WM. The game against Ukraine was pretty worrisome, 3-2, but the other games were about right (8-2 vs. Poland, 9-0 vs. Hungary). Poland would have Alan Lyszczarczyk and Austria would have Dario Winkler from the CHL though (Alan is clearly better).

For Hungary, this was preparation and roster determination for the upcoming U18 WC in Italy.

Just to add some context, the Hungarians split their U18 into two squads...

...sent one to Poznan (the tournament above) and the other to Bled (Slovenia).

The one sent to Poland had 5 kids born in 1998, so a large majority was U17. The one sent to Bled was older.

The team that won promotion beating Italy, Ukraine, Slovenia, Japan and South Korea was made up from both of these squads.