Prospect Info: Discussion on previous prospects where things went wrong

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Mr Positive

Cap Crunch Incoming
Nov 20, 2013
37,569
18,502
imo most of the problem was with the quality of NHL veterans they had to play with (or rather, the lack of quality). It must have been easy for guys like Seguin and Couture, to have their mistakes not always end up in the back of the net, to play with high end skill, and to get pointers from leaders who know how to succeed.
 

rboomercat90

Registered User
Mar 24, 2013
15,441
10,394
Edmonton
I remember how excited I was the first time I saw Paaravi play live. He stood out with his size. He never learned how to use it though and IMO, that was his downfall. All the other comments about poor management, lack of veteran support and many of the other ones I've seen on here are all perfectly valid too. This has been a terrible organization for over twenty years. Let's hope things start to improve with new management and the chance for a do over now that Macdavid is an Oiler.
 

belair

Win it for Ben!
Apr 9, 2010
39,373
22,989
Canada
If Paajarvi and Hartikainen were together one player, you'd have one hell of a third liner. Unfortunately the Oilers continue to struggle with developing forwards capable of taking on those roles. Hopefully we've broken the trend with Anton Lander.
 

harpoon

Registered User
Dec 23, 2005
14,425
12,069
I don't know if a player busts after 3 years with a club I think it's on him. How many players get an easy development path? PRV had two decent seasons here and then a bad one. If he can't over come this I question his abilities.
Precisely. MPS was looking like an OK player until he realized some guys will try to take your head off in the NHL. Got to the point he would never take the puck to the slot because he knew what would happen if he did. Muffin wrister from the wall after muffin wrister from the wall. Pretty easy to defend a guy that you know is so easily intimidated. If you put Omark's jam and confidence in MPS's body you'd probably have a player worth talking about.

People may laugh at my suggestion, but one guy I think was screwed up a bit was Stortini.

The guy never was going to be much, but he looked like he had potential to be a Shawn Thorton. I think the problem with him was not knowing what the team actually wanted out of him. I meet him so many times every off-season and the guy was completely different from year to year. One year he was slim, trying to get faster. The next Mac was around so it seemed like he bulked up as he thought this is what the team wanted. Then the next he was slim again.

Just seems if the guy would've just focused on skating and positioning he would've gotten a lot further. Communication just didn't seem to be there.
Yeah, absolutely agree and thanks for saying so. Its so rare to see Stortini ever get any love on this board.
Kid played his guts out for this team, lead the league in fighting majors when he was like 21 and fought every ****ing monster in the league more than once.
Think about that. MPS can't even take a body check and Stortini was squaring off with Boogaard.
Totally thrown to the wolves and ruined by this organization. I don't think they even thought he was worth anything at all.
Same goes for Peckham to a lesser extent imo.
 

Eytinge

Registered User
Jul 25, 2009
10,939
1
What about the ridiculous amount of time and patience the Oilers gave to JFJ. Pat Quinn even put him on the first line when he got here. I think it took JFJ like 50 or 60 games to score his first NHL point it seemed like.
 

lakai17

Registered User
Aug 10, 2006
20,951
1,344
There was no depth or quality veterans to help or mentor the younger players, a lot were also european and the team has been soft for soo long which never helps.
 

Whiston532

Registered User
Dec 27, 2010
1,731
2,309
Edmonton
I do seem to recall spending a lot of years thinking about how I felt that we
Didn't exactly have anyone who seemed like theyd have been great mentors. Like, proper prospect management was the prime culprit. But who was one the team to provide the leadership for young guys trying to find their way ? Ethan Moreau ?
 

The Nuge

Some say…
Jan 26, 2011
27,953
9,143
British Columbia
If Paajarvi and Hartikainen were together one player, you'd have one hell of a third liner. Unfortunately the Oilers continue to struggle with developing forwards capable of taking on those roles. Hopefully we've broken the trend with Anton Lander.

Ya, if you gave Hartikainen Paajarvi's skating, you've probably got a top 6 powerforward. Those 2 couldn't have busted for more different reasons.

I give no blame for Paajarvi to the Oilers or Blues. If he isn't going to use his size, there's only so much you can do about it. That's on him
 

Evil Ernie

Registered User
Nov 2, 2011
402
0
I heard that Patrick O'Sullivan has a book coming out. (?)

What about him? He seemed to have a pretty good start in LA and than just disappeared off the face of the earth. He had an excellent opportunity with the Oilers and blew it IMO.
 

ChaoticOrange

Registered User
Jun 29, 2008
51,442
31,206
Edmonton
The way Slepyshev carried himself reminds me a bit of Paajarvi, but poor Magnus couldn't shoot the puck like Slepyshev if his life depended on it. No nose for the net either.
 

DisgruntledGoat*

Registered User
Dec 26, 2010
4,301
28
Jani Rita is still the guy I find most confusing.

He was great in the AHL, apparently (I never saw him play) big, defensively responsible, fast, productive. Had a 12 goals in 15 playoff games one year in the A. Was THN's minor pro prospect of the year.

Played 66 NHL games. Didn't even get to double digits in goals. I still don't get it.
 

Tarus

Registered User
Jun 22, 2006
9,578
4,857
Edmonton
Everything prior to 2009 can pretty much be chalked up to poor drafting, terrible ownership decisions regarding the farm team by EIG, and the wasteland that became of NHL level development system under the doofus that was Mactavish as an NHL coach. Getting drafted/traded for by Edmonton as an offense first prospect was pretty much a death knell for a productive career at the NHL level. Even guys like Gagner/Cogliano who only caught the tail end of that era, suffered some pretty severe career consequences with stunted development.

Post Mactavish, too many guys thrown into sink or swim situations. High end guys with the best opportunity to succeed did(Hall/Eberle). Mid-range guys that needed a more protected and measured development course struggled in an organization that was so busy looking at the finish line, it forgot that they had to get into the race first(Paajarvi, Hartikanen). Long shots that didn't fit a narrow need(size/toughness) were used sparingly and discarded due to their perceived lack of worth to the franchise.

Just a badly run organization all around, arguably the worst development team in the NHL. The prospects themselves may have been capable of being regular NHLers if they ever had a good coach, or strong feeder system, or a franchise that could deliver instructions to the players on development with any credibility, but we'll never know unfortunately.
 

Tad Mikowsky

Only Droods
Sponsor
Jun 30, 2008
20,857
21,559
Edmonton
I heard that Patrick O'Sullivan has a book coming out. (?)

What about him? He seemed to have a pretty good start in LA and than just disappeared off the face of the earth. He had an excellent opportunity with the Oilers and blew it IMO.

There's one guy I was really excited to acquire and I thought he would've been a good young fit.

Then the wheels just came off and he his play lived to his initials
 

joestevens29

Registered User
Apr 30, 2009
53,830
16,941
I heard that Patrick O'Sullivan has a book coming out. (?)

What about him? He seemed to have a pretty good start in LA and than just disappeared off the face of the earth. He had an excellent opportunity with the Oilers and blew it IMO.

I will be getting his book. It has been documented that he was abused by his father and that this lead to him not always mentally being there.

He had skill and was a damn good AHLer and had a damn good shot, but his drive just wasn't there. When he went to play for MIN and PHX I do think the talent was still there, he was elite level in the AHL but again just didn't have the drive to take the next step in the NHL.
 

Bangers

Registered User
May 31, 2006
3,919
868
While I do think a lot of the blame for Schremp not panning out falls at his own feet, I still blame the Oilers for their horrible decision to fold the farm team and loan their prospects out to other organizations. Schremp was one of the main prospects whose development was hurt by this, along with JDD and MA Pouliot (although Pouliot's health problems did him in as well). Plus, even once they finally got an AHL team again, their first coach was Buchberger, who had no business being the head guy.

Completely agree with your assessment on Omark.

I thought the Oilers completely mishandled Paajarvi and Lander; I was ok with bringing them to North America, but they shouldn't have been rushed to the big club. Lander eventually overcame how badly he was handled (hopefully he doesn't take a downturn this year), but I'll at least credit MacTavish with moving Paajarvi for Perron when he did.

I disagree that Gagner should have went back to junior; IMO, his play at the Super Series and early season play would have made that difficult. Plus, he probably wouldn't have developed much under Hunter and likely would have just put up a tonne of points. Still, I think he should have been put in more of a minor role for his rookie year and should probably have been sent to the AHL in his second year.

Plante was a bad pick who was done in by injuries. He was raw when he was drafted, so playing time was key for his development; his injuries prevented this. He may not have turned out anyways - definition of boom-bust pick.

Nash was just a bad pick. Moving up to get him? Even worse. Whatever happened between him and the organization just compounded the situation, but I completely blame the Oilers for drafting a player they shouldn't have and not dealing with him correctly.

I thought the Oilers did a good job of developing Hartikainen, but he just wasn't good enough for the NHL in the end. It happens. The fact that he got as far as he did (considering when he was drafted) is actually a plus for the organization. J.F. Jacques was similar; he was good in the AHL, but just couldn't take that last step.

Robert Nilsson had similar issues to Omark; I used to know a Swedish guy that played with him in the Swedish youth leagues . Obviously this is a gigantic pile of hearsay, but he told me that Nilsson was the kind of guy who was way better than everyone he played with at an early age, but not really that motivated to improve. From my viewings of him in the NHL, he was pretty soft.

O'Marra, on the other hand, just wasn't good enough and effectively plateaued in junior. He couldn't score in the AHL, which is generally a pretty good indication that a forward just doesn't have the skill level required.

Hamilton relied too much on his size in junior and wasn't able to adapt to the AHL effectively. His injuries didn't help, either.

Cogliano and Chorney probably should have finished their college careers (or at least one more year in Cogliano's case), and Cogliano probably should have spent more time in the AHL, but I'm not sure the Oilers are really to blame for either one. Most of Cogliano's (lack of) development with the Oilers was on him refusing to accept that he wasn't a top 6 player (which didn't dawn on him until he was traded), and I don't think Chorney was ever really talented enough to develop into more than an AHL/NHL tweener.

Paukovich was just a bad pick. There was nothing in his game that indicated he should have been a 2nd round pick.

IMO, Eakins and MacTavish screwed up with Dubnyk and Marincin.
 

Jimmi McJenkins

Sometimes miracles
Jan 12, 2006
77,851
40,517
Alberta
IMO, Eakins and MacTavish screwed up with Dubnyk and Marincin.

I will give you Marincin, but the Organization gave Dubnyk a DECADE, and he could never figure it out until he got thoroughly embarrassed by being trade/waived over and over.

I still think last year was an outlier, he's likely to not live up to the extension, he's not good.
 

joestevens29

Registered User
Apr 30, 2009
53,830
16,941
I will give you Marincin, but the Organization gave Dubnyk a DECADE, and he could never figure it out until he got thoroughly embarrassed by being trade/waived over and over.

I still think last year was an outlier, he's likely to not live up to the extension, he's not good.

And with the hiring of Chabot, DD might ruin himself again
 

Tarus

Registered User
Jun 22, 2006
9,578
4,857
Edmonton
And with the hiring of Chabot, DD might ruin himself again

Dubnyk had seasons of .916%, .914%, and .920% save percentages under Chabot. His collapse had a lot more to do with the arrival of Eakins than it did the goaltending coach.

If he fails in Minny, it likely won't be because of the goaltending coach, anymore than it was in Edmonton.
 

Jimmi McJenkins

Sometimes miracles
Jan 12, 2006
77,851
40,517
Alberta
Dubnyk had seasons of .916%, .914%, and .920% save percentages under Chabot. His collapse had a lot more to do with the arrival of Eakins than it did the goaltending coach.

If he fails in Minny, it likely won't be because of the goaltending coach, anymore than it was in Edmonton.

Yup, he did have those numbers, he also had many moments of weak goals and general inconsistency, which was clearly felt by his teammates.

Again, the Oilers did "nothing" to **** up Dubnyk, he was part of the organization for a Decade, and never bother to "figure it out" until after he left. And even that's up for debate at this point, given it sure just looks like a hot streak last year (see the hamburgler)
 

joestevens29

Registered User
Apr 30, 2009
53,830
16,941
Dubnyk had seasons of .916%, .914%, and .920% save percentages under Chabot. His collapse had a lot more to do with the arrival of Eakins than it did the goaltending coach.

If he fails in Minny, it likely won't be because of the goaltending coach, anymore than it was in Edmonton.

Bulin also put up similar numbers in the last two of those seasons, even better in the last season. The fact is those numbers are average at best anyway. .920 isn't what it use to be when multiple guys are around .930
 

Tarus

Registered User
Jun 22, 2006
9,578
4,857
Edmonton
Bulin also put up similar numbers in the last two of those seasons, even better in the last season. The fact is those numbers are average at best anyway. .920 isn't what it use to be when multiple guys are around .930

I wasn't arguing that he was good, just that there was a distinct change within the organization that didn't include the goaltending coach. A change that led to the widespread regression of the entire team, not just the goaltending.

Hell, just citing that Bulin had similar numbers(on similarly awful teams, with the same goaltending coach), is a decent example that things were relatively stable until Mactavish threw the franchise off a cliff with the Eakins hiring.
 

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