Post-Game Talk: Different night, same movie. 4-1 Jets over Canucks

[Cupless44]

Virtanen should go back to Junior after the WJHC based on his current play. He's just not playing assertive enough and doesn't appear to have confidence.

Yes Jake needs to assert himself more.

But while we are singling out young players why does Bo always get a free pass? Played better last night, though on for 3 goals against, which is happening a lot. But overall his play just hasn't been very good this year. Has to be considered a major disappointment so far. Bo is not ready for 2 C role or the ice time is getting penalty killing and powerplay.

For all the criticism of Sutter, he is clearly missed to take some pressure off Horvat and you can see why Benning brought him in for just that reason.

 

[Reign Nateo]

It's time for management to understand and acknowledge the need to focus on rebuilding and abandon the notion that they are truly competing for the playoffs. How the team looks and how management speaks do not align.

I didn't say to dump every veteran (I said move 2-3) so there is no "scorched earth" but merely being realistic and dropping this "we will always compete for a playoff spot" BS and acknowledge what is happening with this team. Keep the Sedins, Burrows, Sutter, and a few other vets and move out expiring contracts for whatever picks you can get.

And FFS, someone have a talk with Willie about how he uses his bench before we tank AND stunt our young kids growth.

Canucks management could very well know exactly were they are.

Seriously, don't put much stock into what they say. They're not saying these things for the benefit of the die-hards that discuss the team here. They say that stuff for the casual fans that would dry up if you told them we were trading everyone and trying to get high draft picks. Those fans are the majority, those fans are the masses you need to appease, those are the fans they are speaking to. And what they say means absolutely nothing about their actual plans. These teams literally have PR experts telling them what to say.

They may or may not be aware of what they actually have, but the comments to the media don't answer that for us.

 

[kanucks25]

Canucks management could very well know exactly were they are.

Seriously, don't put much stock into what they say. They're not saying these things for the benefit of the die-hards that discuss the team here. They say that stuff for the casual fans that would dry up if you told them we were trading everyone and trying to get high draft picks. Those fans are the majority, those fans are the masses you need to appease, those are the fans they are speaking to. And what they say means absolutely nothing about their actual plans. These teams literally have PR experts telling them what to say.

They may or may not be aware of what they actually have, but the comments to the media don't answer that for us.

I thought this was the case last year when that video came out of Benning saying Sbisa is a future top-4. I thought that was just lip-service for the casual fans to justify the trade.

Then he gives him that contract...

 

[CanaFan]

Canucks management could very well know exactly were they are.

Seriously, don't put much stock into what they say. They're not saying these things for the benefit of the die-hards that discuss the team here. They say that stuff for the casual fans that would dry up if you told them we were trading everyone and trying to get high draft picks. Those fans are the majority, those fans are the masses you need to appease, those are the fans they are speaking to. And what they say means absolutely nothing about their actual plans. These teams literally have PR experts telling them what to say.

They may or may not be aware of what they actually have, but the comments to the media don't answer that for us.

Fair. But you can understand why it can be troubling to hear them beat the playoffs drum as we approach a time that we should be cashing in vets for futures. Now in the end I will judge them by their actions rather than their words but in the meantime it is a little ... unsettling. But I agree with you and TPM in that time will tell (mainly after Christmas).

 

[Reign Nateo]

I thought this was the case last year when that video came out of Benning saying Sbisa is a future top-4. I thought that was just lip-service for the casual fans to justify the trade.

Then he gives him that contract...

That contract is simply one of the world's great mysteries.

 

[FroshaugFan2]

That contract is simply one of the world's great mysteries.

It's not a mystery at all. Benning thinks Sbisa is a good defenseman. It is what it us.

 

[Reign Nateo]

It's not a mystery at all. Benning thinks Sbisa is a good defenseman. It is what it us.

Even if you think someone is a good defenceman that contract makes zero sense. We were under no pressure to sign him without seeing him play for a longer period and would have had all the leverage on him as a RFA. Putting aside Benning's misguided opinion of Sbisa, this is the one move I cannot make sense of. Some of them fell flat (Vey/Clendening) and some of them were better than people thought (Dorsett/McCann), but they all made some kind of sense, even if they were mistakes. Signing Sbisa to that deal at that time made absolutely zero sense to me than and now.

 

[PM]

If there is one thing you can say about Benning it is that he is honest. Too honest actually. Anyone thinking that management is trying some "sneaky" tank is just kidding themselves.

 

[Pip]

Yes Jake needs to assert himself more.

But while we are singling out young players why does Bo always get a free pass? Played better last night, though on for 3 goals against, which is happening a lot. But overall his play just hasn't been very good this year. Has to be considered a major disappointment so far. Bo is not ready for 2 C role or the ice time is getting penalty killing and powerplay.

For all the criticism of Sutter, he is clearly missed to take some pressure off Horvat and you can see why Benning brought him in for just that reason.

Bo hasn't been given a free pass. Most have commented that he is in over his head in this role.

 

[Mofletz]

bad team is bad.

Overpaid average goalie with a big mouth.
Aging 1st line, 2 19 year old jr players, No defence depth. This team has too many plugs:bartkowski, weber, Biega, Sbisa, Dorsett, Prust, Cranknell, Higgins, Burrows.

the 3 rookies are turnover machines, they are not ready.

 

[FroshaugFan2]

Even if you think someone is a good defenceman that contract makes zero sense. We were under no pressure to sign him without seeing him play for a longer period and would have had all the leverage on him as a RFA. Putting aside Benning's misguided opinion of Sbisa, this is the one move I cannot make sense of. Some of them fell flat (Vey/Clendening) and some of them were better than people thought (Dorsett/McCann), but they all made some kind of sense, even if they were mistakes. Signing Sbisa to that deal at that time made absolutely zero sense to me than and now.

Miller didn't have any leverage when we were the only West Coast team looking for a goalie. Vey didn't have any leverage as a RFA coming off a disappointing season. Markstrom didn't have any leverage as a RFA AHL goalie.

Benning pays his guys what they ask for/ what he thinks they deserve. Leverage doesn't factor into it.

 

[Intangibos]

Lack is the new Santorelli around here I guess. The one that got away...

You have to fill out a roster, Prust is an expiring contract, think like NBA teams do. Future cap space has value now. Those guys are short term, they fill out the roster and don't change the direction of the team.

Why does Lack have to be the new Santorelli. Nobody thinks he is some elite savior goalie. We just think Lack + 4m in cap space > Miller and 0$ in cap space.

We could have waived Kassian and kept the 5th, and saved some salary space. We could have used that space to sign Fehr instead of Prust, and I've been very surprised with Prust this year. Fehr is still better.

Anyway, terrible coaching last night. Why the **** is Baertschi on the 4th line and Dorsett on the PP? Again, I thought Baertschi looked pretty good tonight although I did see a turnover in the defensive zone, it happens.

One of the goals against was one of the worst displays of defence I've seen in a long time. Bartkowski turned the puck once along the boards, then the puck came to him and he lost it again, and then he lost a battle in front of the net before the puck went in. Absolutely dreadful.

 

[CanaFan]

bad team is bad.

Overpaid average goalie with a big mouth.
Aging 1st line, 2 19 year old jr players, No defence depth. This team has too many plugs:bartkowski, weber, Biega, Sbisa, Dorsett, Prust, Cranknell, Higgins, Burrows.

the 3 rookies are turnover machines, they are not ready.

A few bad games recently, yes. "Turn-over machines" is a fairly large and inaccurate exaggeration.

Rookies aren't finished products and there should be no expectation that they are. "Being ready" means being able to play and learn at this level, not being perfect or mistake-free. As long as they aren't being physically overwhelmed then they are capable of remaining and improving in these areas. We aren't competing for the cup so I don't think these "mistakes" are critical impediments to this team. Best to give them some slack on the old leash so they can play with confidence rather than freak out at every small mistake which compounds the problem.

 

[Pip]

I think there's a big difference between being a rookie that's worth living with his mistakes, and one that is clearly not ready.

Hutton and McCann seem to be the former, Virtanen the latter.

 

[CherryToke]

it is rather shocking that our rookies are making rookie mistakes. why can't they play like they're in their primes? send them packing.

 

[thepuckmonster]

Why does Lack have to be the new Santorelli. Nobody thinks he is some elite savior goalie. We just think Lack + 4m in cap space > Miller and 0$ in cap space.

We could have waived Kassian and kept the 5th, and saved some salary space. We could have used that space to sign Fehr instead of Prust, and I've been very surprised with Prust this year. Fehr is still better.

Anyway, terrible coaching last night. Why the **** is Baertschi on the 4th line and Dorsett on the PP? Again, I thought Baertschi looked pretty good tonight although I did see a turnover in the defensive zone, it happens.

One of the goals against was one of the worst displays of defence I've seen in a long time. Bartkowski turned the puck once along the boards, then the puck came to him and he lost it again, and then he lost a battle in front of the net before the puck went in. Absolutely dreadful.

I don't disagree but I feel like waiving Kassian would have aired his dirty laundry to the public when it wasn't necessary. It's Kassian's own fault that his personal issues got out in Montreal, he could have probably had the Montreal organization willing to help him while he played since that obviously seems like that was their intent and they were aware of the situation.

Waiving a guy that most of the fanbase loved would have just led our media to find out why and that's not very professional.

From all sources I've read it seems like Fehr wanted to stay in the east so I don't know how feasible that would have been.

 

[Reign Nateo]

Miller didn't have any leverage when we were the only West Coast team looking for a goalie. Vey didn't have any leverage as a RFA coming off a disappointing season. Markstrom didn't have any leverage as a RFA AHL goalie.

Benning pays his guys what they ask for/ what he thinks they deserve. Leverage doesn't factor into it.

We have no evidence other than people's opinions around here whether or not any other teams wanted Miller. And it's the same posters saying we were the only team that wanted to sign him that are lambasting Benning for not trading him. Can't have it both ways! This move is still more explainable than Sbisa.

Vey's leverage was that RFA have to get raises. They probably could have haggled and saved 80-100K, but in the end they're paying him 65K this year. Trading for Vey was a mistake, re-signing him was a fairly inconsequential move and again made a lot more sense than signing Sbisa.

Markstrom again was an RFA and RFAs get raises. Add to that his numbers in the AHL and you get the contract he signed. It's far from hurting us right now. Again, this looks rational compared to the Sbisa deal!

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

Said it last time, perhaps one of the worst assembled teams since the Messier era. Looking like we'll replicate the results of the 97-98 season.

It all went to hell when we eroded our depth on D. Gone are the days of having consistent average-outstanding defense. We're relying on at least 3 AHL dman/bottom pairing dman to be adequate in a top 4 role. Weber and Sbisa are europe bound once their contract expires.

This will be a tough year to watch. Horvat is slumping. McCann, Hutton and Virtanen are beginning to tail off as we reach the quarter mark of the season. This is to be expected as it is their first full-season. Once the Sedins begin to sputter out, we will be near the basement of the league.

Should be better in a few years, but man...it is tough to watch these games right now.

 

[Reign Nateo]

Why does Lack have to be the new Santorelli. Nobody thinks he is some elite savior goalie. We just think Lack + 4m in cap space > Miller and 0$ in cap space.

We could have waived Kassian and kept the 5th, and saved some salary space. We could have used that space to sign Fehr instead of Prust, and I've been very surprised with Prust this year. Fehr is still better.

Would they be contending for a Cup with Lack and 4 million dollars? No, then I don't care. This team is rotten and needs a lot of help. I don't care to argue about every single move anymore.

Because you have to say the same things over and over again if you do, which brings me to your next point... Waiving Kassian would have been an awful move and I'm not even sure the NHLPA would have stood for it. The Canucks would have come off terribly as the news would most certainly have come out if he was abruptly waived. Not to mention the ****-storm from Canucks fans that would have occurred and the awkward training camp...

Fehr signed cheaply to play on a Stanley Cup contender, essentially hand-picking his team, why the **** would he sign the same deal here?

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

Said it last time, perhaps one of the worst assembled teams since the Messier era. Looking like we'll replicate the results of the 97-98 season.

It all went to hell when we eroded our depth on D. Gone are the days of having consistent average-outstanding defense. We're relying on at least 3 AHL dman/bottom pairing dman to be adequate in a top 4 role. Weber and Sbisa are europe bound once their contract expires.

This will be a tough year to watch. Horvat is slumping. McCann, Hutton and Virtanen are beginning to tail off as we reach the quarter mark of the season. This is to be expected as it is their first full-season. Once the Sedins begin to sputter out, we will be near the basement of the league.

Should be better in a few years, but man...it is tough to watch these games right now.

It's because we're missing a key area of a team: the middle.

There is almost a complete lack of 24-28 year old players, a group that should be able to take the offensive load off the Sedins while additionally sheltering the young guns when they falter. Our disgusting draft record for about six years has allowed this to happen. Other teams don't have this problem because they were able to get at least a few hits here or there - we had jack **** for six bloody years. Trying to trade for other team's castoffs hasn't helped at all.

This team is just plain improperly balanced. There's a good nucleus of youth on the way, a decent group of 30+ vets that can contribute some nights...but nothing in the middle (with the exception of Tanev.)

 

[thepuckmonster]

It's because we're missing a key area of a team: the middle.

There is almost a complete lack of 24-28 year old players, a group that should be able to take the offensive load off the Sedins while additionally sheltering the young guns when they falter. Our disgusting draft record for about six years has allowed this to happen. Other teams don't have this problem because they were able to get at least a few hits here or there - we had jack **** for six bloody years. Trying to trade for other team's castoffs hasn't helped at all.

This team is just plain improperly balanced. There's a good nucleus of youth on the way, a decent group of 30+ vets that can contribute some nights...but nothing in the middle (with the exception of Tanev.)

Completely agree. We needed at least something to pan out between 2008-2011 from our drafting to keep us afloat.

We really needed Jensen to have made it to the NHL by this point.

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

Completely agree. We needed at least something to pan out between 2008-2011 from our drafting to keep us afloat.

We really needed Jensen to have made it to the NHL by this point.

Hodgson wanting out, Schroeder busting, no 1st in 2010 and Jensen being mediocre have really ****ed this team for a while, at least until the kids reach their early 20s.

The Jensen pick in particular really stings. Hindsight is 20/20, but man...Jenner might be the best player on the BJs, Saad is great, Jurco has boatloads of skill, Jaskin looks good. In typical Canuck fashion, we had no luck.

But if you want to point to a problem area, that is it. It's pretty black and white.

 

[thepuckmonster]

Hodgson wanting out, Schroeder busting, no 1st in 2010 and Jensen being mediocre have really ****ed this team for a while, at least until the kids reach their early 20s.

The Jensen pick in particular really stings. Hindsight is 20/20, but man...Jenner might be the best player on the BJs, Saad is great, Jurco has boatloads of skill, Jaskin looks good. In typical Canuck fashion, we had no luck.

But if you want to point to a problem area, that is it. It's pretty black and white.

Well said. Jensen looked good at the time but it's just totally like us to lose out on the far superior players because we can't draft better than a 5 year old in a mock league.

Not to mention we did sweet **** all with the lower rounds those years too. Grenier just played his first NHL game and he was what? A 5th rounder in 2011? Sweet deal.

 

[VanJack]

I'm at the point where the mounting losses and egregious turnovers don't really bother me as much as getting the big picture right....I ask you, is it better for the 'Nucks to just squeeze into the playoffs and play another one-and-done series, or would the long-term development be better served by a tough year, a series of trade-deadline day dumping of veterans; and a higher draft pick....I think the answer is pretty obvious, even if the GM and President are still spinning the playoff yarn.

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

I'm at the point where the mounting losses and egregious turnovers don't really bother me as much as getting the big picture right....I ask you, is it better for the 'Nucks to just squeeze into the playoffs and play another one-and-done series, or would the long-term development be better served by a tough year, a series of trade-deadline day dumping of veterans; and a higher draft pick....I think the answer is pretty obvious, even if the GM and President are still spinning the playoff yarn.

I think even Benning and Linden know that this team is going nowhere and that a high draft pick is what they really need to build on going forward. But they'll never admit it because their boss wants his playoff revenue.