Did USA overtake Canada as 'The Best Hockey Nation'?

[connellc]

People who are answering, clearly aren't looking at trends and evidence. In 2004 (20 years ago) Robert Esche was the starting goalie for team USA in the world cup. Then it Switched to Miller, Quick, now Hellebuyck.

Canada went from Brodeur, Luongo, Price to....Binnington? Wrong direction for sure, and there's no excuse that he is one of our top goalies.

Then you look at registered hockey players...USA now has more than Canada and the population is 10 times as large. I knew it was only a matter of time before they caught up. I'd say Canada at this time actually has a very slight disadvantage ALTHOUGH we have the higher super high-end forward talent. The defense is solid, but 2014 was better.

I'm still not putting my eggs into this tournament...it's not a true best on best. I'd rather lose this tournament then have a false sense of accomplishment going into the 2026 Olympics, which is what really matters.

 

[JJ68]

wait wait....have the USA won a best on best tourney yet?? USA typical.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

As you mentioned, your forwards are not on the same planet as Bedard and Celebrini. Benson is debatable and more comparable to the best USA guys you mentioned. I hope we can agree on that.

Cooley has more points right now than Celebrini. Bedard barely has more. Whether Canada has the two best players long term with Bedard and Celebrini or not, we're talking about for that specific tournament where Cooley is older than both. He's also older now (you might cite "But Celebrini is a rookie" and yeah that's kind of the point). I don't see how Canada has some huge advantage with their top level forwards there two years back or even now. Even if they had the two best, it's not in some different stratosphere from Cooley to start off.

As I said, this is like the adults tournament. Even if Canada is granted the two best with McDavid and MacKinnon (and I think you can certainly make an argument for Matthews over MacKinnon but whatever), it's still not enough of an advantage right now when they are probably losing goaltending by a lot, are doing no better than drawing defensemen, and forward depth is also pretty much equal.

 

[Zarao71]

Beating Canada in Montreal with Trudeau in the house + the geo political sideshow is impressive.
NHL rules with a home game in Montreal used to be an automatic win for Canada. I fully expect to see a re match.
I don't care who's in goal for Canada. I have zero faith the Finns are beating an angry team Canada with NHL rules. See you in Boston.

 

[Mathieukferland]

Trudeau in the house + the geo political sideshow

As a Canadian, and I say this as non-politically as possible, I did not like this at all and the fact that a head of state was trying to turn a sporting event that he was at in person into a political event by doing interviews and advocating for certain things did not sit right with me.

Keep politics out of sport and just let the spectacle that is best on best hockey unite people from different countries in the enjoyment of the shared passion for the game

 

[Albatros]

As a Canadian, and I say this as non-politically as possible, I did not like this at all and the fact that a head of state was trying to turn a sporting event that he was at in person into a political event by doing interviews and advocating for certain things did not sit right with me.

Keep politics out of sport and just let the spectacle that is best on best hockey unite people from different countries in the enjoyment of the shared passion for the game

Nothing remotely new at these tournaments though.

 

[Devonator]

As far as top end talent, the US and Russia and Canada are all pretty even....Canada though still holds the best depth but the US in particular is catching up and if current trends hold, will surpass us soon in that area.....it is inevitable.....it will be interesting to see how Russia does in the future as well.

 

[Telos]

I think Canada is still king and nothing on earth comes close to touching that crop of forwards they have... The US might have the goaltending and defense to outlast them this tournament, but this isn't the Olympics, many nations are missing from the field, and a win here doesn't transfer ownership of the crown. If the US goes on and wins gold in the next Olympics then maybe there is a discussion for temporarily holding it

It's very hard given how fresh everything is to not allow geopolitics to bleed into the games given how much it means obviously to Canadians and more Americans than some realize. The only thing I'll say is that no matter what side you're on, virtually no one was thinking about slighting Canada during this last election cycle. While I was rooting for the US to win, I did find the victory a little bittersweet given the extra incentive Canada had for a win there in that moment.

I honestly think Canada is going to crush Finland (not that it's easy) and roar back into the finals for a rematch. I just hope for a great game and that any rivalry stays on the ice. I will say that this tournament has been far more interesting and exciting than I was expecting. The play we've seen from all of the teams has been amazing and fills a missing need from the sport in between the Olympics.

 

[chaser17]

Connor Bedard, Macklin Celebrini, Michael Misa, Matthew Schaefer, Gavin Mckenna, Landon DuPont, Maddox Schultz. Canada is gonna be just fine, Dupont is looking like he might be the best D prospect to ever come out of the WHL.

 

[SillyRabbit]

Connor Bedard, Macklin Celebrini, Michael Misa, Matthew Schaefer, Gavin Mckenna, Landon DuPont, Maddox Schultz. Canada is gonna be just fine, Dupont is looking like he might be the best D prospect to ever come out of the WHL.

None of those guys are goaltenders. And that's the problem for Canada.

 

[Spirits]

Did USA overtake Canada as 'The Best Hockey Nation', or 'The Best National Ice Hockey Team'?

I am not saying just because USA just beat Canada 3-1 infront of their own fans, but did USA just caugh Canada in terms of pruducing hockey talents?

Yes, USA has the population of 300+millions (almost 10 times more than Canada), but popularity of hockey in both countries are not comparable:
- In Canada random folks know something about hockey, hockey stars in general
- But in USA most of the folks don't care & know anything about hockey... if you catch random dude in NY, LA, Miami, Atlanta etc. and ask them about the legendary hockey players & current hockey stars they will say 'they have no idea about who they are' & won't even recognise even the most famous hockey players.

But at this time in 2025... Team USA looks better than Team Canada. What a time we live in!


---

Sorry, if it's hard to understand... English isn't my first language.

I think it is obvious that we (America) aren't the hockey producing country yet, but that is because our best athletes don't care about hockey. If hockey ever became a viable sport for many Americans, you wouldn't find many Canadians in the league within 20 years.

We would stomp the piss out of Canada in hockey if the best we had cared enough to play hockey. I think Canada is safe, however.

 

[Spirits]

That would be like the Canadians beating the US in a football game.

Simply would never happen lmao.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

The issue for the Americans and I am sure it may happen in Canada but to a much lesser extent.

The best athletes are usually good at various sports. Money wise, hockey is probably the last sport these kids would be pushed into. On top of the physical tool on their bodies.

One thing that would be a complete guess. I would assume hockey is sort of in the same boat as wrestling. In the sense that it is an all year round thing where the best youth talent in the USA and Canada are playing hockey and nothing else (especially in Canada and it being their national sport).

But any kid in the US that has that natural ability and the ability to make it pro in multiple leagues, more than likely isn’t playing hockey past youth league.

That’s why I don’t think the USA will pass Canada any time soon in hockey. You are talking about a still niche sport in this country compared to the #1 sport in another. Kids in Canada are born and grown into the world of hockey. The kids in the USA simply aren’t currently. Although the sport is growing and infrastructure is coming along.

But as I said, end of day (and assuming these kids having multiple avenues to potentially go pro), hockey is going to be near the last sport. (Because of money unfortunately)

Hockey is one of the fastest growing sports in the US. It's the new favorite sport for rich white kids.

While youth hockey participation in Canada shrinks, the US is seeing steady growth

While Canada has seen a steep decline in children playing hockey in the sport's birthplace, the United States has experienced steady growth in that department over the past decade.

apnews.com

 

[Mathieukferland]

None of those guys are goaltenders. And that's the problem for Canada.

Ravensbergen dominated the NTDP a few months ago when the CHL played them, he’s the best goaltending prospect since Askarov

 

[Eddie Munson]

Team USA has certainly closed the gap. The US seems to be churning out the better goalies right now. All three of the US goalies at this tournament would be the de facto team Canada starters. Having goalies that can steal games can change the outcome of any short tournament. I think that’s the X factor at this point.

 

[hockey20000]

usa wins this then wins the 2026 olympics next year? then sure i will say yes they have passed us canada. but theres a long way to go tell then lol

 

[ItsFineImFine]

Hockey is one of the fastest growing sports in the US. It's the new favorite sport for rich white kids.

While youth hockey participation in Canada shrinks, the US is seeing steady growth

While Canada has seen a steep decline in children playing hockey in the sport's birthplace, the United States has experienced steady growth in that department over the past decade.

apnews.com

Yeah it's a numbers game. Hockey's on the decline in Canada, no longer a working class sport either cos of inflation. In the US it's on the upswing but I think it will plateau there as well fairly soon (its popularity is declining in some of the traditional bigger US markets anyways) and then we'll probably reach an equilibrium but not quite there yet.

 

[FLAMESFAN]

Cooley has more points right now than Celebrini. Bedard barely has more. Whether Canada has the two best players long term with Bedard and Celebrini or not, we're talking about for that specific tournament where Cooley is older than both. He's also older now (you might cite "But Celebrini is a rookie" and yeah that's kind of the point). I don't see how Canada has some huge advantage with their top level forwards there two years back or even now. Even if they had the two best, it's not in some different stratosphere from Cooley to start off.

As I said, this is like the adults tournament. Even if Canada is granted the two best with McDavid and MacKinnon (and I think you can certainly make an argument for Matthews over MacKinnon but whatever), it's still not enough of an advantage right now when they are probably losing goaltending by a lot, are doing no better than drawing defensemen, and forward depth is also pretty much equal.

Cooley has 3 more points than Celebrini, and Bedard has 6 more points than Cooley.
Nevermind PPG.

Cooley is a good player, but a clear 3rd in these 3.

 

[NyQuil]

I think it is obvious that we (America) aren't the hockey producing country yet, but that is because our best athletes don't care about hockey. If hockey ever became a viable sport for many Americans, you wouldn't find many Canadians in the league within 20 years.

We would stomp the piss out of Canada in hockey if the best we had cared enough to play hockey. I think Canada is safe, however.

It’ll be pretty funny when a Canadian wins MVP of the NBA this year.

When’s the last time an American won? 7 years ago?

And we don’t even care about basketball, right?

 

[FLAMESFAN]

Simply would never happen lmao.

It actually has happened.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I think the tables have turned. Since 1996, usa has been almost as good as Canada, and good enough to worry the Canadians.

Now, I feel the tables have turned and canada is the one that's almost as good.

I think the Americans also recently jumped past Canada for most registered hockey players. It was inevitable, but the time has come.

We will see if someone arises as the head over heel hockey power, but I think gone are the days where Canada will consistently hold that post.

Canada holds the post until it's taken away and 1 round robin game is not enough to do that.
Others have challenged Canada before including America they have always failed in the end.

Remember when Canada didn't medal in 1998 at the Olympics? How about 2006?

Remember what hzppened in 2002, 2010 and 2014

What about the 2016 world cup?

Canada has been challenged before but in the end they have always stayed on top.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

I think USA is stronger on paper than Canada , I don't know why people take it so personally , I can't relate to any of these kids playing hockey growing up , gotta be quite privileged to do so , maybe that's why it's not such a big deal for me , good for the game that the USA youth program is so strong now

 

[RED ARMY EAST]

Canada have so much to pick from that they almost always pick the wrong guys outside of the clear cut ones. Overthink things, pick grinders instead of going all on talent, etc. But USA does have a comparable NT in terms of talent now

NoPietrangelo

As far as top end talent, the US and Russia and Canada are all pretty even....Canada though still holds the best depth but the US in particular is catching up and if current trends hold, will surpass us soon in that area.....it is inevitable.....it will be interesting to see how Russia does in the future as well.

usa wins this then wins the 2026 olympics next year? then sure i will say yes they have passed us canada. but theres a long way to go tell then lol

Canada is also missing Pietrangelo and Theodore on the backend end Makar didn't play against the US.
Some bad misses up front, leaving Scheifle and maybe Bedard off this roster.
Logan Thompson is having a stellar year in Washington.
Cooper has left some pretty good talent off this roster!

 

[Fitzy]

These threads are always so premature as a US hockey fan.

The US has advanced to the point where we can have a conversation about whether they're (possibly) approaching par with Canada, when the Canadians might not be considered the default favorites in any tournament. That's exciting AF. No reasont to even talk about 'surpassing' yet.

 

[RED ARMY EAST]

USA hasn't won a tournament since f***ing 1996.

ONE non-championship game doesn't change that.

Like, AT LEAST wait until Thursday.

Canada hasn't lost a single best on best game in 15 years.

They have a guy that went 26-0.

In order for Canada to be replaced as the greatest hockey nation, USA would have to beat that streak.

This is like if Canada beat USA in Basketball in one tournament, we wouldn't suddenly be the best Ball nation.

Mathis Rousseau isn't on the same planet as Trey Augustine and Jacob Fowler. I hope we can agree on that. And if we're talking about hypothetical rosters, I don't really care how he performed. He's not a top caliber NHL prospect.

We agree Canada had some big forwards missing, but as I mentioned the USA also would have a very impressive group of forwards. Cooley, Gauthier, Nazar, Snuggerud, Howard, McGroarty, Smith, Leonard, Perreault, Stramel, Moore, etc.

And as I mentioned, Canada's blue line you mentioned there is really not that impressive. USA has the best player on the two blue lines with Lane Hutson. They also have players such as Zeev Buium, Seamus Casey, Ryan Chesley, Sam Rinzel. I think USA would've probably had the better blue line.

Thus, I'll take the USA roster with much better goaltending, likely better defensemen, and not as good forwards but pretty close. Sounds a little like the game we saw last night, no?

Makar is the best D-man, period.