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Did USA overtake Canada as 'The Best Hockey Nation'?

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Peiskos said:
You're right the proof is in the pudding, Celebrini is clearly at the top of rookie scoring and has 40 points in 45 GP, Hutson has 41 points in 56 GP, so I think it's safe to safe he was one of the best players.

Bedard was clearly by far and away the best player for his class too and is already an all star from that class the only one from that class actually so I fail to see where you're going with this lol.
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So what about Lafreniere and Power? Are they the best player from their drafts?

Canadians are about to brag about them claiming 2025, 2026, and 2027 first overalls. No other country will have a first overall in that span. It's already baked into the equation. Everyone knows it. It'll end up 7 in 8 years.

And the number of first rounders is increasing every year. The experts talk about like 20+ Canadians in the first round this year.

I only see that as a real point in their favor if it materializes that they were the best in those regards. Thus, there's no point in bragging about it until we know for sure that they ended up with the best players. Yeah, you can cite Celebrini and Bedard (I actually don't think it's clear Bedard will be the best and Celebrini is literally the only 2024 eligible in the NHL so it's early to be sure of anything), but you're leaving out 2 of the other 4 you referenced. The results aren't exactly stellar in that sense. It's, at best, a mixed record, and I would argue the two drafts we are starting to get a good picture (2020 and 2021) don't lend towards what we were told by the experts.
 
Very close top level talent. Canada still dominates in total number of players.

Canada could field another competitive team (except maybe in goal).
 
Peiskos said:
But how is Canada staying stagnant? 4 of the last 1st overall picks in the NHL have been Canadian lol. Including the majority of the 1st round selections. The country has won more than anyone else even if you bring the sample size way down.

This argument would never be made if Sweden/Finland/US or anyone else produced 4 of the last 5 first overall picks and most of the 1st round selections, and the 2025 1st overall pick is very likely to be a Canadian as well, I don't see how producing the best top picks in the NHL practically every year is being stagnant?
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They are aren’t getting better comparative to their competition. Exactly what stagnant means. They haven’t place in juniors for multiple years. As others have stated their share of NHL players is also going down.

They lose this tourney and the Olympics, it’s time to take a look at what is going on with them.
 
The USA is doing a great job of producing elite hockey players, which is great for hockey.

Currently, over 14% of Canadian boys play minor hockey, and about 1.2 % of American boys play minor hockey. The total number of American boys is about 9 to 10 times more than the number of Canadian boys, so the number of hockey-playing boys in Canada is still greater, but not by a very big amount. They're in the same ballpark.

Is the US development system better than Canada's? Maybe, it's hard to say.
 
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Pavel Buchnevich said:
So what about Lafreniere and Power? Are they the best player from their drafts?

Canadians are about to brag about them claiming 2025, 2026, and 2027 first overalls. No other country will have a first overall in that span. It's already baked into the equation. Everyone knows it. It'll end up 7 in 8 years.

And the number of first rounders is increasing every year. The experts talk about like 20+ Canadians in the first round this year.

I only see that as a real point in their favor if it materializes that they were the best in those regards. Thus, there's no point in bragging about it until we know for sure that they ended up with the best players. Yeah, you can cite Celebrini and Bedard (I actually don't think it's clear Bedard will be the best and Celebrini is literally the only 2024 eligible in the NHL so it's early to be sure of anything), but you're leaving out 2 of the other 4 you referenced. The results aren't exactly stellar in that sense. It's, at best, a mixed record, and I would argue the two drafts we are starting to get a good picture (2020 and 2021) don't lend towards what we were told by the experts.
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I mean at most in a 2020 redraft, Laf is still a top 3 pick.
 
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Hockey4Lyfe said:
They are aren’t getting better comparative to their competition. Exactly what stagnant means. They haven’t place in juniors for multiple years. As others have stated their share of NHL players is also going down.

They lose this tourney and the Olympics, it’s time to take a look at what is going on with them.
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The US didn't medal at the world juniors in 2012, 2014, 2015, 2020, 2022. I wouldn't really read into the world juniors too much, if they were really barometers of future hockey prowess than the US would have a gold medal at the mens level more recently than 1996.

Canada similarly won back to back world juniors in 2022 and 2023. You can't win every year.
 
I've been saying before the tournament started that usa looks better than Canada in goal and on defense.

Goaltending is more obvious but with or without makar, this defense does not stack up to the teams before it either.

2014 had Keith, doughty (prime), Weber and peterangelo in the top 4.
 
Dr Jan Itor said:
Jarvis isn't in there either, though he's probably the first one out.

Stutzle, Raymond, Faber.
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I mean you realize this is all opinion right? I've seen many redrafts with Jarvis as a top 3 guy. His stats firmly put him in top 3 conversation.
 
BagHead said:
I think in a best-on-best, one team per nation tournament, it's fairly close between the two nations. I think if you were to create three teams per nation instead of just one, Canada's teams would have a better all-around record than any other nation's by quite a lot of wins. They're deeper than anyone else.
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I think the tables have turned. Since 1996, usa has been almost as good as Canada, and good enough to worry the Canadians.

Now, I feel the tables have turned and canada is the one that's almost as good.

I think the Americans also recently jumped past Canada for most registered hockey players. It was inevitable, but the time has come.

We will see if someone arises as the head over heel hockey power, but I think gone are the days where Canada will consistently hold that post.
 
JianYang said:
I think the tables have turned. Since 1996, usa has been almost as good as Canada, and good enough to worry the Canadians.

Now, I feel the tables have turned and canada is the one that's almost as good.

I think the Americans also recently jumped past Canada for most registered hockey players. It was inevitable, but the time has come.

We will see if someone arises as the head over heel hockey power, but I think gone are the days where Canada will consistently hold that post.
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US has no tournament wins at mens level since 1996 though, Canada has literally dozens. If the US wins this tournament it'll be the first win at the mens level internationally in this century.
 
Pavel Buchnevich said:
I doubt Canada wins 2024. 2025? Maybe it happens. USA absolutely destroyed everyone in winning 2024. They've always had the best 2004 age group.
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Fantilli-Bedard-Benson
Celebrini-Wright-Savoie
Yager-Geekie-Potrais
Minten-Beck-Danielson
Cowan

Korchinski-Lamoureux
Mateychuck-Bonk
Furlong-Warren

Rosseau

Really do not see how this team loses. I think they win easily. Bedard was far too good for this the year before. Almost would be adding 5 nhlers to the team.

Last month:

Celebrini-Bedard-Benson - this line would have made a joke out of the wjc
Cowan-Ritchie-Nadeau - this line would've played a role they were meant for
Mckenna-Catton-Yager
Beaudoin-Luchanko-Martone

Same D same goalies. Both teams walk to gold in my eyes
 
User9992 said:
Did USA overtake Canada as 'The Best Hockey Nation', or 'The Best National Ice Hockey Team'?

I am not saying just because USA just beat Canada 3-1 infront of their own fans, but did USA just caugh Canada in terms of pruducing hockey talents?

Yes, USA has the population of 300+millions (almost 10 times more than Canada), but popularity of hockey in both countries are not comparable:
- In Canada random folks know something about hockey, hockey stars in general
- But in USA most of the folks don't care & know anything about hockey... if you catch random dude in NY, LA, Miami, Atlanta etc. and ask them about the legendary hockey players & current hockey stars they will say 'they have no idea about who they are' & won't even recognise even the most famous hockey players. :help:

But at this time in 2025... Team USA looks better than Team Canada. What a time we live in! :eek3:


---

Sorry, if it's hard to understand... English isn't my first language.
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no canada we are better
 
Peiskos said:
US has no tournament wins at mens level since 1996 though, Canada has literally dozens. If the US wins this tournament it'll be the first win at the mens level internationally in this century.
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I'm talking specifically about the senior level best on best. We have not seen that since 2014, and things have changed since then.

I'm not saying the USA are coming in and will now dominate all the best tournaments. All I'm saying is that canada should no longer be considered a default favourite on the simple basis of being "Canada".
 
Screenshot_20250216_175146_NHL.jpg
Who's yo daddy? :yo:
 
JianYang said:
I think the tables have turned. Since 1996, usa has been almost as good as Canada, and good enough to worry the Canadians.

Now, I feel the tables have turned and canada is the one that's almost as good.

I think the Americans also recently jumped past Canada for most registered hockey players. It was inevitable, but the time has come.

We will see if someone arises as the head over heel hockey power, but I think gone are the days where Canada will consistently hold that post.
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If we're talking about trend then I agree, that is the trend and I think it happens that the Americans who are youths today may end up outdoing the Canadians who are youths today. If we're talking about this moment, you and I probably disagree in part, but not wholly, and we probably won't disagree at all 10 years from now.

Also, if we're only talking about a single team of Americans and a single team of Canadians, then yeah, I think the USA hangs with them just fine.
 
JianYang said:
I'm talking specifically about the senior level best on best. We have not seen that since 2014, and things have changed since then.

I'm not saying the USA are coming in and will now dominate all the best tournaments. All I'm saying is that canada should no longer be considered a default favourite on the simple basis of being "Canada".
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It'll be interesting,

US had their best drafts ever from 2016-2021, producing a lot of high end talent in the first round.

The last few drafts and the next couple appear to be canadian dominant.
 
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If the US wins this one and then the Olympics next year, they can at least hold the crown for the time being. They've had some good drafts from 2015-'19 but some lousy ones since 2020. In other words there might be a lull for them after this Tkachuk-era generation of players is older. That will be a little while, as this team is similar to the 1996 World Cup U.S. team where they were young and were in their primes. But eventually that team too got old and was showing its age even by 2002 since there weren't star players to replace them. Canada on the other hand has tons of talent just waiting to burst and the future drafts look stellar.
 
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