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Did USA overtake Canada as 'The Best Hockey Nation'?

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FissionFire said:
No tournament since Russia was banned has been a true best-on-best. You can’t ban a country that is good enough to win every tournament and then pretend it’s BOB. It’d be like banning the US or Canada and then trying to pretend it’s still a BOB format.
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Canada and US are certainly treating it as BOB. Neither Russia or Czech Republic have a realistic shot as their D Corps don't match up and neither does their depth upfront so I absolutely consider it BOB.

Believe what you want that's fine.
 
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Just step back from the OP's question and just acknowledge the trend over the past 50 or so years. In 1970 this question would be a joke. The US has made tremendous strides, and at this point "passing Canada" doesn't even really matter.

OT, but soccer in the US is probably around where hockey was here in the late 70s. Not a power yet, but you know it's going to happen. You can argue about the trees, but look at the forest instead.
 
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It’s pretty much tied, and USA has had the better of things the last 3 years. Could easily swing back in Canada’s favor. I don’t think the USA is about to run away from Canada, but I think if anything has occurred it’s that USA is now an equal. Canada is no longer THE hockey power on their own level.

Midnight Judges said:
A good barometer for this is the number or percentage of NHL players.

Canada is about 40%. USA is approaching 29%.

So no.
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Canada’s share goes down essentially every year, by the way.
 
ViD said:
And yet Canada won every best on best tournament since 2010, so I guess they’re doing something right
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There haven’t been any best on best since 2016. You should just say they won the best on best from 2010-2016, a period of time no one questions whether they were better. We’re nine years on from that.
 
Tutu to said:
Good news for fellow Canadians is that if you look at the last few drafts and the next couple Canada seems to have a pretty significant edge in elite talent. Hopefully we produce a few decent goalies.
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I don’t think the Americans agree with that.

Canada might end up with more higher drafted players, but that doesn’t mean they have better talent.

Essentially every nation per draft slot is overperforming, except Canada who is underperforming. The NHL draft system is broken. Canadians can cite that as their token to superiority, but they risk living in an echo-chamber. They control the NHL draft institution, but ultimately having the best professional players is what matters most, not who was drafted where.
 
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nORRis8 said:
Hmmm....not sure about that.
Hallebucyk is a very good goalie. Great in the regular seaon. Won a Vezina or two.
Come playoff time...the dude lays a deuce. Actually kinda lousy.

Adin Hill is having a strong season plus was the main reason Vegas won a Cup.
Binnington stepped up in the playoffs as well in 2019 enabling the Blues to win a Cup.
I have no problem with Binnington or Hill. Proven winners.
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Surely even if you want to bump Helle down a notch or two, the USA still has better goaltending? They have like 3 or 4 of the 10 best goaltenders in the world, and they’re basically all clear top 10 guys.

Canada doesn’t have any clear top 10 goaltenders. Maybe they have 1 that is having a hot season and sneaks onto spot 9 or 10.

archangel2 said:
Typical knee jerk thread to one game or Yanks being egotistical.

IIHF - World Ranking

The IIHF World Ranking, Last Update: 26 May. 2024
www.iihf.com www.iihf.com

Next update in rankings is in May
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This is unserious. No one considers Switzerland better than USA. It’s totally discrediting of a ranking to have them above.
 
Pavel Buchnevich said:
Surely even if you want to bump Helle down a notch or two, the USA still has better goaltending? They have like 3 or 4 of the 10 best goaltenders in the world, and they’re basically all clear top 10 guys.

Canada doesn’t have any clear top 10 goaltenders. Maybe they have 1 that is having a hot season and sneaks onto spot 9 or 10.


This is unserious. No one considers Switzerland better than USA. It’s totally discrediting of a ranking to have them above.
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the rankings are based upon ALL INTERNATIONAL play over the hockey calendar year not just one tourney or ONE GAME.
 
archangel2 said:
the rankings are based upon ALL INTERNATIONAL play over the hockey calendar year not just one tourney or ONE GAME.
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Okay cool, and no one cares about a ranking that doesn’t properly account for the things that matter (BOB, overall NHL talent, results in the biggest junior events).
 
I’m American and I think the gap has become minuscule I think the real gap is in the players Canada chose vice the talent gap. I’ve been to Canada a few times the way they are passionate about the sport is on a whole other level than the states, that said wow has America come far. The gap has definitely closed but hockey Canada needs a long look in the mirror their player choices are insane. This includes the world’s tourney too, insane player picks.
 
For those who do not follow international rankings. The rankings are based upon a full year of play of all tournaments played during that year and not just one or two games. The pts system is weighted, so last world championships the Swiss came second and the Yanks came 5th and that is one reason why they are ranked higher. So Yanks don't be so ass hurt that after one game we do not put on the mountain.

No one outside of North America is taking these games to serious. I live in the UK and even my buddies from Finland and Sweden are not taking the games meaning very much. They are watching but not taking them seriously. It is being viewed as a vanity project by the NHL
 
As a die hard hockey junkie and proud American it’s just nice to see the gap narrowed so much in my lifetime.

I think we’re honestly on equal footing and able to go toe to toe with the best. The progress of the US development program over the last 15 years has been tremendous. Most of our team USA players have come through the program.

It’s great to be able to watch these teams play and not know who is going to win. Intense competitive hockey.

Last nights game was unreal. The crowd in Montreal was epic. The players showed from puck drop how invested they were. And we had a tight 1 goal game with tons of skill and great hockey.

As a hockey fan that was one of the greatest games I’ve ever watched. Hockey at its highest level is so goddamn beautiful to watch. From McDavid to Matthews it was just unreal.

A 7 game series between these 2 teams would be biblical.
 
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Jumptheshark said:
For those who do not follow international rankings. The rankings are based upon a full year of play of all tournaments played during that year and not just one or two games. The pts system is weighted, so last world championships the Swiss came second and the Yanks came 5th and that is one reason why they are ranked higher. So Yanks don't be so ass hurt that after one game we do not put on the mountain.

No one outside of North America is taking these games to serious. I live in the UK and even my buddies from Finland and Sweden are not taking the games meaning very much. They are watching but not taking them seriously. It is being viewed as a vanity project by the NHL
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I promise you real hockey fans take the Four Nations more seriously than a random World Championships where more than 50% of the best rosters are not available. We're talking about maybe 5% of the best rosters for these Four Nations that aren't available. And the World Championships isn't allowing Russia currently either, so this is basically the best on best of what the hockey world currently allows.
 
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Hockey4Lyfe said:
You are thinking of this as a in totality aspect instead of a here and now situation.

Like the Canadiens and Leafs in the NHL. Yeah they may have the most cups, but no one in their right mind considers them the best organizations.

Still a long way for the above to hold true for Canada as a whole but your analogy is off base.

The better questions should be is why does it feel like Canada is staying stagnant while other countries, Finland, Sweden, USA with less of their overall population playing the sport is gaining on them?

That should be the question that Canadian fans should be thinking about and doing something about.

Like I said previously, Canada is still the best, but it is sooo much closer than it was previously.
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But how is Canada staying stagnant? 4 of the last 1st overall picks in the NHL have been Canadian lol. Including the majority of the 1st round selections. The country has won more than anyone else even if you bring the sample size way down.

This argument would never be made if Sweden/Finland/US or anyone else produced 4 of the last 5 first overall picks and most of the 1st round selections, and the 2025 1st overall pick is very likely to be a Canadian as well, I don't see how producing the best top picks in the NHL practically every year is being stagnant?
 
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