Speculation: Did Losing Dubinsky and Prust Crush the Rangers

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Everything that happened the following season had ZERO to do with Nash, nothing whatsoever. The lockout came, Richards regressed horribly, Gaborik regressed and was traded to replace the depth that idiot SATHER never replaced properly. Staal was injured.

:shakehead :speechles

I am beyond speechless that most people do not refer to these as the reasons (plural) why the team has fallen off. Not only that but they insist that the trade which made the team better is the sole, main culprit for the team falling off. Too many people just aren't very good at analyzing hockey I guess
 
No this is clearly all Rick Nash's fault. If he had never been born they would still be a Stanley Cup caliber squad. Curse you, Rick.

Its not all Nash's fault, but the Nash trade is a symptom is what went wrong here over the past 18 months.

Our fans, and the GM, seem to get fixated on one issue. "OMG we didnt score goals in the playoffs. NEED GOALS!" The Nash trade was made in a vacuum with little regard as to how it was going to effect the rest of the team.

You need to have a wider plan in place when pulling the trigger on such a big move. A plan that hopefully doesnt involve "Oh Aaron Asham and Taylor Pyatt will replenish the depth we lose"
 
Its not all Nash's fault, but the Nash trade is a symptom is what went wrong here over the past 18 months.

Our fans, and the GM, seem to get fixated on one issue. "OMG we didnt score goals in the playoffs. NEED GOALS!" The Nash trade was made in a vacuum with little regard as to how it was going to effect the rest of the team.

We trade for Nash but then jettisoned parts of the team & replaced them with guys like Clowe, Pyatt, Pouliott, Powe and Asham while having guys like Rupp, Bickle, Asham to replace them initially. Would our precipitous dropoff be bc we traded for Nash or b/c the team was very poorly assembled before and after the acquisition?

Hmmmmmm.

Good teams don't have this high a number of useless players on the team.

Add to that Callahan's a walking injury, Staal is too. Richards regression, gabs regression. No, the Nash is a symptom of nothing.
 
Its not all Nash's fault, but the Nash trade is a symptom is what went wrong here over the past 18 months.

Our fans, and the GM, seem to get fixated on one issue. "OMG we didnt score goals in the playoffs. NEED GOALS!" The Nash trade was made in a vacuum with little regard as to how it was going to effect the rest of the team.

You need to have a wider plan in place when pulling the trigger on such a big move. A plan that hopefully doesnt involve "Oh Aaron Asham and Taylor Pyatt will replenish the depth we lose"

Agree completely which is why it boils down to Sather and co. The vendetta against Nash for simply being acquired is comical.

If Nash is a perennial loser then so is Henrik Lundqvist since the only meaningful championship they both share is Olympic gold.
 
Not to over state, but a lot of us did point out the fact that Nash had not actually led anyone any where. He's a very talented offensive player, but I don't think too many people would accuse him of being a complete player on both sides of the puck. People just keep thinking because he's big and plenty skilled that that will be the difference maker. Obviously it's not. He's the kind of shiny toy player that fans and management want to see on Garden ice. Tort's could not motivate him. His presence in the play offs last year was....well muted would be a charitable word to use. Now AV is calling out the teams best players of whom Nash is one.

Look, honestly I was less than fired up about making the deal. But he's here. I want him to succeed. I was really worried about the team the Rangers would have around him, because Nash needs a lot of support. He can't carry a team on his back and he's been proving that for a decade.

To be fair, no one figured on Richie crapping the bed last year. Clearly the team missed what Dubi and Pruster put in the room and on the ice. This year changes and more people getting injured and crapping the bed. It's all about things coming together nicely and that's not happening.

In an ideal world you would be adding Nash to a team with decent scoring talent and tons of grit and character to put you over the top. But this is the New York Rangers and for reasons none of us will ever understand, they almost never get it right.

Makes sense. All i said was that he had no clue how the team would be.
 
Makes me sick when people call 11-12 a fluke. I love that team and season

Im not going to mince words here. I've found that the people who feel the need to bash that '11-12 team are rooted in a selfish fantasy regarding what a winning team needs to look like. Frankly, its an embarrassment to the spirit of competition and spits in the face of a Ranger team that was everything most Ranger teams haven't been over the past 8 decades.

That team won over 50 games, it won 2 playoff rounds, but it didn't do it pretty or decisive enough for most people. The lack of perspective is disgusting.
 
We trade for Nash but then jettisoned parts of the team & replaced them with guys like Clowe, Pyatt, Pouliott, Powe and Asham while having guys like Rupp, Bickle, Asham to replace them initially. Would our precipitous dropoff be bc we traded for Nash or b/c the team was very poorly assembled before and after the acquisition?

Hmmmmmm.

Good teams don't have this high a number of useless players on the team.

Add to that Callahan's a walking injury, Staal is too. Richards regression, gabs regression. No, the Nash is a symptom of nothing.

Good teams dont have a high # of roster turnover each season. That "useless" 11-12 team had 109 points, was 1st in the east, and won 2 playoff rounds for the first time since 1997.

They were something to build off of, not replace half the forward roster.
 
Agree completely which is why it boils down to Sather and co. The vendetta against Nash for simply being acquired is comical.

If Nash is a perennial loser then so is Henrik Lundqvist since the only meaningful championship they both share is Olympic gold.

I don't mind Nash. I do think someone needs to kick him in the ass.
 
Im not going to mince words here. I've found that the people who feel the need to bash that '11-12 team are rooted in a selfish fantasy regarding what a winning team needs to look like. Frankly, its an embarrassment to the spirit of competition and spits in the face of a Ranger team that was everything most Ranger teams haven't been over the past 8 decades.

That team won over 50 games, it won 2 playoff rounds, but it didn't do it pretty of decisive enough for most people. The lack of perspective is disgusting.

Good point, and I also think that people downplay that season to rationalize that this team is somehow better off now than we were in 2011-12. Plenty of fans hyped up the potential of the this year's team, as well as last year's, but the team has gotten progressively worse since 2011-12 and now we are looking at yet another roster shakeup.
 
Good point, and I also think that people downplay that season to rationalize that this team is somehow better off now than we were in 2011-12. Plenty of fans hyped up the potential of the this year's team, as well as last year's, but the team has gotten progressively worse since 2011-12 and now we are looking at yet another roster shakeup.

Agreed. Ive seen plenty of people talk about how they "enjoy the more exciting style" now -- with a team thats largely been indifferent and is 1 game under NHL .500. It makes them look like even bigger idiots.

...speaking of which, where has Snowblind been?
 
That does not mean that the players were not playing hard.

If you didn't play hard under him, you didnt play. Seems like a good rule.

The mental midgets revolted, and now we're left with this -- a team that seems to think it can get by on skill but quite clearly cant.
 
The lack of perspective is disgusting.

Since we aren't mincing words,that team is no more.It ain't coming back.Give it a rest FFS.

What does a winning team look like? It doesn't look like a team that gasps like a fat kid climbing the stairs to beat the $#%ing 7th and 8th seeds and then flame out against the 6th seed after cranking 51 regular season wins out.

Win 51 regular season games,you shouldn't be fighting and clawing to beat #7 and 8.

The problem is Cigarface.He is the smartest guy in the room and the smartest guy in the arena at all times.

Every miscue comes from him.Period.Full Stop.
 
Since we aren't mincing words,that team is no more.It ain't coming back.Give it a rest FFS.

What does a winning team look like? It doesn't look like a team that gasps like a fat kid climbing the stairs to beat the $#%ing 7th and 8th seeds and then flame out against the 6th seed after cranking 51 regular season wins out.

Win 51 regular season games,you shouldn't be fighting and clawing to beat #7 and 8.

The problem is Cigarface.He is the smartest guy in the room and the smartest guy in the arena at all times.

Every miscue comes from him.Period.Full Stop.

Im more than happy to talk about this team, if you can find anything good about it.
 
Im not going to mince words here. I've found that the people who feel the need to bash that '11-12 team are rooted in a selfish fantasy regarding what a winning team needs to look like. Frankly, its an embarrassment to the spirit of competition and spits in the face of a Ranger team that was everything most Ranger teams haven't been over the past 8 decades.

That team won over 50 games, it won 2 playoff rounds, but it didn't do it pretty or decisive enough for most people. The lack of perspective is disgusting.


Agreed 1000%. I cant really argue with people who say it was a fluke. Its just a ridiculous thing to say
 
Since we aren't mincing words,that team is no more.It ain't coming back.Give it a rest FFS.

What does a winning team look like? It doesn't look like a team that gasps like a fat kid climbing the stairs to beat the $#%ing 7th and 8th seeds and then flame out against the 6th seed after cranking 51 regular season wins out.

Win 51 regular season games,you shouldn't be fighting and clawing to beat #7 and 8.

The problem is Cigarface.He is the smartest guy in the room and the smartest guy in the arena at all times.

Every miscue comes from him.Period.Full Stop.


The playoffs are full of "fighting and clawing". Did they beat those teams though? Oh ok.Would you have preferred losing 52 games?
 
Funny that his tenure ended shortly after break-up day, and John himself claimed to be shocked. A coincidence surely.

Swedish posters here were speculating and posting about rumors they heard regarding Lundqvist's disdain towards Torts. Then there was the Avery tweet. John admitted he hurt his relationship with Richards.

You can call BS all you like but to me everything that occured surrounding John points to his team, or at least a small yet important part of it, had enough of him and forced Sather's hand.

The point is this, one way or another John ran himself out of town because of the relationship deteriorating between he and key players.

There were a few factors, and at the core of it is Torts disregard for what other human beings think or feel. Torts' pressers became bigger than the team, the reporters stopped reporting on hockey and more on their disdain for him that ultimately what hurts the Garden's public perception.

All of the other stuff is a part of it, but given how he was let go, it was much more than Players v Torts. Lundqvist was on record, as was Torts about their excellent relationship, as was Biron, but some of the other guys had enough, namely star players. He did this in Tampa with Vinny for years.

I- Gaborik treatment last year that caused Gaborik to want out. That trade was consumated in a day according to JD.

II- Publicly calling out Sather for removing the "middle of the lineup"

III- Two games where the players mailed it in MTL and BUF last year.

IV- Off the record treatment of press members. Torts had his favorites, some were treated exceptionally well, and others derisively challenged.

V- Power Play

VI- Richards treatment that brought them to a head.

VII- Breaking out of the zone.

VIII- How he treated some MSG media members, being totally disrespectful towards Sam Rosen & Joe Michaeletti a number of times.

I'm a fan of what Torts did during his tenure here, but let's call a spade a spade, the guy made his own bed.
 
There were a few factors, and at the core of it is Torts disregard for what other human beings think or feel. Torts' pressers became bigger than the team, the reporters stopped reporting on hockey and more on their disdain for him that ultimately what hurts the Garden's public perception..

We're gonna go here? Really?

AV's approach calling out the Rangers personnel as inadequate through the press is a better way to go about it?
 
Im not going to mince words here. I've found that the people who feel the need to bash that '11-12 team are rooted in a selfish fantasy regarding what a winning team needs to look like. Frankly, its an embarrassment to the spirit of competition and spits in the face of a Ranger team that was everything most Ranger teams haven't been over the past 8 decades.

That team won over 50 games, it won 2 playoff rounds, but it didn't do it pretty or decisive enough for most people. The lack of perspective is disgusting.

They overachieved, I'm glad they did and I commend them for their efforts. To be brutally honest though, they didn't win anything. It's become a '94 lite situation around here.

It also filled people with a false hope and gave everyone the illusion that this team was closer than it actually was.

We're gonna go here? Really?

AV's approach calling out the Rangers personnel as inadequate through the press is a better way to go about it?

Are you going to try and say Torts didn't do that?

People are criticizing AV for the exact reason that loved Torts.
 
We're gonna go here? Really?

AV's approach calling out the Rangers personnel as inadequate through the press is a better way to go about it?

It's getting to AV. Losing in NY isn't fun, and what he said is the truth. What Torts said was the truth too, but both guys said things they shouldn't have at the pressers, but it doesn't change the fact that this team is best suited to play a certain way with the majority of the roster.
 
They overachieved, I'm glad they did and I commend them for their efforts. To be brutally honest though, they didn't win anything. It's become a '94 lite situation around here.

It also filled people with a false hope and gave everyone the illusion that this team was closer than it actually was.



Are you going to try and say Torts didn't do that?

People are criticizing AV for the exact reason that loved Torts.

Ive never once presented an argument stating that team won anything more than they actually won. They did overachieve, and they were an admirable team because of that. They played with pride, which is something I've rarely seen as a Ranger fan. The reason is keeps getting brought up is because people tend to believe we are in better shape now, which is a fallacy.

As for the media, Torts was a master at shielding his team from the media. He made it about himself. That rubbed some people the wrong way -- not me. Those vultures are nothing more than a distraction.
 
I don't think we'd see as much talk about the 2011-12 team if the current team actually played with heart, determination, or had any type of identity. Right now, the players are floating, they admit they need to stop floating in the post-game, and then they proceed to float around in the next game. It's disappointing how their effort has fallen off a cliff.
 
I don't think we'd see as much talk about the 2011-12 team if the current team actually played with heart, determination, or had any type of identity. Right now, the players are floating, they admit they need to stop floating in the post-game, and then they proceed to float around in the next game. It's disappointing how their effort has fallen off a cliff.

Also, if this team showed any signs that they will improve as the season goes on.

Right now we are stuck watching a .500 team who plays like they just want the game to end so they can go out and have fun in the big city. No leadership, no change. Collect your paycheck and float in the game.
 
I don't think we'd see as much talk about the 2011-12 team if the current team actually played with heart, determination, or had any type of identity. Right now, the players are floating, they admit they need to stop floating in the post-game, and then they proceed to float around in the next game. It's disappointing how their effort has fallen off a cliff.

This is called stepping up for your teammates. How long did the Habs wait for a response? I don't even think it was 2 seconds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Krdcc3OqphI
 
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I don't think we'd see as much talk about the 2011-12 team if the current team actually played with heart, determination, or had any type of identity. Right now, the players are floating, they admit they need to stop floating in the post-game, and then they proceed to float around in the next game. It's disappointing how their effort has fallen off a cliff.

That's my biggest issue with this year's team. The way they've been playing I feel like there's really nothing to root for or get excited about except watching Kreider develop. I feel indifferent when watching them just like the way they've been playing. It's gotten bad enough that I switched to the Devils/Jackets game the other night cause I couldn't take it anymore. :shakehead
 

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