Did Lombardi do enough for this team at the trade deadline?

[Bandit]

Didn’t read all the posts, but IMO the Kings made a strategic decision to not make any drastic change to the roster in the off season due to the lockout and a couple of injuries.

With the injuries and top lines signed, I believe this was an easy decision. Why cut up a team that can hopefully re-boot and move forward, than try to adjust with multiple new players in a shortened season with many questions going into 13-14.

This overall thinking I believe drove the trade deadline decisions to do basically nothing. The long term injury to Mitchell was the only reason the Regehr trade was made, nothing else.

The reality is and based merely on finishing position, that strategy did move the Kings into a better finishing position. Now can that be parlayed into another Cup, probably not. Unlike last season when the Kings owned Vancouver like a Pimp ***** slapping his Ho, they will be a sore bunch after the St. Louis series.

But, by not making drastic moves then, IE moving Bernier/Voynov… for a potential 1-hit wonder in the off season. The Kings have solidified their position in the following seasons by being patient and make the other teams come to them for talent, not the other way around. That is how the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, see our own history year 1 thru about year 44. I believe Lombardi learned this from his San Jose days at the end and in Philly.

I think it is far more important to be a sold franchise, win and then make the move(s) at the deadline to make a run. Rather than trade and sign like an idiot at the start of the season constantly then spend the deadline trying to root out the cancer, then repeat.

Nice post, good analysis.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Didn’t read all the posts, but IMO the Kings made a strategic decision to not make any drastic change to the roster in the off season due to the lockout and a couple of injuries.

With the injuries and top lines signed, I believe this was an easy decision. Why cut up a team that can hopefully re-boot and move forward, than try to adjust with multiple new players in a shortened season with many questions going into 13-14.

This overall thinking I believe drove the trade deadline decisions to do basically nothing. The long term injury to Mitchell was the only reason the Regehr trade was made, nothing else.

The reality is and based merely on finishing position, that strategy did move the Kings into a better finishing position. Now can that be parlayed into another Cup, probably not. Unlike last season when the Kings owned Vancouver like a Pimp ***** slapping his Ho, they will be a sore bunch after the St. Louis series.

But, by not making drastic moves then, IE moving Bernier/Voynov… for a potential 1-hit wonder in the off season. The Kings have solidified their position in the following seasons by being patient and make the other teams come to them for talent, not the other way around. That is how the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, see our own history year 1 thru about year 44. I believe Lombardi learned this from his San Jose days at the end and in Philly.

I think it is far more important to be a sold franchise, win and then make the move(s) at the deadline to make a run. Rather than trade and sign like an idiot at the start of the season constantly then spend the deadline trying to root out the cancer, then repeat.

Sounds good, but that doesn't change the fact that Penner wasn't working out (as usual) and being scratched every other game. That leaves a big, top-6 LW hole. I'm curious what DL thought about this...was he going to make a move if a top-6 was available, or figure just stick it out and hope Penner shows up in the playoffs?

 

[CowMix]

Sounds good, but that doesn't change the fact that Penner wasn't working out (as usual) and being scratched every other game. That leaves a big, top-6 LW hole. I'm curious what DL thought about this...was he going to make a move if a top-6 was available, or figure just stick it out and hope Penner shows up in the playoffs?

And man now that Penner has shown up DL looks like a genius.

 

[kingsfan]

bottom line jokien can and has shown he can play in to top 6 with success. The gamble of a 7th round or hell say 6 th round would be well worth it. 3.5 million isnt that hard of a sell when u think of the upgrade it would be over playing king there.14 point in 20 game is a good start to me. So is his 10 points in 11 game in pittsburgh. this is frist 2nd line production and sure as hell better then king. Yes we do have room for improvement if u do the buyout of mitchell or (trade stolll giving lewis 3rd line center) which if hes not ready to play u have to think about. Yes there will be changes and most of it will be having promotions from within.

The 10 points in 11 games is moot since that happened after the trade deadline, so it didn't factor into any decision-making.

And it is an easy sell... to you, and to me and to DL and maybe DS (assuming DS wanted him), but none of those guys are paying the bills. You seem to be ignoring the fact that that is a ton of money to toss to a question mark type acquisition with a very real chance he'll play no more than 10 regular season games for the team. That's not the type of thing ownership tends to rubber stamp, nor should they. You don't get rich tossing around money like that.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

The 10 points in 11 games is moot since that happened after the trade deadline, so it didn't factor into any decision-making.

And it is an easy sell... to you, and to me and to DL and maybe DS (assuming DS wanted him), but none of those guys are paying the bills. You seem to be ignoring the fact that that is a ton of money to toss to a question mark type acquisition with a very real chance he'll play no more than 10 regular season games for the team. That's not the type of thing ownership tends to rubber stamp, nor should they. You don't get rich tossing around money like that.

I remember reading somewhere ( i think it was mayor but i could be wrong ) before the deadline dean was given the green light to spend whatever was needed to improve the team. If the kings get one more home game with him they more then make up the difference of his 3.5 buyout. Its not like the other buyouts we ve seen in comparison it next to nothing. Imo to win u need to take calulated risks and getting him or someone else to upgrade the wing at such a cheap price would have been worth it. to a billionare 3.5 million isnt that much. So the decesion come down to dean and didnt have to be rubber stamped he was told he could before hand.

 

[Whiskeypete]

i think Dean did what he decided needed to be done for this year, with an eye to the long term success of the team weighing heavily on that decision. i agree with magicman's assessment now and going into the deadline this was my preference on how he handle it.

he didnt have much to deal with when it came to draft picks due to the previous trades for Penner, Carter, etc. he was handcuffed by the injuries/cap situation with Greene and Willie. he knew he was also going to have to sign a lot of guys this summer whether they are RFAs or UFAs, so why gamble on the unknown?

he also clearly did not want to move the rights to what will likely be the future 2nd core - Toffoli, Vey, Muzzin, Voynov, forbort, etc. those kids will in time replace the existing core, Dean's first core he built the team on.

i strongly feel also that since he kept the team intact into this year (in large part), he was leaving it to them to repeat. remember when he fired TMu and the statement was made by him, Dustin and others about it coming down to the players to perform. the on ice performance is where it has to happen ultimately. he had to do something to help with the D situation because of Mitchell and Greene. he went out and got depth in Ellerby and Regehr. he backfilled spots that needed to be filled and went forward with the same guys and formula that won it last year.

dean plays chess. most of the naysayers, talking heads and internet GMs play checkers. dean is playing out his moves months and years in advance, while the rest of us are reacting to something that is just occurring.

SC 2012.....in DL we trust

 

[theMajor]

i think Dean did what he decided needed to be done for this year, with an eye to the long term success of the team weighing heavily on that decision. i agree with magicman's assessment now and going into the deadline this was my preference on how he handle it.

he didnt have much to deal with when it came to draft picks due to the previous trades for Penner, Carter, etc. he was handcuffed by the injuries/cap situation with Greene and Willie. he knew he was also going to have to sign a lot of guys this summer whether they are RFAs or UFAs, so why gamble on the unknown?

he also clearly did not want to move the rights to what will likely be the future 2nd core - Toffoli, Vey, Muzzin, Voynov, forbort, etc. those kids will in time replace the existing core, Dean's first core he built the team on.

i strongly feel also that since he kept the team intact into this year (in large part), he was leaving it to them to repeat. remember when he fired TMu and the statement was made by him, Dustin and others about it coming down to the players to perform. the on ice performance is where it has to happen ultimately. he had to do something to help with the D situation because of Mitchell and Greene. he went out and got depth in Ellerby and Regehr. he backfilled spots that needed to be filled and went forward with the same guys and formula that won it last year.

dean plays chess. most of the naysayers, talking heads and internet GMs play checkers. dean is playing out his moves months and years in advance, while the rest of us are reacting to something that is just occurring.

SC 2012.....in DL we trust

one of the best posts ive seen so far on this board, bravo good sir!

 

[kingsfan]

I remember reading somewhere ( i think it was mayor but i could be wrong ) before the deadline dean was given the green light to spend whatever was needed to improve the team. If the kings get one more home game with him they more then make up the difference of his 3.5 buyout. Its not like the other buyouts we ve seen in comparison it next to nothing. Imo to win u need to take calulated risks and getting him or someone else to upgrade the wing at such a cheap price would have been worth it. to a billionare 3.5 million isnt that much. So the decesion come down to dean and didnt have to be rubber stamped he was told he could before hand.

I didn't read that, so I'd like to. If you can find a link, could you please post it.

Keeping on with my opinion for now (perhaps it may change based on this article you mention) I'd question anyone saying that Jokinen is what would be the difference in giving us another home game or not. The reason I say that is because if you think Jokinen would be the key piece, then there's just as much to support Penner being that piece (could return to playoff form from last year) or Toffoli (has potentially more upside that Jokinen for sure). Jokinen is at least as big of an 'if' as those two, and he's not as well know in the organization, not to mention he costs more in guaranteed money.

Bringing in the other buyouts is not important. Those are different teams and those teams felt those buyouts were the right thing to do. I can guarantee that not all teams are going to do buyouts this off-season or next off-season, even though almost every team can make a case for a buyout on their roster. Some ownerships support them, some don't, and we have no way of knowing what the Kings ownership will support, especially if they were to contemplate putting the team/AEG back on the market again.

Once again, I agree that it would have been worth the upgrade...to you and me. You and me aren't DL, DS or the men who would have to pay out the $3.5 million.

And to say a billionaire thinks $3.5 million isn't that much is faulty logic. If they thought it wasn't that much, they wouldn't be in the position they are in now. These guys are smart with their money, at least when it comes to their investments.

 

[Sheng Peng]

I think Lombardi did what he wanted to do under the constraint of managing future cap space. So that's good enough for me. I would've liked Bouwmeester, but not with a six mil cap hit next season.

It's easy to anoint a guy like Jokinen as a "savior" in hindsight, but he's the same guy who was cut by a terrible team. There's a reason why he was available so cheaply, and he could've just as easily flopped with us.

I am worried about the immediate future of the Kings' defense. Voynov's raise, Regehr and Scuderi's regression/UFA status, and Mitchell's knee are big offseason concerns, no matter what happens in the playoffs. I can see Lombardi possibly saving some key assets (Bernier, Toffoli) for a big move this offseason for a younger, cheaper defense-first top-four guy to anchor the team for years. Of course, young top-four defenders are rarely available, and they weren't available this past deadline.

 

[kingsfan]

My only concern for the D is getting Voynov resigned, and doing so in a manner which is resonably cap friendly.

Assuming we can do that, we have:

Doughty-Voynov
Greene-Martinez
Muzzin-Ellerby

Not dynamite compared to last year, but really, that D stacks up well against many other D's in the league. I think our expectations have been spoiled by the greatness we've had on D recently.

If one of those guys were to falter/get hurt, we would then have to look at a trade, but for now, that top 6 is steady, and likely will only get better considering much of it is very young still.

Our real issue is getting some depth in place. Deslaurier IMO isn't ready yet and guys like Kolomatis and Campbell I don't think are capable of playing more than a game or two here and there at the NHL level. We lack that guy who can step in due to injury and play and play well, like we've had with Martinez and Voynov and Muzzin and Drewiske in the past. Forbort needs time too, so he's not the answer.

I think DL will target a veteran #7 in UFA, or possibly via the Bernier trade.

 

[etherialone]

To the original question I would answer yes.

DL was in a terrible position and did the absolute best that could be done to get us as much as he could without doing any damage to our team.

We have multiple UFA's this offseason, two injured key Dmen and JB to move for top value at some point.

He picked up RR who has done a solid job all things considered that is a UFA so we aren't committed to him long term just yet and the rest is the rest.

We will see a much different Kings team next season and in the end I think we are going to be more than ready to make a big push towards dominance and another cup. DL did what he could and deserves consideration for top GM.

 

[kingsfan]

I think next years team will be hampered a bit due to the fluxuation you mentioned TG and the fact the cap is going to limit how much we can do to off-set that. So next year could be a struggle in the sense of making a huge Cup push (I think we'll still be in the mix regardless). After that though, barring any setbacks such as injuries, Quick falling off the earth, Brown leaving as a UFA, etc. we'll be ready to rock and roll for several more years to come.

A lot like Chicago without all the cap drama and related speed bump following their cup win.

 

[etherialone]

I think next years team will be hampered a bit due to the fluxuation you mentioned TG and the fact the cap is going to limit how much we can do to off-set that. So next year could be a struggle in the sense of making a huge Cup push (I think we'll still be in the mix regardless). After that though, barring any setbacks such as injuries, Quick falling off the earth, Brown leaving as a UFA, etc. we'll be ready to rock and roll for several more years to come.

A lot like Chicago without all the cap drama and related speed bump following their cup win.

You could be closer to right then me but I am riding on some great news from earlier today so I am in a very optimistic mood. (not Kings related)

 

[KingCanadain1976]

I didn't read that, so I'd like to. If you can find a link, could you please post it.

Keeping on with my opinion for now (perhaps it may change based on this article you mention) I'd question anyone saying that Jokinen is what would be the difference in giving us another home game or not. The reason I say that is because if you think Jokinen would be the key piece, then there's just as much to support Penner being that piece (could return to playoff form from last year) or Toffoli (has potentially more upside that Jokinen for sure). Jokinen is at least as big of an 'if' as those two, and he's not as well know in the organization, not to mention he costs more in guaranteed money.

Bringing in the other buyouts is not important. Those are different teams and those teams felt those buyouts were the right thing to do. I can guarantee that not all teams are going to do buyouts this off-season or next off-season, even though almost every team can make a case for a buyout on their roster. Some ownerships support them, some don't, and we have no way of knowing what the Kings ownership will support, especially if they were to contemplate putting the team/AEG back on the market again.

Once again, I agree that it would have been worth the upgrade...to you and me. You and me aren't DL, DS or the men who would have to pay out the $3.5 million.

And to say a billionaire thinks $3.5 million isn't that much is faulty logic. If they thought it wasn't that much, they wouldn't be in the position they are in now. These guys are smart with their money, at least when it comes to their investments.

not the one i read i think but has quotes from Leiwiske i remembered so http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/lak130111.html

 

[kingsfan]

not the one i read i think but has quotes from Leiwiske i remembered so http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/lak130111.html

Interesting, and could be accurate, but it is different than what we are discussing here.

Firstly, it is spending 'cap space.' That doesn't necessarily equate to real dollars. Ask the Islanders about Tim Thomas on that one.

Secondly, that only refers to this season. The big issue with Jokinen isn't this season, it's next season, when he's owed $3 million.

Thirdly, if I'm not mistaken, those comments were made when the team was reportedly up for sale. Budgets get slashed/hiked during a sale, depending on what ownership wants to promote during the sale. Ask Dallas about that.

Fourthly, those comments were made by someone who wasn't with the team anymore at the time of the tarde deadline, if I have my dates correct in my mind. That free spending mentality could have been fostered by Leiweke, and it may not be shared by the new governor (though I personally do not think they are going to be to far off, but I have no grounds for that other than my own opinion).

 

[Reclamation Project]

I'm not acting like Jokinen would have been the piece guaranteeing us another Cup, but I do believe he would have added valuable depth at a position we yearn for. I also thought his contract expired this year, not next, that was my mistake. However I still believe he would have been a valuable asset to this team, even next year. A veteran player at a position we need with playoff experience. I know he had a down year, but to be honest I wouldn't put much stock into anyone's year on that team. He potted 11 points with the Pens. It could easily be a product of his linemates or it could be him finding his game in new scenery. I'd say the latter. He would have looked good on the third line. No use worrying about it now though.

I'd rather stand pat with our injuries than overpay for a temporary stop gate that would bite us in the ass next year. Dean is a smart dude and I trust him. He knew the market better than us. Regehr will be re-signed and will take Mitchell's spot. Dean will also need to acquire a veteran defenseman and another top six winger. That will do wonders.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

well to me do what he has to do to defend the cup to me means exactly that make the decesions to defend the cup if it means adding stuff to next years cap so be it. I also think it means he had permission to do whatever he felt needed to be done. Now i do think the 3 million extra year had a lot to do with him not being aquired perhaps he thought the upgrade wasnt worth it. I do trust in Dl and so far hes made more right then bad decesions i just think in this case he was wrong As far as what ur saying about the qutoes I dont see it changing after lewiskie left I would think once a decesions been made its pretty set.

 

[Sheng Peng]

Doughty-Voynov
Greene-Martinez
Muzzin-Ellerby

Greene-Martinez aren't legit top-four guys, and I don't believe that second pairing matches up all that well with other contenders. They make a great bottom-pairing and an below-average to average second pairing.

 

[etherialone]

i think Dean did what he decided needed to be done for this year, with an eye to the long term success of the team weighing heavily on that decision. i agree with magicman's assessment now and going into the deadline this was my preference on how he handle it.

he didnt have much to deal with when it came to draft picks due to the previous trades for Penner, Carter, etc. he was handcuffed by the injuries/cap situation with Greene and Willie. he knew he was also going to have to sign a lot of guys this summer whether they are RFAs or UFAs, so why gamble on the unknown?

he also clearly did not want to move the rights to what will likely be the future 2nd core - Toffoli, Vey, Muzzin, Voynov, forbort, etc. those kids will in time replace the existing core, Dean's first core he built the team on.

i strongly feel also that since he kept the team intact into this year (in large part), he was leaving it to them to repeat. remember when he fired TMu and the statement was made by him, Dustin and others about it coming down to the players to perform. the on ice performance is where it has to happen ultimately. he had to do something to help with the D situation because of Mitchell and Greene. he went out and got depth in Ellerby and Regehr. he backfilled spots that needed to be filled and went forward with the same guys and formula that won it last year.

dean plays chess. most of the naysayers, talking heads and internet GMs play checkers. dean is playing out his moves months and years in advance, while the rest of us are reacting to something that is just occurring.

SC 2012.....in DL we trust

Preach!!!


I agree again.

 

[etherialone]

Greene-Martinez aren't legit top-four guys, and I don't believe that second pairing matches up all that well with other contenders. They make a great bottom-pairing and an below-average to average second pairing.

I have to disagree with you and point to our cup first and then to how well Martinez is playing during this series.

(that is I disagree with the idea that they wouldn't be a solid second pairing on a contender. The rest of my hyperbole is just chestthumping)

Those two together are as solid a second pairing as we would need but the great thing with us is that they are our 3rd pairing when we are healthy. Voynov is our second pairing PMD and while we don't have an SAH for him signed for next year or at least have any certainty as to who he might end up paired with I am certain we will before the start of next season.

We will be fine again.

 

[kingsfan]

Greene-Martinez aren't legit top-four guys, and I don't believe that second pairing matches up all that well with other contenders. They make a great bottom-pairing and an below-average to average second pairing.

While I think Greene does better in a 3rd pairing setting, both are legit top 4 guys. This is where I think we've been spoiled by having such a great top four for so long.

As TG pointed out, A-Mart looked pretty darn solid all last playoffs and is doing the same agin here. He's going to be a solid player for a long time in this league. We are fine in regards to talent on the blueline. It's depth we need to address.

 

[Ollie Weeks]

I have to disagree with you and point to our cup first and then to how well Martinez is playing during this series.

(that is I disagree with the idea that they wouldn't be a solid second pairing on a contender. The rest of my hyperbole is just chestthumping)

Those two together are as solid a second pairing as we would need but the great thing with us is that they are our 3rd pairing when we are healthy. Voynov is our second pairing PMD and while we don't have an SAH for him signed for next year or at least have any certainty as to who he might end up paired with I am certain we will before the start of next season.

We will be fine again.

Sorry, I still dont know WHAT THIS MEANS AND ITS DRIVING ME BONKERS

 

[kingsfan]

Sorry, I still dont know WHAT THIS MEANS AND ITS DRIVING ME BONKERS

Stay At Home, as in who he will be paired with next year.

 

[Whiskeypete]

Greene-Martinez aren't legit top-four guys, and I don't believe that second pairing matches up all that well with other contenders. They make a great bottom-pairing and an below-average to average second pairing.

i wouldn't go so far as to say they are a below-average pairing. are they the ideal 2nd pairing? imo no. the only reason i hesitate them as a 2nd D unit is Greene's mobility, he isn't the most fleet of foot. Greene's first step(s) explosiveness isn't quick enough and he's tight in the hips, meaning he isn't that quick when he has to rotate-pivot and change directions.

as earlier pointed out Voynov is our #2 PMD without question. a bit faster than AMart, a bit quicker decisioning, has better puck pursuit angles and most importantly i think controls D zone board battles better. to me these are the reasons why VV passed AMart on the depth chart.

AMart works well in the #2 PMD role when needed, but when you've got the talent of Voynov on the same team it's difficult to push VV down the chart.

Greene when and if Mitchell is in the line up isn't as close of a comparison, to me its night and day difference. add in Scuds with these two and LA has a fantastic blend of SaH D men with slightly different skillsets and intangibles.

i like Matt in the #3 D line role against the another teams #3 and #4 lines where there is less chance of speed coming into play and he can match size with size.

so far the jury is still out for me when it comes to Regehr, the amount of games to evaluate are still to small. to date imo he is slower than Greene when evaluating skating. his decisioning in the D zone especially when it comes to outlets and clearing is a 50/50 result. to many soft chips that lead to turnovers and to many icings. this can possibly be attributed to lack of time with the team and lack of practices. i am also waiting for him to play and hit with more force. he is known for his physical play, but so far i am not seeing anything of note when it comes to this.

some of my observations anyways

 

[Ollie Weeks]

Stay At Home, as in who he will be paired with next year.

Thanks, I was fixating that the H somehow referred to handedness