Did including Toews into Top 100 Players instead of Malkin age well?

[sr edler]

You do realize that Malkin’s also won the Cup three times, right? And he has far more playoff points than Toews.

Toews is far better defensively than Malkin.

 

[Kegsey]

Yet hasn't won anything.

Hart and Art Ross the same year he got traded? It's literally a list about the top 100 individual players of all time, and a player in the top 10 for assists and top 15 for points isn't on it.

 

[COHawk]

Does anyone remember where this Toews hype came from anyway? During which one of the 50-60 point seasons did the world start believing that he is one of the best ever?

Maybe 2009-10 when he scored 68 points in 76 games while playing elite defense and then proceeded to score 29 points in 22 games and win the Conn Smythe. Maybe that one?

Maybe his 2012-13 season where he was 13th in scoring with 48 points in 47 games, 5th in goals, won the Selke, 4th in Hart voting, named to second allstar team, and won his second Cup? Maybe that one. Not sure.

 

[Kranix]

Does anyone remember where this Toews hype came from anyway? During which one of the 50-60 point seasons did the world start believing that he is one of the best ever?

TSN.
Canadian kid, complete 200 foot player. Most complete player. The type of people who say "how many cups though??" were very loud while Chicago was winning 3 cups.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

this "aging well" meme is f***ing stupid. And it doesn't even apply here because it was panned immediately when it was released, not in hindsight. You're just rehashing bullshit from 2 years ago.

 

[illpucks]

Did putting Toews instead of Ovechkin here age well?

 

[qqaz]

Most fans knew he shouldn't be included at the time. I seriously doubt anyone changed their mind between then and now. I'm a big Toews supporter, but it was clear right away that he was there for marketing purposes.

And the decision shouldn't change after time, anyway. So why bring it up again now? It was a list that was supposed to represent that exact moment in time. Even if Toews or Malkin flopped or excelled after the list came out, it's not like the list makers could have known that or could have changed the ranking.

 

[SavBigMoneyAtBedards]

I understand but it’s the same idea. Captaincy and cups don’t measure anything about a players skill and talent. Not to
Mention Toews being very much at the bottom of the barrel compared to the captains listed with him.

I think it’s pretty obvious that the difference between Toews and guys like Crosby, Yzerman, Potvin, Stevens, and most of the others would be HOFers and considered among the all time great players even if they never captained any team to 3 cups. Toews needs that to be even mentioned.

Then it's a good thing he did it.

I love the sour grapes.
But the truth is, any GM in the league would have wanted Toews from 2009-2015. He was that good at everything.

 

[illpucks]

Same reason the TSN top players list in NHL never listed Ovechkin as #1. Completely biased. How do you get Hart, Hart, Art Ross, Lindsay, Lindsay, Lindsay and in the 3rd year of that complete domination still get a #2 rank from TSN. Unreal.

 

[Midnight Judges]

I find that hard to believe.

I think Malkin should have been in there too, as did most of HF at the time and now.

It's another one of these controversies that isn't.

What do you think they would say? "I have no respect for Malkin and Ovechkin?" Seems unrealistic to me.

The biggest insults in hockey start with "I'm a huge XXX fan but..."

 

[nbwingsfan]

Maybe 2009-10 when he scored 68 points in 76 games while playing elite defense and then proceeded to score 29 points in 22 games and win the Conn Smythe. Maybe that one?

Maybe his 2012-13 season where he was 13th in scoring with 48 points in 47 games, 5th in goals, won the Selke, 4th in Hart voting, named to second allstar team, and won his second Cup? Maybe that one. Not sure.

68points now makes you one of the best in the league when guys were scoring 40 more points than him?

 

[NyQuil]

What do you think they would say? "I have no respect for Malkin and Ovechkin?" Seems unrealistic to me.

The biggest insults in hockey start with "I'm a huge XXX fan but..."

You assume that I hate one of the three players because I said I liked them all?

You are a paranoid person.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

We already have enough Toews bashing threads on these boards. It's just beating a dead horse at this point. Stop people.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Then it's a good thing he did it.

I love the sour grapes.
But the truth is, any GM in the league would have wanted Toews from 2009-2015. He was that good at everything.

Any GM would want Zetterberg in the same time frame yet I haven’t seen a single Wings fan consider him a top 100 player of all-time

 

[Midnight Judges]

You assume that I hate one of the three players because I said I liked them all?

You are a paranoid person.

That is not what I said at all.

I'm just pointing out that the nativists in the Canadian hockey media aren't going to cop to it.

I don't throw that term around lightly. The pattern is well-established.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

68points now makes you one of the best in the league when guys were scoring 40 more points than him?

Again there were very few players even putting up 90 points at that time. It was Sid, Ovi and the field.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

The History of Hockey forum did our Top 100 project about a year ago. We had 70 players in common with the NHL's Centennial list (and part of that was due to different eligibility criteria).

For the record, we had Malkin ranked 52nd. Toews never even came up for voting (he was 140th on the preliminary list). Other "modern" players that we included, but the NHL didn't, were Ed Belfour, Zdeno Chara, Joe Thornton, and Martin St. Louis.

For a detailed comparison about the differences between our lists - HOH Top 100 project - comparison to other lists

 

[I am not exposed]

For Toews, the captain and intangibles argument is pretty amusing to me. I mean, where have they been the last few years! Just evaporated!

 

[nbwingsfan]

Again there were very few players even putting up 90 points at that time. It was Sid, Ovi and the field.

Toews was 31st in PPG in 09/10... I repeat, THIRTY players scored at a better point per game pace.

That’s what made him , according to some, the best player in the league?

FYI: 31st in PPG last season was Aho. Do you see anyone calling him arguably the best player in the league?

 

[vanarchy]

Let's use Shanny as a comparison. 3 cups on a legendary Wings team. Shanny's peak season was 102 points. His next two closest were 94 and 87 point seasons.

Evgeni Malkin had 113, 109, 106, 85pt seasons and 2 cups at the time of this list. He then had two more 89pt, 87pt seasons and a 3rd cup.

And that's comparing him to a bonafide Hall of Famer.

 

[COHawk]

Toews was 31st in PPG in 09/10... I repeat, THIRTY players scored at a better point per game pace.

That’s what made him , according to some, the best player in the league?

FYI: 31st in PPG last season was Aho. Do you see anyone calling him arguably the best player in the league?

No he was not the best in the league but he showed up when it mattered. But god these threads are so old at this point.

 

[Zirakzigil]

Pens fans enjoy calling him the 101 best player. Geno uses it as motivation whenever someone brings it up. That list was a hilarious joke.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Did including Toews into Top 100 All-time NHL Players instead of Malkin age well?

Malkin won same amount of cups as him also has much more production and individual trophies.

Toews, Keith, Nieuwendyk, I could go on...lots of players that did not deserve to be ranked ahead of Malkin back then.

Now that Malkin led the playoffs in scoring, won his third Cup, and scored 1,000 points it’s even more of a joke than it already was.

 

[SotasicA]

Nothing has changed. Neither player is what they used to be. Toews was the better player last season, but it's almost irrelevant in the big picture when comparing careers.

 

[MikeK]

Nothing has changed. Neither player is what they used to be. Toews was the better player last season, but it's almost irrelevant in the big picture when comparing careers.

Malkin put up 72 pts last season in 68 games. Was Toews really the better player? I think you're wrong in lumping him into the same territory as Toews. Looking at Malkin's history it doesn't look like he's slowed down one bit whereas Toews has been hit or miss.