ottawa
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At some point Rangers fans are going to have to come to terms with Laf being what he is and not what he was projected to be.
Rumor: Dhaliwal: Canucks interested in Alexis Lafrenière
- Thread starter Nucker42
- Start date
At some point Rangers fans are going to have to come to terms with Laf being what he is and not what he was projected to be.
bold = thumbs up
underline = eff the prophecy
Drury does not have to diminish long term position jumping over a cliff, and NYR fans do not have to behave like lemmings and go there
hopefully Drury has learned from last year
bern was and is right
not all the time, but then and now
agreed
and I can live with upside of next Steve Vickers
smoneil
Registered User
Last year, according to these boards, Filip Chytil was worthless, Kakko (after the playoff scratch) was on his way out for a 2nd rounder, and now Laf is a bust.
Some food for thought--with almost NO power play time, these three guys are:
Chytil--on pace for ~50 points/82 games (nearly ALL even strength). Guys who put up even strength production in that neighborhood last year? Pasta, Tage Thompson, Seb Aho, Mika Zibanejad.
Kakko is on pace for ~37 points, but he has 9 in his last 15, so he's trending in the right direction.
Laf, before the scratch, had scored 8 points in his last 15, and was scratched as the scapegoat for a full roster that played like crap coming out of the Christmas break.
These kids are (respectively), 23 years old, 22 (soon) years old, and 21 years old. They are on a team where they are getting NO opportunities on special teams. That will slow development and (IMO) f*** with their confidence. By the standard of most high draft picks (who get top line minutes in all situations), they are slow in their development. For kids mostly buried, playing for a coach who doesn't see it as his job to "develop players"? They are doing fine.
Neither Laf, Chytil, nor Kakko are for sale. But can I interest you in a slightly used Gerard Gallant?
If the rest of the league's fans are tired of reading Ranger fans defenses of Laf, then they should stop proposing trades for him.
Some food for thought--with almost NO power play time, these three guys are:
Chytil--on pace for ~50 points/82 games (nearly ALL even strength). Guys who put up even strength production in that neighborhood last year? Pasta, Tage Thompson, Seb Aho, Mika Zibanejad.
Kakko is on pace for ~37 points, but he has 9 in his last 15, so he's trending in the right direction.
Laf, before the scratch, had scored 8 points in his last 15, and was scratched as the scapegoat for a full roster that played like crap coming out of the Christmas break.
These kids are (respectively), 23 years old, 22 (soon) years old, and 21 years old. They are on a team where they are getting NO opportunities on special teams. That will slow development and (IMO) f*** with their confidence. By the standard of most high draft picks (who get top line minutes in all situations), they are slow in their development. For kids mostly buried, playing for a coach who doesn't see it as his job to "develop players"? They are doing fine.
Neither Laf, Chytil, nor Kakko are for sale. But can I interest you in a slightly used Gerard Gallant?
At some point the rest of the league is going to have to come to terms with the fact that regardless of what Laf is or was projected to be, we don't have to want to trade him to your team for peanuts or pieces we either don't need or can't afford.
If the rest of the league's fans are tired of reading Ranger fans defenses of Laf, then they should stop proposing trades for him.
ottawa
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That's fine, but instead of saying guys like Horvat aren't an acceptable return for Laf then maybe explain what you're looking for and why, afterall, this is a discussion board to let's discuss.
Yes I watched the NYR alot last year in the playoffs and all of this talk about Laf breaking out and the whole line emerging this season then......
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won't be for a rental,
can't be for near-term Cap Hit, NYR have another challenging offseason re extensions
a young, upside guy to take Laf's minutes, like Podkolzin
plus significantly more - 2nd and Hoglander? maybe padded by some longer shots such as Dorrington/Kunz/Gardner/Lockhart
depending on package, NYR add back from pro or pipeline depth
this a Canadian born/developed, recent consensus #1, whose team is NOT shopping him,
the package would need to be very very tempting
GAGLine
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- Sep 17, 2007
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Horvat isn't an acceptable return because we can't afford to re-sign him, plus the fact that he's a center and we don't need a center.
We have said what we would accept, but other fans don't want to give it up, so there's nothing further to discuss. Other fans keep trying to argue about what his value is, but value has nothing to do with it. We aren't interested in moving Laf for anything close to what his value is, perceived or otherwise. If other teams want him, they are going to have to overpay to mitigate the Rangers' risk that he figures it out on another team. And given the Rangers' cap situation, that overpay would need to be in the form of cheap young players and picks.
Remember that we have no incentive or reason to trade him. Fans of other teams want us to assume all the risk in this scenario, but that's not how it works.
smoneil
Registered User
We're not looking for anything that would be available. Horvat's a great player, but the Rangers have three centers locked up and no cap room. Why would they trade the only 1st overall pick they've ever had to bolster a position where they are pretty damn strong already and where it is a total certainty that they couldn't keep Horvat beyond this year?
The team could use a RW for the top six. But again, our cap situation is screwed. The only top six RW we could afford would be one in a similar situation as Laf--young (under 21 or 22 years old), on an ELC. Teams don't want to give that up.
I get that it's a discussion board, but it goes in circles because other teams' fans have trouble with the concept that just because they WANT Lafreniere doesn't mean that he's for sale, and it definitely doesn't mean that he's for sale for anything they would want to part with.
Bear in mind that there are two other factors to all of this:
1- While I think Kreider wants to be a career Ranger, I don't know how much longer that will be on the top line (at ES anyway). He already flipped with Laf earlier this season for a stretch, and I see that being the eventual move going forward. Laf is buried right now, but the two guys burying him are on the other side of 30. He (and eventually Othmann) will have a chance at those spots, but it might be as Panarin and Kreider start to recede.
2- You have to understand the Rangers history with the draft. While they have never been the BEST franchise in terms of a Cup dynasty or anything, their history has also been defined by never being among the league worst, either. This is a team that has (outside of the O6 era, obviously) never finished in the bottom 5 of the league. They have had top 5 draft picks only three times in the last 55 years. Two of them were via lottery and are currently on the roster. The other was acquired via trade and ultimately busted (4th overall Pavel Brendl). Not only have they never had a 1st or 2nd overall before recently, but they can be reasonably certain that they aren't getting another one any time soon. This isn't a team like NJ or Pittsburgh or Edmonton who can bank on getting a couple of top 3 picks every decade. As such, they aren't going to be careless with them and sell low based on one scratch or a bit of a slow patch in development. It's the Rangers. They can always go out and sign a Bo Horvat (as good as he is). But this is likely their one shot at a 1st overall. The weight of that will always be in the background of the decision making at MSG.
Just so we're clear because I need to know I am understanding this
Your suggestion for value would be Podkolzin, Hoglander, a 2nd + more. For Laf and some kind of pro/pipeline depth; most likely pro to ensure the cap works after this year for extensions.
About right?
This would be the #1 reason as Drury I'd never move Laf without knowing the long term plan for Kreider. A succession plan HAS to be met before shedding what could be the most promising in organization asset to replace him
Most of us have. Doesn’t mean we want to give him up for penny’s on the dollar. I’d rather let him bust here.
WhalerTurnedBruin55
Fading out, thanks for the times.
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it wasn't a discrete proposal, i suck at those
i was responding "explain what you're looking for and why, after all, this is a discussion"
yes I think that is reasonable ball park starting point,
if going after Laf, its because Canucks expect he'll be the stud on Wing, everything and more than they have w Podz and/or Hogs, so the ~2nd
BUT NO the pro add-on's was NOT re Cap, i mean prospects or young pros
if that's too much, the interest is either insincere,
or hoping for a steal,
like here at HFB, where a fan-sphere pile-on loves declaring that he is a bust,
while NYR don't see it that way, they didn't draft him for what he'd do at 21,
and that's not why a new team would acquire him
adds on both sides as the FO's decide
verbatim concurLast year, according to these boards, Filip Chytil was worthless, Kakko (after the playoff scratch) was on his way out for a 2nd rounder, and now Laf is a bust.
Some food for thought--with almost NO power play time, these three guys are:
Chytil--on pace for ~50 points/82 games (nearly ALL even strength). Guys who put up even strength production in that neighborhood last year? Pasta, Tage Thompson, Seb Aho, Mika Zibanejad.
Kakko is on pace for ~37 points, but he has 9 in his last 15, so he's trending in the right direction.
Laf, before the scratch, had scored 8 points in his last 15, and was scratched as the scapegoat for a full roster that played like crap coming out of the Christmas break.
These kids are (respectively), 23 years old, 22 (soon) years old, and 21 years old. They are on a team where they are getting NO opportunities on special teams. That will slow development and (IMO) f*** with their confidence. By the standard of most high draft picks (who get top line minutes in all situations), they are slow in their development. For kids mostly buried, playing for a coach who doesn't see it as his job to "develop players"? They are doing fine.
Neither Laf, Chytil, nor Kakko are for sale. But can I interest you in a slightly used Gerard Gallant?
At some point the rest of the league is going to have to come to terms with the fact that regardless of what Laf is or was projected to be, we don't have to want to trade him to your team for peanuts or pieces we either don't need or can't afford.
If the rest of the league's fans are tired of reading Ranger fans defenses of Laf, then they should stop proposing trades for him.
Kreider is not the issue, and he is likely to retain peak physical condition.
bread is productive, but not worth 11+m, which is sucking cap oxygen.
Panarin won't admit it now, but before his deal is over, he will relent b'c it will be embarrassing to not get an offer at all, let alone one approaching what he makes now.
Howev, when he relents and goes there remains to be seen
bread goes
Kreid stays
If that's what you're looking for I think that's fair.
But it's also more than what the canucks would ever be willing to spend for that. In their first full seasons together (not covid weird season) Podkolzin and Lafrenier were/are very similar players. But Podkolzin is/was playing on a terrible Vancouver team with a coach unwilling or unable to utilize youth players properly.
For myself, I think Vancouver would have no interest in that with Podkolzin for the same reason you stated and others have that the Rangers would have no interest in trading Lafreniere
That's an opinion. which is fine.
But my statement was that Lafreniere being there to replace one of the two is the best and most sensible reason for keeping him.
RangerBoy
Dolan sucks!!!
pld459666
Registered User
personally, I don't trade either of the first rounders for a rental at all.
Rather look to move one at the draft for a cost controlled player much in the same way tjat Tampa got Hagel.
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understood
in my mind, a team only trades for Laf (a) with expectation his exceptionalism will emerge at NHL level, and (b) pays accordingly
as NYR fan, I am in NO rush to move him
we look no further than Kakko, during last 6 weeks,
to see that patience can be rewarded,
and just because some very young, very good players contribute big right away at NHL level, doesn't mean that all will
posters here don't like the argument that Laf/Kakko's ##s are depressed by lack of PP time,
due to NYR's star-deep #1 unit (Zib, Bread, Kreider, Fox)
but it is a genuine factor impacting the kids' counting stats
others with similar pedigrees typically get more PP time sooner
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BB88
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They don’t have a strong F u25 group and their record on developing players is abysmal
66-30-33
Registered User
Sure wish Pens got this guy at the draft but once the NYR ball fell on the floor you knew his fate was sealed.
Fogelhund
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Which is an ironic statement, given other teams fans want to trade for him, under the pretense that there is more there, that their team can get out of him, that the Rangers have failed to.
ottawa
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Rangers haven't really been a development team as of late, so I imagine other fans are trying to acquire him to try and salvage his career.
oceanchild
Registered User
Horvat will get the equivalent of two first rounders, looking at recent trade deadlines, so will Schenn and you have Vancouvers most recent first rounder along with some spare parts for a third that won’t be far off the 4th a likely bust that is worth maybe a second and then three first rounders for that young D is far far to much (not to mention Horvat will get more than the equivalent of 2 first rounders)
Save this post and let’s discuss at the trade deadline. Horvat is on pace for 50 goals, if a top faceoff guy, a character guy and a captain. Someone will pay.
Daves a mess
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- Jan 8, 2014
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Heard on NHL Radio this am that " A LOT" of teams are calling Chris Drury asking about Lafs availability.
They also theorized that it would "take Laf" to get a player like Patrick Kane. I'm assuming at 50%?Personally not interested in that rumor that won't go away.
Take from that what you will.
They also theorized that it would "take Laf" to get a player like Patrick Kane. I'm assuming at 50%?Personally not interested in that rumor that won't go away.
Take from that what you will.
Raistlin
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- Aug 25, 2006
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when a guy like Dhaliwal tweets canuck interest in a player, 90% of the time, its the player's agent giving him the go ahead to make this a talking point. If the agent is taking this step, the player is no longer worried about his standing in his current organisation, as everyone in the hockey world knows, the agent ultimately needs the player's blessing. Drury may not be interested in moving Laf, but Laf is.
