Prospect Info: Devils Win #2 Overall -- Slafkovsky vs. Jiricek vs. Nemec

[beekay414]

Yeah but he's smol just like Jack and Bratt. The HORROR

I see you're taking this well...

 

[Lou is God]

Yeah but he's smol just like Jack and Bratt. The HORROR

Who said that? Drafting Cooley would not be remotely horrible, can we stop with the hyperbole.

 

[Nocashstyle]

Sure and lots of other players including good ones like Raymond just a couple of years ago were.

And it’s not that it isn’t a concern. It’s just that there’s a lot of necessary context there and much more important things than production.

Sure, but at #2, relying on possible reasons for his lackluster production is not something I would be thrilled about. Even after he “broke out” at and after the Olympics, he still produced at a lower rate than other highly touted Liga players like Kakko, Lundell, obviously Barkov, Kotkaniemi. And did I read that his Olympic shooting percentage was 29%?

Slaf is hardly the consensus #2 prospect in the draft, and there are way too many question marks, so the risk doesn’t seem worth it to me.

 

[Tretyak 20]

Except he very easily could be BPA. I don't think he is. I have Jiricek. I think Cooley's right after that though and could be swayed that way. The way people act like having another great player is "redundant" is f***ing hilarious.

No, when no sources can agree on ranking him higher than the others in that pack, then by definition he is NOT BPA. This isn't rocket science. And, yes, he IS redundant when he projects to fill the same role in the same way as Hischier and Hughes, both of whom are young and signed long-term. Then add to that Mercer has also played some top-6 C and Cooley most certainly is redundant.

 

[Triumph]

Sure, but at #2, relying on possible reasons for his lackluster production is not something I would be thrilled about. Even after he “broke out” at and after the Olympics, he still produced at a lower rate than other highly touted Liga players like Kakko, Lundell, obviously Barkov, Kotkaniemi. And did I read that his Olympic shooting percentage was 29%?

Slaf is hardly the consensus #2 prospect in the draft, and there are way too many question marks, so the risk doesn’t seem worth it to me.

He scored 7 goals in 7 games. 29% shooting on that still means he got 24 shots on goal in 7 games which is pretty damn good for an 18 year old, even if the Olympics was just a tournament of minor leaguers this year, that's quite impressive.

 

[Nocashstyle]

I'm not on Team Slaf, you just quoted my post where I said I'm open to other players.

Addressing the section of your post stating you think others are dismissing praise for Slaf because they want someone else. Not sure how you saying you’re open to other players is relevant.

 

[Eggtimer]

Slafkovsky is my pick unless …. We sign Nuke and trade for Jesse Puljujarvi . Then I’d go Jiricek then . But .. If Nuke doesn’t make it to UFA then it all goes to shit.

We dint have to make the pick right now and we will see how the WC go down . Maybe one kid will shine amd will make the choice a little easier.

 

[Devs3cups]

All that being said, I'm going to do my damnedest to support whoever we take because it's in the best interest of this team that they click. I told myself I wasn't getting involved in this process because I didn't wanna fall for someone that ended up on the Flyers lol. Let's just enjoy the fact that we're about to get another blue chip prospect.

That's 100% how we should be looking at it. With average goaltending, we're probably drafting 10th~ish. The team is better than the record shows and having a top 2 pick is GRAVY this year.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Sure, but at #2, relying on possible reasons for his lackluster production is not something I would be thrilled about. Even after he “broke out” at and after the Olympics, he still produced at a lower rate than other highly touted Liga players like Kakko, Lundell, obviously Barkov, Kotkaniemi. And did I read that his Olympic shooting percentage was 29%?

Slaf is hardly the consensus #2 prospect in the draft, and there are way too many question marks, so the risk doesn’t seem worth it to me.

I’m not relying on possible reasons. I’m relying on watching him and his skillset. It’s all about how well these prospects project at the NHL level. Watching him, I think he well be a very good NHL player. I don’t care if he hasn’t been great in LIIGA as a 17-18 year old against men. Not looking for the best LIIGA or NTDP player at 18. Looking for the best NHL player at 23-29. If he turns into a really good NHL player like I think he will I won’t care in the slightest what his LIIGA production was. His production doesn’t matter. It’s just a small fraction of the evaluation process.

There aren’t way too many question marks. It’s just his production. And there’s a lot of context necessary when evaluating his production. And then there’s a lot more to evaluate other than his production.

 

[Lou Bloom]

What are you even talking about here? This isn't some mind bending stuff, my guy. Teams have their boards and if you don't think that team construct is a major part of it, then you're incredibly misguided.


It absolutely is true. You're never going to become a superstar or the best player in your draft not getting PP time. Cooley isn't going to take PP reps away from Bratt and Hughes and he's not likely going to offer anything that says "play him with them" either. This idea that Cooley is somehow someone we should throw team construct away for is asinine. He's not that type of player. He's a good kid and solid hockey player but he's never going to be a superstar player. That's just not what his game is.

Yeah, that goes into the draft process and how team's make their boards. My point isn't that teams don't factor in needs or team construction it's that their views on who the best players in the class are and how they should ranked/tiered/separated isn't as simple as reading a TSN draft list and selecting the player that sounds like a good fit. If the Devils come out of the draft process blown away with Cooley's game and are lukewarm on a player like Slafkovsky that doesn't mean they should just draft Slafkovsky because some online scouts might disagree.

Yeah, but if Cooley ends up showcasing that he has world class talent then he isn't going to be held down the lineup. Anton Lundell who I just showed as an example put up a 55 point pace as a rookie while averaging a little over 13 minutes in 5v5 + PP time. If you don't think Lundell is going to be moving up the lineup quickly in the upcoming seasons and getting way more time than that considering his talent then I don't know what to tell you.

I'm not saying Cooley is definitely a superstar or should definitely be the pick. I just think taking him outside of the consideration for the pick all together because he somewhat profiles like Jack is not a good argument.

 

[Lou is God]

Addressing the section of your post stating you think others are dismissing praise for Slaf because they want someone else. Not sure how you saying you’re open to other players is relevant.

You're the one who threw "Team Slaf" at me, what am I missing here? Clearly you're implying I'm "Team Slaf".

 

[Nocashstyle]

I’m not relying on possible reasons. I’m relying on watching him and his skillset. It’s all about how well these prospects project at the NHL level. Watching him, I think he well be a very good NHL player. I don’t care if he hasn’t been great in LIIGA as a 17-18 year old against men. Not looking for the best LIIGA or NTDP player at 18. Looking for the best NHL player at 23-29.

There aren’t way too many question marks. It’s just his production. And there’s a lot of context necessary when evaluating his production. And then there’s a lot more to evaluate other than his production.

I get it. Drafting is always about projection, but most picks, especially #2 have a much better track record of production.

You're the one who threw "Team Slaf" at me, what am I missing here? Clearly you're implying I'm "Team Slaf".

And clearly whether you’re on Team Slaf or not is completely irrelevant to the content on my post.

 

[beekay414]

I'm not saying Cooley is definitely a superstar or should definitely be the pick. I just think taking him outside of the consideration for the pick all together because he somewhat profiles like Jack is not a good argument.

Cooley doesn't profile like Jack Hughes in any way, though. He profiles more like a smaller Nico Hischier (if we're comparing to our guys). He's a smaller 2 way C, not an offensive dynamo. My issue is that he doesn't offer anything we lack in that regard. He's a fine hockey player and I'd be thrilled to have him but I think you guys are on him for the wrong reasons.

If you want an offensive dynamo, Matthew Savoie should be your guy, not Logan Cooley.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

I get it. Drafting is always about projection, but most picks, especially #2 have a much better track record of production.

Yeah but I’m not too worried about that. As it’s been said he hasn’t gotten close to as much opportunity as a lot of other top prospects and also missed some time with an injury. There’s also top prospects who had very good skillsets but were questioned because of their production who turned out great. Lucas Raymond recently for example. At least so far, but I doubt he falls off.

 

[beekay414]

I get it. Drafting is always about projection, but most picks, especially #2 have a much better track record of production.

If Lucas Raymond was in this draft, with his 10 points in 33 SHL games, would you take him #2?

 

[Lou Bloom]

No, when no sources can agree on ranking him higher than the others in that pack, then by definition he is NOT BPA. This isn't rocket science. And, yes, he IS redundant when he projects to fill the same role in the same way as Hischier and Hughes, both of whom are young and signed long-term. Then add to that Mercer has also played some top-6 C and Cooley most certainly is redundant.

Teams don't have scouting and analytic departments to just read EP and TSN lists. Each team will come up with their own draft list and each team's list will look vastly different than the next. If the Devils come out of this process and think Cooley is the best pick then so be it. If he goes to Wisconsin next year and kills it are fans really going to be upset on having a player like that in the system?

 

[Nocashstyle]

If Lucas Raymond was in this draft, with his 10 points in 33 SHL games, would you take him #2?

That doesn’t make Raymond the norm. For every toolsy player that pans out, there’s a Barrett Hayton, Zacha, or Podkolzin…they might have somewhat productive careers, but not the type of players you’re aiming for in the top 10

 

[Lou Bloom]

Cooley doesn't profile like Jack Hughes in any way, though. He profiles more like a smaller Nico Hischier. He's a smaller 2 way C, not an offensive dynamo. My issue is that he doesn't offer anything we lack in that regard. He's a fine hockey player and I'd be thrilled to have him but I think you guys are on him for the wrong reasons.

If you want an offensive dynamo, Matthew Savoie should be your guy, not Logan Cooley.

I'd disagree there, I think Cooley's skating, hands and vision are all high end attributes. There's not many players that showcase the feel for the game that he does. He also showcased all these attributes while being on the younger side of the draft class. If there was one player I had to put my money on being a top line play driver at the next level in this class I'd bet on Cooley.

 

[beekay414]

That doesn’t make Raymond the norm. For every toolsy player that pans out, there’s a Barrett Hayton, Zacha, or Podkolzin…they might have somewhat productive careers, but not the type of players you’re aiming for in the top 10

You didn't answer my question.

 

[Hisch13r]

That doesn’t make Raymond the norm. For every toolsy player that pans out, there’s a Barrett Hayton, Zacha, or Podkolzin…they might have somewhat productive careers, but not the type of players you’re aiming for in the top 10

Also Raymond's a bad comparable because he did have great U20 production in his D-1. Slaf's D-1 production was still a step down compared to other high profile players in the Finnish U20.

 

[beekay414]

I'd disagree there, I think Cooley's skating, hands and vision are all high end attributes. There's not many players that showcase the feel for the game that he does. He also showcased all these attributes while being on the younger side of the draft class. If there was one player I had to put my money on being a top line play driver at the next level in this class I'd bet on Cooley.

Agree to disagree.

Matthew Savoie is this class's top play driver. There's a reason why he's so deadly on the PP.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

That doesn’t make Raymond the norm. For every toolsy player that pans out, there’s a Barrett Hayton, Zacha, or Podkolzin…they might have somewhat productive careers, but not the type of players you’re aiming for in the top 10

Sorry but firstly actually watching and evaluating a players skillset is much more important than their production.

Second, those other two could definitely still turn out. Podkolzin was taken in 2019 and had played one NHL season and looks really good. I’d bet he breaks out at some point pretty soon.
Hayton has still only played 94 games and could turn out pretty well.

Also Raymond's a bad comparable because he did have great U20 production in his D-1. Slaf's D-1 production was still a step down compared to other high profile players in the Finnish U20.

As I already said to the last time you said this. You conveniently must have missed that. Raymond and Slafkovsky’s Bader cards which are based solely on production and numbers are very similar.

 

[beekay414]

Also Raymond's a bad comparable because he did have great U20 production in his D-1. Slaf's D-1 production was still a step down compared to other high profile players in the Finnish U20.

Slafkovsky was hurt his D-1 year

 

[Lou Bloom]

Agree to disagree.

Matthew Savoie is this class's top play driver. There's a reason why he's so deadly on the PP.

I'm a big Savoie fan so there's not too much disagreement, I like Cooley more but Savoie is right up there and he would have been one of my top options if they stayed at 5 or fell down in the draft.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Slafkovsky was hurt his D-1 year

He keeps bringing this bad argument up for some reason.
Their Bader cards which are based solely on numbers and production are very similar.