Prospect Info: Devils Win #2 Overall -- Slafkovsky vs. Jiricek vs. Nemec

[beekay414]

We’re gonna sit here and spend a ton of time arguing about Slafkovsky, Cooley, Jiricek, and Nemec just for Fitz to take Kemell.

It's gonna be a wild ride here. I'll be around sparingly since I just can't take this place half the time lol.

 

[Nocashstyle]

I don’t want to draft Slafkovsky, but I also don’t necessarily want to pass on him either.

It also doesn’t make me all warm and fuzzy inside thinking about how Jiricek recently had knee surgery.

Nemec is definitely still my guy. I’ve always warmed up to the idea of Cooley…too many Cs be damned.

 

[Hockey Sports Fan]

Zacha was never projected to be a power forward the way Slaf is, why are we comparing these two?

Zacha WAS projected as a slick skater and puck carrier with size, with a good shot, high compete level, and a bit of a mean streak. Only one of those attributes manifested as NHL-level skill, which i think is an important lesson when it comes to believing the consensus opinions on 16 and 17 year olds.

 

[beekay414]

So yeah, team construction. Definitely a thing in my book.

Absolutely must be. I think the only real way you can look past it is if you land at the #1 overall pick in a clear cut draft. Which, as a result, that #1 pick BECOMES the team's construct lol.

 

[devilsblood]

I'd say the fact that one was in the OHL and one in Liiga makes the stats comparison pretty much a moot point when comparing Zacha and Slaf.

Points relative to the league though. And team for that matter.

Zacha was at or near a ppg. Slaf is at .33.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Zacha WAS projected as a slick skater and puck carrier with size, with a good shot, high compete level, and a bit of a mean streak. Only one of those attributes manifested as NHL-level skill, which i think is an important lesson when it comes to believing the consensus opinions on 16 and 17 year olds.

Not sure about the compete. Saw quite a few of his games in person. And the mean streak just came from him getting suspended for a couple of bad hits. He actually is a pretty good puck carrier when he’s on and has a good shot.

 

[Devs3cups]

Points relative to the league though. And team for that matter.

Zacha was at or near a ppg. Slaf is at .33.

Zacha 0.91 in his draft year. When used in the top-6 role (asking him to produce in a bottom-6 role that doesn't suit him isn't ideal at all) to end the season, Slaf had 6 points in 10 games.

 

[devilsblood]

That floor ball photo did not help his draft stock with me.

Just screams all size no snarl. He might be big but does he use it?

You're probably serious but it's still funny.

 

[Lou is God]

Zacha WAS projected as a slick skater and puck carrier with size, with a good shot, high compete level, and a bit of a mean streak. Only one of those attributes manifested as NHL-level skill, which i think is an important lesson when it comes to believing the consensus opinions on 16 and 17 year olds.

Zacha was not projected as a forward the way Slaf is, there is no comparison. Nor does it matter if there was, And I'm still open to other players, but some are trying too hard to dismiss the high praise for Slaf because they want someone else, that's what it seems like.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Points relative to the league though. And team for that matter.

Zacha was at or near a ppg. Slaf is at .33.

It’s more so the fact that any top prospect in the OHL is going to be playing a ton and on the top powerplay. In SHL or LIIGA a top prospect may be playing bottom 6 without pp or they may be playing top 6 and first pp. That makes a big difference and makes it harder to judge.

Zacha 0.91 in his draft year. When used in the top-6 role (asking him to produce in a bottom-6 role that doesn't suit him isn't ideal at all) to end the season, Slaf had 10 points in 6 games.

6 in 10*

 

[Devs3cups]

6 in 10*

Knew that, brain fart. Thanks, edited it in the OG post.

 

[devilsblood]

Huh. That’s just not true. Zacha was a big, fast, skilled center.

Slafkovsky is a big skilled power forward winger who is great along the walls. Slafkovsky is really good on the forecheck too.

Everything about Slafkovsky is power forward.


I’m not sold on Jiricek. Would much rather Nemec

STI isn't screaming PF with Slaf. But heck, if he is then I like him more.

As per Zacha, PF was def part of the mix predraft. Not sure how accurate it was in the OHL, but it has clearly not panned out in the NHL. (As noted somewhere earlier, perhaps the concussions derailed that part of his game.)

I mean, is Zacha Slaf? No they are different players. No two players are never 100% the same, but there are similarities, and there are differences.

 

[Tretyak 20]

I don't see how that changes the point. You don't avoid Cooley because he's small and we have 2 small forwards. That's just stupid.

No, you avoid him because he isn't BPA and he is redundant on your depth chart.

 

[devilsblood]

It’s more so the fact that any top prospect in the OHL is going to be playing a ton and on the top powerplay. In SHL or LIIGA a top prospect may be playing bottom 6 without pp or they may be playing top 6 and first pp. That makes a big difference and makes it harder to judge.


6 in 10*

I agree. Need to look deeper. But it's still a similar predraft consideration.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

STI isn't screaming PF with Slaf. But heck, if he is then I like him more.

As per Zacha, PF was def part of the mix predraft. Not sure how accurate it was in the OHL, but it has clearly not panned out in the NHL. (As noted somewhere earlier, perhaps the concussions derailed that part of his game.)

I mean, is Zacha Slaf? No they are different players. No two players are never 100% the same, but there are similarities, and there are differences.

STI is definitely screaming power forward. Go read his reports on him. @StevenToddIves

There’s a lot more differences than similarities. There aren’t many similarities.

 

[Goptor]

We’re gonna sit here and spend a ton of time arguing about Slafkovsky, Cooley, Jiricek, and Nemec just for Fitz to take Kemell.


I’m not sure who I’m most excited to watch.
I’m really excited to see Nico and Jones with Switzerland too.

Mtl is gonna pass on Wright, Fitz will grab him, and then almost everyone on this board will go "Well I would have taken Wright the entire time if I knew he'd be available".

The only detractors will be people wondering what happens with Nico if Wright is going to be our 3rd line center next year.

 

[Lou Bloom]

You could literally say this about anybody they pick. The simple fact is, Cooley offers us nothing we don't already have. How does he become a superstar and clear cut best player when he likely doesn't get a PP role that fits his strengths since we have two different options that are clearly better? That's the point. Unless we hit a dead end in contract talks with Jesper Bratt and there's no way he's coming back, there's no place for Cooley to become that "if" that you just described. There is a such thing as too much of the same thing.

This draft's forward crop is separated by a razor's edge from Slafkovsky to Nazar to Cooley to Savoie. When all things are equal, you absolutely take into account the needs of the team and the system. This idea that you just throw out need as if it plays no part in the evaluation process is just pure fiction and naive.

That just isn't true. Anton Lundell just put up 44 points in 65 games averaging only slightly less than 13 mins of 5v5 TOI and only 40 seconds on the PP as a 20 year old rookie. If Cooley becomes the best player in this draft class then he'll have no problem getting PP time or 5v5 time, Jordan Staal was averaging the 3rd most minutes on the Penguins only behind Crosby and Malkin during their time together for example.

This if all things are equal narrative is not how the draft actually works out. Teams don't just read EP's or TSN's thoughts on a class and just choose the guy that sounds like he'd fit. Each team will have their own conclusions on this draft class and decide on the pick based on that.

 

[Hisch13r]

No, you avoid him because he isn't BPA and he is redundant on your depth chart.

Except he very easily could be BPA. I don't think he is. I have Jiricek. I think Cooley's right after that though and could be swayed that way. The way people act like having another great player is "redundant" is f***ing hilarious.

 

[Nocashstyle]

Zacha was not projected as a forward the way Slaf is, there is no comparison. Nor does it matter if there was, And I'm still open to other players, but some are trying too hard to dismiss the high praise for Slaf because they want someone else, that's what it seems like.

And those on team Slaf seem to be scoffing at the idea that there are legitimate concerns regarding his production. At the end of the day, whatever excuses/context we want to throw out there, his production is what it is: pedestrian.

Slaf will be drafted for his tools, just as Zacha was.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

And those on team Slaf seem to be scoffing at the idea that there are legitimate concerns regarding his production. At the end of the day, whatever excuses/context we want to throw out there, his production is what it is: pedestrian.

Slaf will be drafted for his tools, just as Zacha was.

Sure and lots of other players including good ones like Raymond just a couple of years ago were.

And it’s not that it isn’t a concern. It’s just that there’s a lot of necessary context there and much more important things than production.

It’s not that I don’t think it’s fair to be a little concerned by a lack of production as long as some of the necessary context is taken into consideration. It’s when people suggest he shouldn’t be a legitimate option just because of his production or when people haven’t actually watched him and say someone else is a better prospect just because of production.

 

[Lou is God]

And those on team Slaf seem to be scoffing at the idea that there are legitimate concerns regarding his production. At the end of the day, whatever excuses/context we want to throw out there, his production is what it is: pedestrian.

Slaf will be drafted for his tools, just as Zacha was.

I'm not on Team Slaf, you just quoted my post where I said I'm open to other players.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Except he very easily could be BPA. I don't think he is. I have Jiricek. I think Cooley's right after that though and could be swayed that way. The way people act like having another great player is "redundant" is f***ing hilarious.

It would be just horrible to have another center that can drive a line and take over a game.

 

[beekay414]

This if all things are equal narrative is not how the draft actually works out. Teams don't just read EP's or TSN's thoughts on a class and just choose the guy that sounds like he'd fit. Each team will have their own conclusions on this draft class and decide on the pick based on that.

What are you even talking about here? This isn't some mind bending stuff, my guy. Teams have their boards and if you don't think that team construct is a major part of it, then you're incredibly misguided.

That just isn't true. Anton Lundell just put up 44 points in 65 games averaging only slightly less than 13 mins of 5v5 TOI and only 40 seconds on the PP as a 20 year old rookie. If Cooley becomes the best player in this draft class then he'll have no problem getting PP time or 5v5 time, Jordan Staal was averaging the 3rd most minutes on the Penguins only behind Crosby and Malkin during their time together for example.

It absolutely is true. You're never going to become a superstar or the best player in your draft not getting PP time. Cooley isn't going to take PP reps away from Bratt and Hughes and he's not likely going to offer anything that says "play him with them" either. This idea that Cooley is somehow someone we should throw team construct away for is asinine. He's not that type of player. He's a good kid and solid hockey player but he's never going to be a superstar player. That's just not what his game is.

 

[Hisch13r]

It would be just horrible to have another center that can drive a line and take over a game.

Yeah but he's smol just like Jack and Bratt. The HORROR

 

[Billdo]

And those on team Slaf seem to be scoffing at the idea that there are legitimate concerns regarding his production. At the end of the day, whatever excuses/context we want to throw out there, his production is what it is: pedestrian.

Slaf will be drafted for his tools, just as Zacha was.

You'd like to see more production for sure, I get the concern. I know it's just Monday morning QBing but it's kinda of wild to me to be taking a guy who doesn't have stats that jump out at you. I'm not opposed to drafting him bc I'm sure the organization and scouts no more than I do, but I do have some reservations about it. Sucks hitting the lottery in what's perceived to be an average draft.