Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - season begins!

[MasterofGrond]

the only problem with them wearing the jersey jersey is that they wont sell me a goddamn hat hat

STOP TAUNTING ME

 

[Satans Hockey]

Just doing my part...

 

[SansaStark]

You don’t even believe your own bullshit. There are 360 minutes in a game and Jack plays maybe 20 of them but sure he is all that matters. Nothing else matters. No other player whatsoever. For someone who ousted about how long you’ve watched games your posts come across as someone with little perspective or experience.

This isn’t about playing in a single game. This is about organizational structure with the cap and roster construction.

Jack is slated, via his cap hit and via the roster construction as a top 6 center and the teams top point getter.
If he doesn’t fill that role, the roster construction becomes a nightmare.
His cap hit, albeit team friendly, still hamstrings you as to what you can do with the roster. We can’t afford for him to not be someone who’s puts up big point #s and is an essential member of the team’s success.
That’s not even to mention the organization’s serious lack of center depth.

If he doesn’t fill that role, you won’t contend. I don’t understand how that is so unfathomable for you?

and yes, if you’ve watched hockey and the franchise building the successful teams have done, you’d fully realize that everyone has to fulfill the role they’re being paid to fulfill. And they have to do it well. The more flexibility and diversity a player can bring to you lineup beyond their slated role, the more successful your team will be. As of today, Jack is underperforming his slated role since he returned from injury last year.

 

[MasterofGrond]

man i think even Jim would be tired of this schtick by now

 

[My3Sons]

This isn’t about playing in a single game. This is about organizational structure with the cap and roster construction.

Jack is slated, via his cap hit and via the roster construction as a top 6 center and the teams top point getter.
If he doesn’t fill that role, the roster construction becomes a nightmare.
His cap hit, albeit team friendly, still hamstrings you as to what you can do with the roster. We can’t afford for him to not be someone who’s puts up big point #s and is an essential member of the team’s success.
That’s not even to mention the organization’s serious lack of center depth.

If he doesn’t fill that role, you won’t contend. I don’t understand how that is so unfathomable for you?

and yes, if you’ve watched hockey and the franchise building the successful teams have done, you’d fully realize that everyone has to fulfill the role they’re being paid to fulfill. And they have to do it well. The more flexibility and diversity a player can bring to you lineup beyond their slated role, the more successful your team will be. As of today, Jack is underperforming his slated role since he returned from injury last year.

And sometimes when they are returning from serious injury they are not fully up to their capabilities and yet still better than the alternative. It's a long season. 18 other skaters play in every game. Jack needs to be better but show a little perspective.

 

[SansaStark]

And sometimes when they are returning from serious injury they are not fully up to their capabilities and yet still better than the alternative. It's a long season. 18 other skaters play in every game. Jack needs to be better but show a little perspective.

Perspective is great. Here’s a perspective:
Jack has shown disturbing trends in his play that far exceed this injury or what this injury should have affected. His attitude in public is immature, his attitude on the ice is immature. All of these things added together paint a very bad picture. This is the trend line right now. I hope he turns it around.

How much time has to pass before someone is not recovering from an injury? How long does the injury excuse last for him?

How does injury affect his ability to make a good decision with the puck? Just confidence? Lack of confidence in his shoulder (?) causing him to make bad decisions? His shoulder lets him make a tape to tape pass one second but then the next shift it doesn’t?

Forget the debate since you’re all going to defend this player regardless of what the trend line, evidence or any metric says.

 

[Triumph]

Perspective is great. Here’s a perspective:
Jack has shown disturbing trends in his play that far exceed this injury or what this injury should have affected. His attitude in public is immature, his attitude on the ice is immature. All of these things added together paint a very bad picture. This is the trend line right now. I hope he turns it around.

How much time has to pass before someone is not recovering from an injury? How long does the injury excuse last for him?

How does injury affect his ability to make a good decision with the puck? Just confidence? Lack of confidence in his shoulder (?) causing him to make bad decisions? His shoulder lets him make a tape to tape pass one second but then the next shift it doesn’t?

Forget the debate since you’re all going to defend this player regardless of what the trend line, evidence or any metric says.

Patrice Bergeron missed almost the entire 2007-08 season with a concussion. When he returned the next year, he had by far his worst season as a professional. He'll have a trip to Toronto in the near future.

You won't forget the debate. You will remember it and you will keep it with you for the next 10 years and if Jack doesn't end up winning a championship you will say I told you so, that I knew it back in 2024, and you didn't know it now.

 

[My3Sons]

Perspective is great. Here’s a perspective:
Jack has shown disturbing trends in his play that far exceed this injury or what this injury should have affected. His attitude in public is immature, his attitude on the ice is immature. All of these things added together paint a very bad picture. This is the trend line right now. I hope he turns it around.

How much time has to pass before someone is not recovering from an injury? How long does the injury excuse last for him?

How does injury affect his ability to make a good decision with the puck? Just confidence? Lack of confidence in his shoulder (?) causing him to make bad decisions? His shoulder lets him make a tape to tape pass one second but then the next shift it doesn’t?

Forget the debate since you’re all going to defend this player regardless of what the trend line, evidence or any metric says.

As far as I can tell the entire trend line involves him being hurt. Saying there is an arbitrary timeline to an injury isn’t realistic. It takes however long it takes. I’ll defer the attitude stuff to others who follow him more closely in that regard. Again he needs to improve but in my view he’s still working through the return to play process and I expect he will improve if he can avoid being hurt again. Pounding the table that he needs to be 100% now when you don’t know how his shoulder feels is just wishful thinking.

 

[SansaStark]

Patrice Bergeron missed almost the entire 2007-08 season with a concussion. When he returned the next year, he had by far his worst season as a professional. He'll have a trip to Toronto in the near future.

You won't forget the debate. You will remember it and you will keep it with you for the next 10 years and if Jack doesn't end up winning a championship you will say I told you so, that I knew it back in 2024, and you didn't know it now.

I’d guess Patrice wasn’t giving the puck away and being so careless with kind of regularity Jack is now. But fine, I concede I don’t know the exact details of how bad he was after his concussion. You say Jack needs a whole other season and a full healthy off season. I agree. But why not sit him now, let him work out and build up his body and come back actually ready to play high quality professional hockey? He could risk another injury now, and set him back again, and then he may not get that healthy offseason and time to get his body right.

I don’t need to remember the debate and die on the hill. you think I want this? You think I want Jack to suck just for the debate?
No freakin way dude. I want Jack to be the best player in the world. I want him to be the best player this franchise has ever had. I want to come chest out to all the other metro team fans in my life and tell them Panarin, Michkov, etc…etc… all are beneath Jack. But I can’t. Because it’s completely ridiculous.

Literally Casey is a better all around player than Jack is, right now. He certainly makes better decisions with the puck, and plays a more physical game.

 

[My3Sons]

I’d guess Patrice wasn’t giving the puck away and being so careless with kind of regularity Jack is now. But fine, I concede I don’t know the exact details of how bad he was after his concussion. You say Jack needs a whole other season and a full healthy off season. I agree. But why not sit him now, let him work out and build up his body and come back actually ready to play high quality professional hockey? He could risk another injury now, and set him back again, and then he may not get that healthy offseason and time to get his body right.

I don’t need to remember the debate and die on the hill. you think I want this? You think I want Jack to suck just for the debate?
No freakin way dude. I want Jack to be the best player in the world. I want him to be the best player this franchise has ever had. I want to come chest out to all the other metro team fans in my life and tell them Panarin, Michkov, etc…etc… all are beneath Jack. But I can’t. Because it’s completely ridiculous.

Literally Casey is a better all around player than Jack is, right now. He certainly makes better decisions with the puck, and plays a more physical game.

I agree the risk of additional injury has to be considered but if that isn’t a real issue then Jack at 80% is still better than whoever would replace him at 110%. They don’t have a center in waiting unfortunately. Probably the biggest organizational weakness right now.

 

[dgibb10]

Meanwhile the devils are winning the minutes with Jack on the ice.

The 3rd pairing and the 4th line have struggled this year big time. And while Jack's line isn't dominating quite yet, it's still winning it's minutes.

The 3rd pairing has an in house replacement coming in the form of Luke Hughes and Brett Pesce.

The 4th line does not have any reinforcements coming internally. Which is why NJD needs to go get a 4C

 

[SansaStark]

As far as I can tell the entire trend line involves him being hurt. Saying there is an arbitrary timeline to an injury isn’t realistic. It takes however long it takes. I’ll defer the attitude stuff to others who follow him more closely in that regard. Again he needs to improve but in my view he’s still working through the return to play process and I expect he will improve if he can avoid being hurt again. Pounding the table that he needs to be 100% now when you don’t know how his shoulder feels is just wishful thinking.

look man, I agree. He is still working through it. But he is so far away from being an elite professional hockey player right now, and I think some of us who lean towards my side of the debate are most concerned with gap between where he is now and where he would be if he was a top 20 player in the game. That gap is the Grand Canyon right now. And is this impatience? Sure to a degree. But I’m having a really hard time how he can bridge that gap during the season. And then you can say, okay a healthy offseason is what he needs. Fine. That eats another year of our ELCs, and our clock is ticking on some of the older players, we have Nico’s new deal coming soon. Lots of dominos in play…

Im going to extend a friendly hand and say, we’re all on the same side here. We all want the same things. We look at things in different ways. We can put this debate down for now. I won’t post anymore about Jack.
I really just am very concerned and it’s making me question the long term viability of this core. Because you can’t really change the core that much, and Jack certainly would be the last on the organization wants to seemingly target or marginalize.

 

[Scorcho]

The Devs don't have Center depth. They don't have great goaltending. They don't have a strong+ forward pipeline. Therefore, Jack Hughes determines if this team seriously contends. Not hard if you can try to be the least bit objective instead of making nonsensical strawman arguments (and that's being generous)

hahaahahahahahahaha this is not a remotely true take

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

The Devs don't have Center depth. They don't have great goaltending. They don't have a strong+ forward pipeline. Therefore, Jack Hughes determines if this team seriously contends. Not hard if you can try to be the least bit objective instead of making nonsensical strawman arguments (and that's being generous).

Then they're a bad team, Jack Hughes playing hero hockey or not isn't saving them lmao

 

[Triumph]

I’d guess Patrice wasn’t giving the puck away and being so careless with kind of regularity Jack is now. But fine, I concede I don’t know the exact details of how bad he was after his concussion. You say Jack needs a whole other season and a full healthy off season. I agree. But why not sit him now, let him work out and build up his body and come back actually ready to play high quality professional hockey? He could risk another injury now, and set him back again, and then he may not get that healthy offseason and time to get his body right.

I don’t need to remember the debate and die on the hill. you think I want this? You think I want Jack to suck just for the debate?
No freakin way dude. I want Jack to be the best player in the world. I want him to be the best player this franchise has ever had. I want to come chest out to all the other metro team fans in my life and tell them Panarin, Michkov, etc…etc… all are beneath Jack. But I can’t. Because it’s completely ridiculous.

Literally Casey is a better all around player than Jack is, right now. He certainly makes better decisions with the puck, and plays a more physical game.

You have to understand how fundamentally annoying all of your posts on this are. Everybody knows exactly what you are saying and you do not have to repeat yourself every single post.

There is absolutely no chance of sitting Jack Hughes now. None, zero, not at all. You cited how long you have watched hockey - when have you heard of a superstar player just sitting out when they have been judged healthy enough to play? Is that what a champion does - 'well, I'm just not playing well enough, guess I have to take myself out of the lineup for a bit', or is that what a team does to a player it thinks is a superstar? 'Hey, you're playing poorly - mind sitting out for a while?' Of course not. Don't embarrass yourself by bringing up an idea like that.

 

[SansaStark]

You have to understand how fundamentally annoying all of your posts on this are. Everybody knows exactly what you are saying and you do not have to repeat yourself every single post.

There is absolutely no chance of sitting Jack Hughes now. None, zero, not at all. You cited how long you have watched hockey - when have you heard of a superstar player just sitting out when they have been judged healthy enough to play? Is that what a champion does - 'well, I'm just not playing well enough, guess I have to take myself out of the lineup for a bit', or is that what a team does to a player it thinks is a superstar? 'Hey, you're playing poorly - mind sitting out for a while?' Of course not. Don't embarrass yourself by bringing up an idea like that.

It’s never too early or too late to hand out accountability and consequences. Regardless of the what the past history says.

And if you’re actively hurting the team, especially if it’s injury related. Then yes I’d advocate that player be sat until they get themselves right.

DONE. Let’s move on then friends


I’ve been happy with Haula so far.

Also we’d never get that Washington Game to OT last year.

Kovy, such a pleasant surprise.

I like listening to Keefe so far.

 

[MartyOwns]

Perspective is great. Here’s a perspective:
Jack has shown disturbing trends in his play that far exceed this injury or what this injury should have affected. His attitude in public is immature, his attitude on the ice is immature. All of these things added together paint a very bad picture. This is the trend line right now. I hope he turns it around.

How much time has to pass before someone is not recovering from an injury? How long does the injury excuse last for him?

How does injury affect his ability to make a good decision with the puck? Just confidence? Lack of confidence in his shoulder (?) causing him to make bad decisions? His shoulder lets him make a tape to tape pass one second but then the next shift it doesn’t?

Forget the debate since you’re all going to defend this player regardless of what the trend line, evidence or any metric says.

i actually agree with some of the things you've been saying. but i think your view of jack off the ice (as a condescending, disinterested asshole) is being conflated with his on-ice performance in your mind, and it's clouding your judgement.

just my opinion, carry on with the dumb debate.

 

[SansaStark]

i actually agree with some of the things you've been saying. but i think your view of jack off the ice (as a condescending, disinterested asshole) is being conflated with his on-ice performance in your mind, and it's clouding your judgement.

just my opinion, carry on with the dumb debate.

The debate is over. We all will agree to disagree.

But most importantly, if that player who will not be named, picks it up and starts playing well. We will all be cheering and happy together

 

[dgibb10]

It’s never too early or too late to hand out accountability and consequences. Regardless of the what the past history says.

And if you’re actively hurting the team, especially if it’s injury related. Then yes I’d advocate that player be sat until they get themselves right.

DONE. Let’s move on then friends


I’ve been happy with Haula so far.

Also we’d never get that Washington Game to OT last year.

Kovy, such a pleasant surprise.

I like listening to Keefe so far.

Jack Hughes is not actively hurting the team lmao.

He's not currently CARRYING the team like his is capable of, but he is 100% a net positive on the ice. Benching Jack Hughes makes the devils chances of winning a game significantly less.

And the alternative is Kurtis MacDermid lmao

Palat, Toffoli, Tatar, Mercer, Haula, Lazar, Bastian, Macdermid have all been worse than Jack this year.

 

[My3Sons]

i actually agree with some of the things you've been saying. but i think your view of jack off the ice (as a condescending, disinterested asshole) is being conflated with his on-ice performance in your mind, and it's clouding your judgement.

just my opinion, carry on with the dumb debate.

I'm not sure if you should type those words out that way.

 

[SansaStark]

Jack Hughes is not actively hurting the team lmao.

He's not currently CARRYING the team like his is capable of, but he is 100% a net positive on the ice. Benching Jack Hughes makes the devils chances of winning a game significantly less.

And the alternative is Kurtis MacDermid lmao

Palat, Toffoli, Tatar, Mercer, Haula, Lazar, Bastian, Macdermid have all been worse than Jack this year.

I agree!
Haula and Merc have been fine though.
And Kurtis…that bar is so so so low.

 

[dgibb10]

I agree!
Haula and Merc have been fine though.
And Kurtis…that bar is so so so low.

Except Kurtis is who you're suggesting.

he is the only healthy player in the press box. If you take Jack out, you put macdermid in.

 

[AfroThunder396]

Personally, I wish we had drafted Kaapo Kakko. He's played against men.

 

[Saugus]

Personally, I wish we had drafted Kaapo Kakko. He's played against men.

And Nolan Patrick was the right choice too.

Next Lindros, dontcha know?

 

[NjDevsRR]

Personally, I wish we had drafted Kaapo Kakko. He's played against men.