Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - season begins!

[dgibb10]

"The worst goalie I've seen in 19 seasons of covering the Sabres."

https://x.com/i/web/status/1372984677678649344

Thought this was a recent tweet and the current avs were getting him lmao

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

We can agree to disagree then. I do appreciate that you actually engaged enough to have a debate. I only ask that you try to see the other side. I am not wishing Jack to suck. I want him to be amazing. But there trends are extremely disturbing to me. That includes the personality issues.

Just as you say you’re good at seeing shifting goal posts. Well, I’m good at reading people. And when I watch Jack closely I don’t see the patterns and traits that I see from the other greats. Doesn’t mean he can’t be that or that I’m not reading him correctly. But I don’t see this ultra competitive, do whatever it takes to be great, kinda guy when I see Jack. Not saying he doesn’t work hard, and that is just my personal feeling. I don’t think it’s entirely unreasonable to have this take.

This is just beyond false, the "do whatever it takes to be great" is especially comical because it can get disproven by the fact his shot went from being a pea shooter to borderline elite within 1-2 years. The only thing the guy sucks at is face-offs and he's just not good at them, it happens with certain centers. Sid was also the same way when he first came in for the first couple of years and then became a defensive marvel. He's 4-5 years into his career and already talked about being one of the most gifted Devils forward ever and you're just talking about dumbing his game down so they can grind away cups like it's the 90's when that specific style doesn't work anymore

 

[My3Sons]

He's legitimately one of the worst goalies in the NHL. He's been BAD no matter what team he plays on, peep his numbers, consistently an .880%-something/sub-890% goalie that is 29 years old and has been passed around on waivers. And he's only with Tampa because he's really cheap on the cap and they probably expect Vasilevskiy to play around 60 games.

There's a legit case to be made that he IS the worst goalie on a full time NHL roster. I often times forget he's an NHL regular and not still a third stringer in the AHL when talking about the worst goalies in the league. The Buffalo beat writer famously said of him when he was still there right before they lost him to waivers several years ago that ''He's so bad, he even gets lit up in practice'' or something like that.

We played him last year in the final ''Fire Lindy'' game. Lindy's last home game before the California road trip which ended in his firing. And we only scored one goal on him lol.

that's high praise coming from you. To be one of the worst goalies in your view of goalies is really impressive. He might be worse than me in the net.

 

[SansaStark]

You can have that take all you want.

Expecting others to attribute any value to it is another story.

I don’t have to expect it, I know it. Plenty of others have clearly expressed the same take.
Want to know why? Because we are watching the games. Are you watching? It hasn’t been good FYI…

 

[My3Sons]

I don’t have to expect it, I know it. Plenty of others have clearly expressed the same take.
Want to know why? Because we are watching the games. Are you watching? It hasn’t been good FYI…

Why are you viewing this so myopically? He’s coming off major surgery which robbed him of his offseason.

 

[SansaStark]

This is just beyond false, the "do whatever it takes to be great" is especially comical because it can get disproven by the fact his shot went from being a pea shooter to borderline elite within 1-2 years. The only thing the guy sucks at is face-offs and he's just not good at them, it happens with certain centers. Sid was also the same way when he first came in for the first couple of years and then became a defensive marvel. He's 4-5 years into his career and already talked about being one of the most gifted Devils forward ever and you're just talking about dumbing his game down so they can grind away cups like it's the 90's when that specific style doesn't work anymore

he works on his shot …great. Looks like garbage now. Is that because of his shoulder? The shot is the only thing we work on? Not face offs? which is a crucial aspect of his position.

Sid worked on his face offs. I explicitly remember it was a whole thing in penguins news at the time. So did Mackinnon, so did McDavid. And those players worked on their defensive games, their bodies. And here’s the real important part:
They put up points. All the god damn time. They score goals , like 50+ every year in their prime. They score 1.2-2.0 PPG for multiple years. They use their body when necessary, they push their teammates. They don’t have slumps the way Jack does. They don’t have multiple games in a row where they’re so garbage that they literally cost their team games. Multiple games.

Those players are vastly different from Jack in almost every way.
Jack has had one good year. He needs to put in the work and do that consistently for multiple years before he’s even in the same conversation as those players.

And I’m not suggesting he dumb his game down, just don’t be a jerk with the puck. Stop trying the hero hockey thing when you don’t have the capability to be a hockey hero.
And don’t be a jerk with your mouth either. Give a half decent interview and show some respect. Don’t yell at a player that people pay to see you play. What an absolute cringe thing to say. Says a lot about your personality.

Why are you viewing this so myopically? He’s coming off major surgery which robbed him of his offseason.

Then go get your body right until you can be effective again. Get off this team until you can help it.

 

[Guadana]

Then go get your body right until you can be effective again. Get off this team until you can help it.

It doesnt work this way. Its not off and on. Its about working and working to be close to the peak of the form, training routine, progress etc

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

he works on his shot …great. Looks like garbage now. Is that because of his shoulder? The shot is the only thing we work on? Not face offs? which is a crucial aspect of his position.

Sid worked on his face offs. I explicitly remember it was a whole thing in penguins news at the time. So did Mackinnon, so did McDavid. And those players worked on their defensive games, their bodies. And here’s the real important part:
They put up points. All the god damn time. They score goals , like 50+ every year in their prime. They score 1.2-2.0 PPG for multiple years. They use their body when necessary, they push their teammates. They don’t have slumps the way Jack does. They don’t have multiple games in a row where they’re so garbage that they literally cost their team games. Multiple games.

Those players are vastly different from Jack in almost every way.
Jack has had one good year. He needs to put in the work and do that consistently for multiple years before he’s even in the same conversation as those players.

And I’m not suggesting he dumb his game down, just don’t be a jerk with the puck. Stop trying the hero hockey thing when you don’t have the capability to be a hockey hero.
And don’t be a jerk with your mouth either. Give a half decent interview and show some respect. Don’t yell at a player that people pay to see you play. What an absolute cringe thing to say. Says a lot about your personality.


Then go get your body right until you can be effective again. Get off this team until you can help it.

This right here tells me you're being irrational about this, you can't have these guys drop 120+ points in a season without turnovers or forcing it at times. McDavid has careless turnovers sometimes, MacK does too and Sid 100% does. It's the nature of their games, most times they'll make an amazing play but sometimes that's the risk of trying to do too much. Do I think Jack has been good for his standards this year? f*** no, but your criticism of him has been since the start of last year is getting to be a bit much. The Devils need him going but if the Devils need their star to show up for 82 every year for a punchers chance of being a good team yearly that it's just not feasible. No superstar or player has their games in tact for an entire year, bad stretches happen. He started off super hot last year, got hurt and then didn't look the same. I'd venture he's either timid to make plays to not get hurt again or his shoulder is still an issue somewhat.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

he works on his shot …great. Looks like garbage now. Is that because of his shoulder? The shot is the only thing we work on? Not face offs? which is a crucial aspect of his position.

Sid worked on his face offs. I explicitly remember it was a whole thing in penguins news at the time. So did Mackinnon, so did McDavid. And those players worked on their defensive games, their bodies. And here’s the real important part:
They put up points. All the god damn time. They score goals , like 50+ every year in their prime. They score 1.2-2.0 PPG for multiple years. They use their body when necessary, they push their teammates. They don’t have slumps the way Jack does. They don’t have multiple games in a row where they’re so garbage that they literally cost their team games. Multiple games.

Those players are vastly different from Jack in almost every way.
Jack has had one good year. He needs to put in the work and do that consistently for multiple years before he’s even in the same conversation as those players.

And I’m not suggesting he dumb his game down, just don’t be a jerk with the puck. Stop trying the hero hockey thing when you don’t have the capability to be a hockey hero.
And don’t be a jerk with your mouth either. Give a half decent interview and show some respect. Don’t yell at a player that people pay to see you play. What an absolute cringe thing to say. Says a lot about your personality.


Then go get your body right until you can be effective again. Get off this team until you can help it.

Yeah good, ok.

 

[Edmonton East]

After years of failure you would have thought he would have worked on them. Be a 40-45% FO winner at least.

I will be completely sold on Keefe and his leadership if Jack gets benched. I really find it amazing so many people want to lean so hard on two years ago when there is a very large and robust sample size now of him playing like absolute garbage. Its physical, its mental, its everything.

Yup, and again, even getting 40% with consistent faceoff deployment would be fine. However, he's completely unserviceable. The Jack fan club shouldn't argue with me; go argue with the actual coaching staff that clearly does everything it can to avoid deploying him in a true C role. They don't trust him. It screws up the rotation at ES and forces them to use 1 powerplay unit. That is 99% on Jack.

The other 1% is actually on Fitz. I pointed out the massive risk in heading into this season with the center depth as is and it's already problematic even with a 100% healthy forward core. He needed both Jack to round out his game AND Mercer to rebound production wise plus be a utility C as needed. Oh, and 100% health. Obviously still early and a new coaching staff, but he's only gotten 1 of those 3 things so far.

The folks laughing at this viewpoint are the same that ridiculed those of us who pointed out a defensive core of undersized/soft/ 5'11 guys would be a disaster several years back. At least this org and their brainiac "analytics" gurus corrected that mistake eventually.

Anyway, the faceoff stuff isn't the main issue for Jack. It's the unwillingness to round out his game and continuing to take away his teammates, overhandle the puck, etc. I have to reiterate this so someone doesn't go "you think jack is a BUM because he can't take faceoffs". Doesn't make him a bad player, but it prevents him from being what this org needs to contend and what 90% of this board has laughably already convinced themselves he is. I mean, how do you have a discussion with people claiming his shot is ELITE in this very thread for example? No one that isn't a complete blinded Devils homer would say that, so what's the point?

 

[MasterofGrond]

I don’t have to expect it, I know it. Plenty of others have clearly expressed the same take.
Want to know why? Because we are watching the games. Are you watching? It hasn’t been good FYI…

“Plenty of others” meaning you and the 3 other burners you’re on

 

[Patrik26]

We can agree to disagree then. I do appreciate that you actually engaged enough to have a debate. I only ask that you try to see the other side. I am not wishing Jack to suck. I want him to be amazing. But there trends are extremely disturbing to me. That includes the personality issues.

Just as you say you’re good at seeing shifting goal posts. Well, I’m good at reading people. And when I watch Jack closely I don’t see the patterns and traits that I see from the other greats. Doesn’t mean he can’t be that or that I’m not reading him correctly. But I don’t see this ultra competitive, do whatever it takes to be great, kinda guy when I see Jack. Not saying he doesn’t work hard, and that is just my personal feeling. I don’t think it’s entirely unreasonable to have this take.

The personality issues are a huge problem the way I see it. He was almost assuredly told his entire time growing up how great and wonderful a player he is and found everything came easy to him. Now he's in the NHL where the competition is better and structure is expected. Toss in a couple injuries, one of them being a major shoulder requiring surgery. Maybe adversity that he has never had to face has hit him and now he has to actually grow up and deal with it. Some do. Some don't. Some can't. Just saying. Let's hope it's the first.

 

[SansaStark]

It doesnt work this way. Its not off and on. Its about working and working to be close to the peak of the form, training routine, progress etc

It should work that way if you’re so bad that you’re actually detrimental to the team’s success.





How bad is it when Casey, an undersized rookie who just got sent down, looks better than what NHL considers to be the 20th best player in the league. LOL what a cruel joke on us.

20th best player. He’s not even the top player on his own team. Heck he’s not even top 3

 

[SansaStark]

Yup, and again, even getting 40% with consistent faceoff deployment would be fine. However, he's completely unserviceable. The Jack fan club shouldn't argue with me; go argue with the actual coaching staff that clearly does everything it can to avoid deploying him in a true C role. They don't trust him. It screws up the rotation at ES and forces them to use 1 powerplay unit. That is 99% on Jack.

The other 1% is actually on Fitz. I pointed out the massive risk in heading into this season with the center depth as is and it's already problematic even with a 100% healthy forward core. He needed both Jack to round out his game AND Mercer to rebound production wise plus be a utility C as needed. Oh, and 100% health. Obviously still early and a new coaching staff, but he's only gotten 1 of those 3 things so far.

The folks laughing at this viewpoint are the same that ridiculed those of us who pointed out a defensive core of undersized/soft/ 5'11 guys would be a disaster several years back. At least this org and their brainiac "analytics" gurus corrected that mistake eventually.

Anyway, the faceoff stuff isn't the main issue for Jack. It's the unwillingness to round out his game and continuing to take away his teammates, overhandle the puck, etc. I have to reiterate this so someone doesn't go "you think jack is a BUM because he can't take faceoffs". Doesn't make him a bad player, but it prevents him from being what this org needs to contend and what 90% of this board has laughably already convinced themselves he is. I mean, how do you have a discussion with people claiming his shot is ELITE in this very thread for example? No one that isn't a complete blinded Devils homer would say that, so what's the point?

Completely agree.
The center depth is the main issue with the franchise going forward. Salminen seemingly a miss, Mercer not being able to play there and losing McLeod.

Haula has been somewhat of a pleasant surprise this year so far though so I’ll hold off on him.

1000% agree. I just want to have any kind of discussion about the team and so i reluctantly come here because it’s my only outlet. And all I see are people saying Jack will be fine, Jack is great, Jack isn’t the problem. And it feels like I’m being gaslit because to me, he is literally a full on drag on the teams success. It’s shocking to me how bad he is sometimes. And then people are here like “everything’s fine”
The entire franchise and their cup chances hinge on him being one of the best players in the game. If he’s not, this team is going nowhere. Absolutely nowhere

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Hey folks, I am right about this topic, and all you other fools were wrong. Like always. I am very intelligent and never wrong.

The Devils are winning 51.4% of faceoffs. The defending champions are winning 46%. The Devils were 53.5% last year, 3rd in the league. Really sounds like a make or break thing that we need to dedicate time to talking about .

Jack was a poor faceoff guy and then suffered an injury that literally made him unable to take faceoffs. What is this victory lap? The hell are you talking about?

 

[PizzaAndPucks]

I can't believe you guys are losing your minds about Casey going down, it's not that big of a deal and we will see him up again eventually no doubt.

The fact that he lasted this long in the lineup shows how good of players he already is. He could of had one bad game and been swapped out for someone or sent down. I think he is on game 9 of his "9 game tryout" so maybe that will keep him buried in the AHL for the rest of the year to help slide his ELC over a year.

If the defense stays relatively healthy with Luke & Pesce returning than there really isn't much room for Casey. Hamilton, Pesce, Luke, Siegenthaler, Dillon, Kovacevic, Nemec are pretty much locks for our group of 7. Hatakka will be out for a hit and Misyul being a call up will probably block Casey out

 

[Devils731]

The fact that he lasted this long in the lineup shows how good of players he already is. He could of had one bad game and been swapped out for someone or sent down. I think he is on game 9 of his "9 game tryout" so maybe that will keep him buried in the AHL for the rest of the year to help slide his ELC over a year.

If the defense stays relatively healthy with Luke & Pesce returning than there really isn't much room for Casey. Hamilton, Pesce, Luke, Siegenthaler, Dillon, Kovacevic, Nemec are pretty much locks for our group of 7. Hatakka will be out for a hit and Misyul being a call up will probably block Casey out

There is no slide year for Casey because he signed out of college. Clock ticks on his ELC no matter what.

I bet he likely does not get to 40 games rostered to accrue a year of service though. With Casey already being 20 I don’t think this matters much either way though.

 

[MachoDiablo]

me trying to get through reading the last couple pages

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Hey folks, I am right about this topic, and all you other fools were wrong. Like always. I am very intelligent and never wrong.

The Devils are winning 51.4% of faceoffs. The defending champions are winning 46%. The Devils were 53.5% last year, 3rd in the league. Really sounds like a make or break thing that we need to dedicate time to talking about .

Jack was a poor faceoff guy and then suffered an injury that literally made him unable to take faceoffs. What is this victory lap? The hell are you talking about?

Only two situations where faceoffs truly matter anyway, special teams and empty net situations. Rarely do teams score directly off a draw, something else leads up to a goal being scored. Oh, 3v3 is where it matters too but that's just a goofy format that it's whatever lol

 

[SansaStark]

Hey folks, I am right about this topic, and all you other fools were wrong. Like always. I am very intelligent and never wrong.

The Devils are winning 51.4% of faceoffs. The defending champions are winning 46%. The Devils were 53.5% last year, 3rd in the league. Really sounds like a make or break thing that we need to dedicate time to talking about .

Jack was a poor faceoff guy and then suffered an injury that literally made him unable to take faceoffs. What is this victory lap? The hell are you talking about?

You really don’t understand how Jack, our supposed #1 center, not being able to win a face off is a problem?

You don’t see how it causes problems in our lineup? How it shortens the lineup, forcing players to be FOGO guys way more than you should have to. How it hamstrings the ability to gain possession after a draw on a consistent basis.


Taking some overall team FO stats doesn’t really paint the full context of how it hurts our specific lineup.

FO’s on the whole don’t matter tremendously for the league, but in the specific circumstance of this team, Jack not being able to win a draw is problematic.

 

[britdevil]

 

[mdj12784]

I don’t LIKE Casey getting send down, but I UNDERSTAND it. I hope he tears Utica up!

 

[SJinNewJersey]

I'm sure Jack is going to turn it around real soon. But for now

 

[NjDevsRR]

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Where was this bitching about Jack's turnovers in 22-23? He had a multitude that year too but I guess winning cures all

I don’t LIKE Casey getting send down, but I UNDERSTAND it. I hope he tears Utica up!

It's the smart move and predictable since he got benched in the Ottawa game and they probably need Kovacevic on the kill till Pesce gets back. Only real choice