Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - season begins!

[Bleedred]

How many of you guys out there have actually had a goaltending coach? Anyone? I never had any one who said anything other than basic stuff. Like, a head coach who knows nothing about goaltending stuff.Wtf could he possibly be doing to actually influence the goaltenders more than what the team defense is doing right now, in not playing defense?
I'm curious about his possible impacts and is they could be different than Luke putting it on DeBrincats stick or Dougie passing it to noone at all every time he has it.

They MAKE a HUGE difference. Look at the teams that actually have a good goalie coach. Look what Allaire did for Quick, who changed his style of play.

And look at the teams with bad goalie coaches/bad goalies. They don’t last there very long.

I know you won’t hardly ever blame the goalie, but you won’t even blame the goalie coach? How is keeping the goalie coach any different from if we kept Recchi still this many years, despite a horrible power play for 3 of 4 and now 4 going on 5 years?

I don’t blame Rogalski for everything. Jon Gillies absolutely sucks. And I honestly think Jake Allen is cooked, and he’s performed poorly with other teams. So I don’t think a new goalie coach would help him at all.

We fired the last goalie coach, who got fewer years than Rogalski has now had and he got some better performances (Kinkaid’s career year, the only 2 good seasons of Blackwood’s NHL career) even if there were some bad ones under him as well.

 

[Bleedred]

Safest job in the NHL apparently.

The team hired Manny Legace in the offseason. His title is “head amateur goaltending scout and goalie development coach”. I don’t think we had anyone with that title who Legace replaced.

Legace had been the goalie coach for Columbus for several years, as well as their AHL affiliate for several years before that. He didn’t work anywhere last year. It looks like Elvis’s astronomically bad 22-23 season probably got him ganked. Even though a historically poor performing goalie in Korpisalo had a career year that same season under him.

He was the goalie coach for NHL Columbus between 18-19 and 22-23. So he only had one year with Bobrovsky.

He was the goalie coach for that really good season Elvis had in 19-20 and Elvis played decently for the next two seasons he was there.

Korpisalo also had 2 of his only 3 decent to good NHL seasons while Legace was the Columbus goalie coach.

What does all of this mean? Normally I wouldn’t think a guy brought in to be head of goalie scouting had a chance to be new goalie coach, but where he also has the development coach title, he has prior experience as an NHL goalie coach AND combined with Rogalski PROBABLY being on the hot seat this year, this feels like when a team hires a former head coach as assistant or associate when the head coach is very clearly on the hot seat. Think Brunette a couple of years ago.

 

[Bleedred]

I’m not sure I believe the Ian Clark stuff. From what it sounded like he stepped into a new role for health reasons?

Of course it’s easy for people to try and connect him to us. Because Rogalski is no-count and it would appear he’s on the hot seat, and Clark is a very experienced goalie coach in the NHL. Has about 20+ years experience.

But saying we’re connected to him is almost like saying in January of last year “Reports are that Lindy Ruff is on the hot seat”. You don’t need inside info to know that.

 

[Zippy316]

Bratt on the 3rd line is heresy.

I agree with the rest of what you said for the most part. But Bratt would be better suited on the 1st line and swap Mercer to the 3rd. Mercer is basically producing like a 3rd liner or worse at this moment.

Bratt wouldn’t be on the third line by way of a demotion but more so he can carry his own line and spread the offense out. He’s still going to be on PP1 and the second/third PK group.

If I’m an opposing team, I need to decide whether I want my third pairing/line out against Hischier, Hughes, or Bratt. If the Devils need to stack the lines, you throw Bratt with Hughes/Hischier in the top six.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

How many of you guys out there have actually had a goaltending coach? Anyone? I never had any one who said anything other than basic stuff. Like, a head coach who knows nothing about goaltending stuff.Wtf could he possibly be doing to actually influence the goaltenders more than what the team defense is doing right now, in not playing defense?
I'm curious about his possible impacts and is they could be different than Luke putting it on DeBrincats stick or Dougie passing it to noone at all every time he has it.

watching the last 3 games and sticking up for the goaltending is an absolutely RIDICULOUS take lol jfc man

 

[Whaddagoal]

Bratt wouldn’t be on the third line by way of a demotion but more so he can carry his own line and spread the offense out. He’s still going to be on PP1 and the second/third PK group.

If I’m an opposing team, I need to decide whether I want my third pairing/line out against Hischier, Hughes, or Bratt. If the Devils need to stack the lines, you throw Bratt with Hughes/Hischier in the top six.

I understand you, I thought we had that depth in 22-23 to pull that off, we do now too, but it really depends on how Keefe sees ice time distribution. Id rather not short change Bratts ice time on third line (if Keefe goes traditional top 2 get the large ratio).

Given how Mercer is playing so far, is rather see him on the 3rd instead of and overload Bratt with Nico.

In a perfect world, your lines cause a lot of teams headaches.

 

[Bleedred]

watching the last 3 games and sticking up for the goaltending is an absolutely RIDICULOUS take lol jfc man

I don't think goaltending was the difference in the Tampa game, though Allen gave up his fair share of poor goals. The team was horrible that night.

But it was absolutely the difference in the last two. We were by far the better team in the Detroit game, and the game winner with just minutes left in regulation was horrible.

Last game the teams were about even, but that horrible second rebound and goal on Allen was basically the difference in that one.

If that was Cory Schneider who gave up that rebound in 2014 he definitely would have shredded him for that one, and probably even talked about it for a week.

 

[DVision44]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1850545444390142404

@billingtons ghost Yeah... I'm gonna get it in for a 3rd time.... I don't know what team you're currently or have been watching but the goaltending here has and continues to SUCK!

 

[billingtons ghost]

They MAKE a HUGE difference. Look at the teams that actually have a good goalie coach. Look what Allaire did for Quick, who changed his style of play.

And look at the teams with bad goalie coaches/bad goalies. They don’t last there very long.

I know you won’t hardly ever blame the goalie, but you won’t even blame the goalie coach? How is keeping the goalie coach any different from if we kept Recchi still this many years, despite a horrible power play for 3 of 4 and now 4 going on 5 years?

I don’t blame Rogalski for everything. Jon Gillies absolutely sucks. And I honestly think Jake Allen is cooked, and he’s performed poorly with other teams. So I don’t think a new goalie coach would help him at all.

We fired the last goalie coach, who got fewer years than Rogalski has now had and he got some better performances (Kinkaid’s career year, the only 2 good seasons of Blackwood’s NHL career) even if there were some bad ones under him as well.

Yeah, I think they make a difference in the first few years of a career, but I don't understand how you can point to this guy when Markstrom has bad numbers or a 34 yr old Jake Allen.

I think I've seen the same story for about seven goalies now, including the cooked Jake Allen: look like franchise savers for five games, standing on your head, and then fall apart after our team destroys their confidence and had them guessing or playing back in the net.

When Keefe gets the team playing in position and actually being there to check opposing players instead of wide open looks, the goalie numbers will get better. You could fire rogalski and hire God and it wouldn't help those guys back there.

 

[Bleedred]

Yeah, I think they make a difference in the first few years of a career, but I don't understand how you can point to this guy when Markstrom has bad numbers or a 34 yr old Jake Allen.

I think I've seen the same story for about seven goalies now, including the cooked Jake Allen: look like franchise savers for five games, standing on your head, and then fall apart after our team destroys their confidence and had them guessing or playing back in the net.

When Keefe gets the team playing in position and actually being there to check opposing players instead of wide open looks, the goalie numbers will get better. You could fire rogalski and hire God and it wouldn't help those guys back there.

I don't agree that it helps for the ''First few years'' of a career. Quick reinvented himself at 37 years old with the best goalie coach in the league.

That same goalie coach also made Sean Burke elite at in his early and mid 30s. The same Sean Burke who did nothing here, other than one playoffs. He stunk the rest of his time here.

It's also happened with other goalies under new goalie coaches.

I mean, even Chris Terreri got fired after the first down year Schneider had, while they brought in his former goalie coach in Vancouver to try and get him back on track. It just didn't work because Schneider's hips and body were physically done.

 

[billingtons ghost]

@billingtons ghost Yeah... I'm gonna get it in for a 3rd time.... I don't know what team you're currently or have been watching but the goaltending here has and continues to SUCK!

I'm actually watching the games and seeing passes to debrincat in alone, no one getting a stick on guys in front of the net, letting Hedman, Kane , Wilson and whoever else walk in alone with all kinds of time. I'm watching Jack Hughes lose his check and Dougie Hamilton be completely lost out there. I'm watching stupid penalties at exactly the wrong time, like Mercer's cross check. I'm looking at clueless Peace and Luke who can't get out of our zone.

I'm not sure what games you're watching other don't stupid derivative numbers?

Do you think this team is playing hockey that is at all friendly to goaltending?

Do you remember what it was like when we had forwards committed to playing well defensively, and when we had guys who could protect the crease and get the pick to other guys who could look up ice and complete a pass?

When was the last time you saw that? John Marino? Damon Severson?

AT some point, after the Blackwoods go from likely Team Canada goalie to garbage, and Vanacek from top five goalie to last, and Allen and Markstrom from what they are to what they've become, and you look around the league and see guys have amazing numbers on good teams and then go elsewhere and get lit up or vice versa...

You got to start looking at goaltending as a commodity.

Fitz bought your elite goaltender for you. Same problems. Different season.

You want maybe Shesterkin next year so he can see what life is like without Zib and Trochek and a couple of big bodies on defense that actually use their bodies?

 

[My3Sons]

I'm actually watching the games and seeing passes to debrincat in alone, no one getting a stick on guys in front of the net, letting Hedman, Kane , Wilson and whoever else walk in alone with all kinds of time. I'm watching Jack Hughes lose his check and Dougie Hamilton be completely lost out there. I'm watching stupid penalties at exactly the wrong time, like Mercer's cross check. I'm looking at clueless Peace and Luke who can't get out of our zone.

I'm not sure what games you're watching other don't stupid derivative numbers?

Do you think this team is playing hockey that is at all friendly to goaltending?

Do you remember what it was like when we had forwards committed to playing well defensively, and when we had guys who could protect the crease and get the pick to other guys who could look up ice and complete a pass?

When was the last time you saw that? John Marino? Damon Severson?

AT some point, after the Blackwoods go from likely Team Canada goalie to garbage, and Vanacek from top five goalie to last, and Allen and Markstrom from what they are to what they've become, and you look around the league and see guys have amazing numbers on good teams and then go elsewhere and get lit up or vice versa...

You got to start looking at goaltending as a commodity.

Fitz bought your elite goaltender for you. Same problems. Different season.

You want maybe Shesterkin next year so he can see what life is like without Zib and Trochek and a couple of big bodies on defense that actually use their bodies?

Does NJ give up bad looks at a much higher rate than other teams? I’m not being confrontational I’m genuinely curious. A couple of games this season have been scrambly but not all of them.

 

[Emperoreddy]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1850578013638820235

 

[Bleedred]

It's funny to mention the last 7 goalies, as that's probably about as many as we've had under Rogalski.

Without counting Comrie, as he was here for one game and Kahkonen, who was here for four, we've had....

Blackwood, Wedgewood, Dell, Gillies, Daws, Schmid, Vanecek. That's 7 guys without even counting Allen or Markstrom. Markstrom has been here for a minute. Allen has been here for about two.

Some of these goalies are such a laughing stock that I don't blame Rogalski. Dell was finished and done in the NHL. Gillies never should have been in the NHL and somehow managed to put up worse numbers in the AHL the next year than he did on the NHL Devils that year. He didn't even play pro hockey last year at all, but has played an ECHL game this year.

Daws and Schmid are certainly question marks, though I'm not sure playing under Rogalski has helped either. Blackwood did suck in the AHL, so maybe it wasn't Rogalski there, but he did improve slightly (not anything significantly) after going to the Sharks.

Wedgewood was 30 years old before he stuck in the NHL full time, but he actually got a pretty good goalie coach in Dallas not too long after leaving here. I'm sure Jeff Reese was of more help in his NHL career longevity than....Dave Rogalski. Jeff Reeese was the goalie coach when Steve Mason suddenly resurrected his career in Philly. And I'm pretty sure when Reese left is when Mason went SPLAT again.

I'm not sure about Vanecek. It's looking like whatever happened here in the 2023 playoffs could have been the point of no return for him in the NHL. Maybe not so much Rogalski.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Does NJ give up bad looks at a much higher rate than other teams? I’m not being confrontational I’m genuinely curious. A couple of games this season have been scrambly but not all of them.

no, they do not. The statistics don't bear that out and neither does the eye test.

 

[Bleedred]

Does NJ give up bad looks at a much higher rate than other teams? I’m not being confrontational I’m genuinely curious. A couple of games this season have been scrambly but not all of them.

Probably in some games, like the Tampa one I would say YES.

Last two? NO! Especially not against Detroit. I think one of the most dangerous chances last game, outside of probably 3 of the goals (that rebound goal SUCKED) was when Luke gave it away in our end shorthanded.

 

[My3Sons]

Probably in some games, like the Tampa one I would say YES.

Last two? NO! Especially not against Detroit. I think one of the most dangerous chances last game, outside of probably 3 of the goals (that rebound goal SUCKED) was when Luke gave it away in our end shorthanded.

Against Detroit and the Islanders I definitely thought thr opposing goalie was the difference in the game.

 

[Bleedred]

Against Detroit and the Islanders I definitely thought thr opposing goalie was the difference in the game.

And our goalie sucked in both of those games.

I mean, Allen wasn't horrible against the Islanders. He just wasn't as good as Sorokin was.

 

[glenwo2]

It's funny to mention the last 7 goalies, as that's probably about as many as we've had under Rogalski.

Without counting Comrie, as he was here for one game and Kahkonen, who was here for four, we've had....

Blackwood, Wedgewood, Dell, Gillies, Daws, Schmid, Vanecek. That's 7 guys without even counting Allen or Markstrom. Markstrom has been here for a minute. Allen has been here for about two.

Some of these goalies are such a laughing stock that I don't blame Rogalski. Dell was finished and done in the NHL. Gillies never should have been in the NHL and somehow managed to put up worse numbers in the AHL the next year than he did on the NHL Devils that year. He didn't even play pro hockey last year at all, but has played an ECHL game this year.

Daws and Schmid are certainly question marks, though I'm not sure playing under Rogalski has helped either. Blackwood did suck in the AHL, so maybe it wasn't Rogalski there, but he did improve slightly (not anything significantly) after going to the Sharks.

Wedgewood was 30 years old before he stuck in the NHL full time, but he actually got a pretty good goalie coach in Dallas not too long after leaving here. I'm sure Jeff Reese was of more help in his NHL career longevity than....Dave Rogalski. Jeff Reeese was the goalie coach when Steve Mason suddenly resurrected his career in Philly. And I'm pretty sure when Reese left is when Mason went SPLAT again.

I'm not sure about Vanecek. It's looking like whatever happened here in the 2023 playoffs could have been the point of no return for him in the NHL. Maybe not so much Rogalski.

Doesn't mean that Rogalski is untouchable.

He should've been replaced a long time ago.

 

[Desert Devil]

If Rogalski is the issue then I wonder what exactly he is preaching that is not working? Both of our goalies are vets. Rogalski isn’t an old guy so he doesn’t strike me as a my way or the highway coach. You don’t think Marky or Allen would be giving their input about how they want to play? Modern goalie coaching is much more based on each individual goalie than trying to make each goalie fit some rigid type of goaltending. I think goalie coaching in the nhl is more about fine tuning their skills and technical play than it is monumental revamping of a goalies play style.

I didn’t watch either of our goalies much on their prior teams so I couldn’t tell you if they are playing any different. Can anyone else? I’m not defending Rogalski. I couldn’t care less if he’s here or not. Without sitting and watching a practice there is no way to really know what is going wrong. The results have not been acceptable in any of the years he’s been here so it’s understandable to want him gone but before this year we’ve basically given him garbage to work with.

 

[MasterofGrond]

either our goaltending is bad because of rogalski

Or it’s bad and Rogalski isn’t fixing it

Either way he should go. Best time to fire a goalie coach is last season. Second best time is today.

 

[Bleedred]

either our goaltending is bad because of rogalski

Or it’s bad and Rogalski isn’t fixing it

Either way he should go. Best time to fire a goalie coach is last season. Second best time is today.

Again, I wonder if the hiring of Manny Legace is any kind of indication that Rogalski may be on the hot seat? Like when recent NHL head coach Andrew Brunette is hired to be the associate coach to a Lindy Ruff who just narrowly avoided being fired the year before, but had his two main assistants offed instead?

But goalie coaches are very rarely fired in-season. When it does happen it seems to coincide with a head coaching change, where the goalie coach and an assistant go with him.

 

[Triumph]

I will say that while I think billingtons ghost's theory about 'goalies who play for the Devils are ruined' is nonsense, it really has been an incredible start for anyone who's donned the red and black at any level - Utica's goalies have been awful, New Jersey's have been bad, Vanecek, Blackwood, and Wedgewood are looking at around an .870 combined SV%, Schmid's rocking an .840 in Henderson - about the only ones who've been any good are Kinkaid who has played one game in the ECHL for some reason and Eric Comrie who played one game for the organization 4 years ago.

 

[DVision44]

I'm actually watching the games and seeing passes to debrincat in alone, no one getting a stick on guys in front of the net, letting Hedman, Kane , Wilson and whoever else walk in alone with all kinds of time. I'm watching Jack Hughes lose his check and Dougie Hamilton be completely lost out there. I'm watching stupid penalties at exactly the wrong time, like Mercer's cross check. I'm looking at clueless Peace and Luke who can't get out of our zone.

I'm not sure what games you're watching other don't stupid derivative numbers?

Do you think this team is playing hockey that is at all friendly to goaltending?

Do you remember what it was like when we had forwards committed to playing well defensively, and when we had guys who could protect the crease and get the pick to other guys who could look up ice and complete a pass?

When was the last time you saw that? John Marino? Damon Severson?

AT some point, after the Blackwoods go from likely Team Canada goalie to garbage, and Vanacek from top five goalie to last, and Allen and Markstrom from what they are to what they've become, and you look around the league and see guys have amazing numbers on good teams and then go elsewhere and get lit up or vice versa...

You got to start looking at goaltending as a commodity.

Fitz bought your elite goaltender for you. Same problems. Different season.

You want maybe Shesterkin next year so he can see what life is like without Zib and Trochek and a couple of big bodies on defense that actually use their bodies?

Same problem? Yeah it’s the goaltenders letting in softies every game

 

[Devs3cups]

I'd like Nemec to be sent down to Utica if he's not gonna play.