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Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - season begins!

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Edmonton East said:
This team goes nowhere without drastic improvement from Jack. It's obvious. The kid's 6th year in the league and he still can't be trusted to take faceoffs as a fraudulent "elite" C. As stated previously, no, faceoffs aren't mission critical for him so save the strawman rebuttals. However, his apparent unwillingness to work on them AT ALL screams lack of maturity....even if you ignore his temper tantrums and pouting over the years.

Some of us realized Jack's game had plateaued under Grandpa Lindy. He needs tough love to grow at this point, similar to MacKinnon previously. He's not using his teammates efficiently. He holds the puck too long. Worst of all, he constantly takes away teammates by skating into their space, often bringing a defender with him and eliminating a passing option. One assist here and there doesn't make up for constant turnovers. His minutes better drop soon to send a message.

Sure, he should have a couple more assists if guys finished. Reality is you can say that for every single top playmaker in the league. So that's a pretty naïve crutch to lean on.


Most on here certainly did not agree. The few of us who criticized it were chastised.
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After years of failure you would have thought he would have worked on them. Be a 40-45% FO winner at least.

I will be completely sold on Keefe and his leadership if Jack gets benched. I really find it amazing so many people want to lean so hard on two years ago when there is a very large and robust sample size now of him playing like absolute garbage. Its physical, its mental, its everything.
 
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Deviled said:
I dont know about the specifics of the advanced stats, but I felt even Connor McDavid went through this a bit where his brilliant production and offensive wizardry still wasnt leading to the results he and his team wanted

McDavid is the best player by far in this league and even he has been finding more gears at ages 25-26-27 etc... Jack is only 23 for this entire season and is learning the same as Connor, I feel

No I dont think he becomes Connor McDavid of course lol; I think he learns to round out his game and figure out his issues and works toward fixing them
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Will he? What has learned recently? He doesn't look like he's grown his game at all. Still can't take a faceoff. I don't think Jack is interested at learning anything at this point. Does he even know his issues? Do the coaches speak to him about his issues? Who exactly is holding this player accountable?

Mackinnon/McDavid/Crosby...those guys are superstars because they work their ass off. They demand greatness from themselves and their teammates. Jack tells other players that people come to see ME play. Jack is all about ME. Not about the team and his own personal growth for the team's success.
 
NJDevs26 said:
Seriously…portraying Palat as something only one or two people were criticizing at the time is blatantly misremembering and conflating anyone at all criticizing your opinion with everyone having a hive mind

Confirmed with Link: - Weekesbomb: Palat to NJ for five-year deal

Definitely wasn’t a panic move. Was just Fitz overvaluing and chasing grit and experience and championship pedigree. Anything at $5m or more per year is going to be ugly.
forums.hfboards.com forums.hfboards.com

Definitely seems split at best, especially after the terms came out. I’m not even embarrassed to be on the ‘wrong’ side cause I don’t think even the cynics thought he’d be as bad on the ice as he’s been this soon - dating back to his ‘second’ season. I’m more annoyed he’s been a disappointment the first three years than I am hand wringing over the last two.
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Yeah, I think it was more like only one or two people thought it was great. I remember being a little more positive on it, but it was obvious it was gonna get ugly later.

It just got ugly earlier. It looks like we're not even gonna get even one particularly good season out of him. I mean, he was solid his first year, but injured for almost half the games. He was good last year, but missed a stretch of games (felt like he missed more than 11 games but apparently he did not) and he never hit 40 points here. He may have in season one if he played almost all of the games.

And I think he may still finish the season with 30-ish points like he had last year, assuming he doesn't miss a considerable amount of time. Market corrections and all lol. We all remember the hot second half Cory Schneider .920% run in 18-19 that followed the first 9 games of .850% that he put up. But as we saw with him (I know, different positions, whatever), I wouldn't take it seriously if he had a 50 point pace stretch which pushes him to 50 points by season's end. I don't think it means he'll be a 40-50 point player in 25-26 in the case that does happen. I think his best days are done, even his best Devils days are likely over.
 
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Didn't catch the game but have to think once Luke and Pesce are healthy that Casey (guaranteed) and Nemec (possibly) would make sense to be sent down.
 
not sure what thread this was in, but someone said something along the lines of if jack doesn’t figure it out we’re screwed.

i actually don’t believe this to be true based on the teams play. sure we’ve had a couple games where the defense was lacking, but they came back to at least get a point in one of them, played a very well rested and heavy team in carolina and got smoked by a bad first period in toronto.

that being said, our team defense and game has been what has kept us in the winning column (albeit sample size is smal) but i don’t see any world in where that doesn’t continue. they’re doing it now with virtually no rest / practice and a new coach.

i think because of this, we’re actually in a great spot. Jack has been subpar at best and we’re still 5-2-1. in previous years, when Jack was off, our record reflected it. now we play in a style to where if he were hurt / had to miss any stretch of games, i would feel fairly confident that we could ride it out.

i do think a player like Haula going back with Hughes would be a huge help, so maybe at the deadline or even earlier we try to snag a bottom 6 center so we can move Haula up.

jack has looked about the same on the wing as he has at center in these 8 games, so i think Haula taking face offs and in the defensive zone being the “center” could help bring Jacks play back up to where we all know he is capable.

i’m tempted to try Haula with him now, but not sure how the offense would shape up. could it be something like:

Meier-Hischier-Mercer
Haula-Hughes-Bratt
Tatar-Cotter-Noesen
Palat-Lazar-Bastian

main problem with this bottom 6 is that i’m not sure Cotter is a real center even if he took some faceoffs while on Jacks line.
 
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SansaStark said:
After years of failure you would have thought he would have worked on them. Be a 40-45% FO winner at least.

I will be completely sold on Keefe and his leadership if Jack gets benched. I really find it amazing so many people want to lean so hard on two years ago when there is a very large and robust sample size now of him playing like absolute garbage. Its physical, its mental, its everything.
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I’d be interested in this robust sample of him playing like absolute garbage that isn’t injury/surgery related. I was under the impression that he’s been on the best offensive players in the history of the franchise.
 
I hope Jack is not injured again - but he has not been very good.

He doesn't seem like he got any stronger, which is disappointing, considering he has been very injury prone.
 
SansaStark said:
Will he? What has learned recently? He doesn't look like he's grown his game at all. Still can't take a faceoff. I don't think Jack is interested at learning anything at this point. Does he even know his issues? Do the coaches speak to him about his issues? Who exactly is holding this player accountable?

Mackinnon/McDavid/Crosby...those guys are superstars because they work their ass off. They demand greatness from themselves and their teammates. Jack tells other players that people come to see ME play. Jack is all about ME. Not about the team and his own personal growth for the team's success.
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The time to learn these things would be when he finally gets a coach who will make sure to instill those ideas and habits into him; which I dont think he had until recently with Sheldon Keefe

Sheldon Keefe isnt going to just sit by idle because Jack is PPG+ and producing, if his effort level and consistency in his all-around game is lacking. This is something Ruff likely would have, being a players' coach and all. Heck, this may be why Jack was so fond of him and Nico was less than so

It was good for Jack's confidence to have free reign over his playstyle but now he needs to reel it back in, and I believe Keefe is the perfect man to help him do that
 
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I don't believe Nico disliked Ruff or didn't get along with him. Maybe he was whatever on him.

The one guy of the four they interviewed after he was fired who seemed to be happy or at least give zero f***s was Timo. And he was only with Ruff for the least amount of any of them.

Bratt sounded really upset and sad when they interviewed him. Jack wasn't happy, but not nearly as down as Bratt. Nico was a bit less down than Jack was, but at the very least seemed bummed and regretful that the poor performance of the season led to Lindy being fired.
 
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RSeen said:
I hope Jack is not injured again - but he has not been very good.

He doesn't seem like he got any stronger, which is disappointing, considering he has been very injury prone.
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Just because he is post surgery and medically stable doesn’t mean he isn’t still feeling it. I once tore a ligament in my ankle and it was 8 weeks on crutches and then some rehab but it was about two years before I could get my foot into a ski boot without pain. I’m sure Jack is very cognizant of that shoulder and probably playing similarly to how he was before he shut it down last season.
 
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SteveCangialosi123 said:
I’d be interested in this robust sample of him playing like absolute garbage that isn’t injury/surgery related. I was under the impression that he’s been on the best offensive players in the history of the franchise.
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The injury excuse doesn’t work when the mistakes and issues you’re having aren’t related to just simply your lack of physicality and willingness to have a board battle…that’s not say those aren’t issues but unfortunately his issues are far beyond that.
 
Deviled said:
The time to learn these things would be when he finally gets a coach who will make sure to instill those ideas and habits into him; which I dont think he had until recently with Sheldon Keefe

Sheldon Keefe isnt going to just sit by idle because Jack is PPG+ and producing, if his effort level and consistency in his all-around game is lacking. This is something Ruff likely would have, being a players' coach and all. Heck, this may be why Jack was so fond of him and Nico was less than so

It was good for Jack's confidence to have free reign over his playstyle but now he needs to reel it back in, and I believe Keefe is the perfect man to help him do that
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I hope with every ounce of my being that Keefe does something to break the cycle and he holds Jack accountable. Now. Because it’s not getting better.
 
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SansaStark said:
The injury excuse doesn’t work when the mistakes and issues you’re having aren’t related to just simply your lack of physicality and willingness to have a board battle…that’s not say those aren’t issues but unfortunately his issues are far beyond that.
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I’m not aware of an extended run of poor play that isn’t injury related though — unless it’s simply these 8 games after surgery. You seem to be referring to some other set of games. When did this happen? He didn’t have a shoulder last season, so it can’t be then. The last full season he was healthy he was the most electric player in the history of the franchise in a season we broke our regular season points record.

I ask again, when was this extended run of poor play that didn’t occur around an injury?
 
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Jack has been fine defensively, it's been his on the puck play that is not sufficient, and Keefe can't really do anything about that except bench him for bad plays. The thing is, that used to be the first move for a lot of coaches, but now that's the last resort. It's not 2003 and Pat Burns isn't the coach, this just isn't how it works in the NHL anymore.

Jack Hughes isn't going to work as another cog of interchangeable parts. He plays a special game, and coaches know that.

It's very funny to watch his detractors who've been mostly quiet for the last 4 years start to get loud again - Jack Hughes has already jumped from a 2C into being a superstar player. I can go back to 2021 on this forum and find people saying now-laughable things about this player. Hughes didn't come all that way just on natural ability (whatever that is). He didn't drift into being a star, he clearly worked at it, and I don't think he's ready to be whatever this version of him is so far this season.
 
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