Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part IV

[Devilsgrl35]

I'm just glad he's getting it now and not a month from now. He's still in the window of time to be back and ready to go in October.

 

[Bcap88]

Without looking at his medical chart, and spending 5 years in residency I don't think I can say it was a clear cut and obvious decision, but I don't trust the medical staff, or the FO that's now feeling the heat after a disastrous season.

I hope he can truly recover and no long term damage was done.

It was probably a tweener injury such as a labrum issue where it could be healed with rest if they really wanted too or it could def be healed with surgery and they likely opted surgery just to get it done with

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

Mickey Mouse organization top to bottom

 

[MartyOwns]

there goes any chance of trading him for barkov

 

[Unknown Caller]

This place is so dramatic. It was clearly something Jack could play through at limited effectiveness and then address the surgery in the offseason.

For anyone blaming management or the medical staff, I promise you that Jack was likely pounding the table to play. You don’t look him in the eyes and say no if he wants to be out there with the team.

 

[My3Sons]

See my post above about $$$. This organization sucks. Winning isn't the priority, nor is the future. It was and always will be about now and how much money can be made NOW. Yeah, he'll be ready for training camp assuming everything goes according to plan. But what if it doesn't? Maybe the extra month or so would come into play by shutting him down earlier.


EDIT: And yet I'll still be watching tonight. And Thursday. And Saturday. And Monday. Damn.

I think the winning and the money go hand in hand which is why this sort of thing happens. If we as fans could see the season was over I'm disappointed the team couldn't admit it. As @Cheddabombs explained, even if Jack played and they snuck into the playoffs, how far were they going to get? Maybe they manage two extra home games before losing in five. Is that changing anything about the playoffs? Just so disappointing. I'd like to speak to Fitz off the record and ask about this. Did the doctors really say he can't hurt things worse? Did letting Jack play all this time make no difference in a recovery timetable?

 

[BurntToast]

I don’t get the bitching about Luke on the PP. With Dougie out, Luke was the best option on the PP.

I sort of understood it when Luke was slumping but he’s been our best defenseman for the month. And now Nemec looks like the guy who slammed headfirst into the rookie wall.

Not sure what people were seeing with Nemec on the PP vs Luke.

For instance, Luke had 3 SH GA and Nemec had 5 SH GA, despite Luke playing ~270 minutes and Nemec playing 75 minutes.

And that Goal Differential isn’t fluky, opposing teams had way more offense when Nemec was on the PP.

Of course some of that is the fault of the rest of PP2, but Nemec has a harder time transitioning the puck out of the defensive zone and struggles more keeping it in the offensive zone.

Luke’s agility and speed allows him to correct turnovers in a way that Nemec, or most other defensemen can’t. He actually has very few turnovers at the blueline, less than Dougie, Severson, Smith, etc did.

We have an easier time getting the puck into the offensive zone, and keeping there, with Luke than we did with Dougie last season.

Dougie gives us an incredible 1-2 punch on the PP though and Luke’s minutes could have been more manageable with him in the line-up.

Again, I genuinely don’t understand why people see Luke’s PP time as indulgent.

Luke is great at holding the line. He is a great passer. He isn’t the best shooter and he forces passes to Jack. Its not a negative. He could balance the PP units.

As a whole PP2 is less talented, everyone shoots with very little setup, and struggle to transition, making you point about Nemec moot. Luke could of helped PP2.

 

[MadDevil]

Didn't know we had so many medical experts here, but good on them for finally admitting the season is done and shutting him down. Realistically it's been done for a while, but hockey players being hockey players and being in the "rah rah our sport is so tough because we play through shit we shouldn't" culture, I'm sure Jack didn't want to throw in the towel until he had to. Hopefully he's 100% and ready for the redemption that will be 2024-25 for this team.

 

[mdj12784]

Unpopular take: I’d shut the core down, and call up Utica. I know it’s super unrealistic, but it’s a lost season, with few games left. Just focus on the off-season and be itching for training camp.

 

[My3Sons]

This place is so dramatic. It was clearly something Jack could play through at limited effectiveness and then address the surgery in the offseason.

For anyone blaming management or the medical staff, I promise you that Jack was likely pounding the table to play. You don’t look him in the eyes and say no if he wants to be out there with the team.

While you aren't wrong, I see it a bit differently. I have a son the same age as Jack. He's still a very young man and has limited life experience and horizons. Of course Jack wants to play and he's tough in his own way (I think any smaller player who succeeds in the NHL is tough given how they are generally on the losing end of the confrontation) but someone has to look past the immediate issues. I just don't think they needed to push it this long. The season has been effectively over for weeks.

 

[Mgd31]

This place is so dramatic. It was clearly something Jack could play through at limited effectiveness and then address the surgery in the offseason.

For anyone blaming management or the medical staff, I promise you that Jack was likely pounding the table to play. You don’t look him in the eyes and say no if he wants to be out there with the team.

Exactly, there is no way you were holding Jack back from playing when he still could and wanted to and there was a chance at the playoffs.

 

[My3Sons]

Didn't know we had so many medical experts here, but good on them for finally admitting the season is done and shutting him down. Realistically it's been done for a while, but hockey players being hockey players and being in the "rah rah our sport is so tough because we play through shit we shouldn't" culture, I'm sure Jack didn't want to throw in the towel until he had to. Hopefully he's 100% and ready for the redemption that will be 2024-25 for this team.

You have me here. You don't need any other experts.

 

[NJDevs26]

Didn't know we had so many medical experts here, but good on them for finally admitting the season is done and shutting him down.

Realistically though everyone was calling the shoulder thing for months even when the team wasn't giving us shit so this isn't exactly the thing to clap back against 'the medical experts' here since it was actually sussed out and assumed correctly.

 

[Killing Joke]

We have the dumbest medical and management staff.

 

[Whaddagoal]

Here to rant that this team/organization sucks so much right now. Total clown show.

Why not have Jack get the surgery months ago when it was evident to everyone that this was an issue.

Why have him in all these critical game spots if he's playing injured. We maybe could have given holtz or Timo (pre ruff firing) or someone more time in PP1 while Jack was injured. Get something out of the PP instead of going listless for 30 games no changes.

We had the team trying to stay in the race for months (since Jan) and these guys had no thought to shut Jack down and let him recover properly.

We did the same with Dougie but not with Jack? What happened to next man up mentality?

Such a wasted season and then on top of it risk to Jack Hughes long term career health. Your franchise player.

Watching Jack be not great for last 30 games of season and then have him anchor some key spots while basically being a gimp.

Clownshow management. So frustrating and heavy signs of incompetence here.

 

[MartyOwns]

This place is so dramatic. It was clearly something Jack could play through at limited effectiveness and then address the surgery in the offseason.

For anyone blaming management or the medical staff, I promise you that Jack was likely pounding the table to play. You don’t look him in the eyes and say no if he wants to be out there with the team.

i might agree with you if hughes was healthy enough to...checks notes...take a faceoff. playing him that injured in a season that was in all likelihood lost weeks ago is so far beyond shortsighted and irresponsible it's not even funny. heads need to roll this summer and i'm starting to think fitz doesn't have the grapes to do it.

 

[Devilsgrl35]

Here to rant that this team/organization sucks so much right now. Total clown show.

Why not have Jack get the surgery months ago when it was evident to everyone that this was an issue.

Why have him in all these critical game spots if he's playing injured. We maybe could have given holtz or Timo (pre ruff firing) or someone more time in PP1 while Jack was injured. Get something out of the PP instead of going listless for 30 games no changes.

We had the team trying to stay in the race for months (since Jan) and these guys had no thought to shut Jack down and let him recover properly.

We did the same with Dougie but not with Jack? What happened to next man up mentality?

Such a wasted season and then on top of it risk to Jack Hughes long term career health. Your franchise player.

Watching Jack be not great for last 30 games of season and then have him anchor some key spots while basically being a gimp.

Clownshow management. So frustrating and heavy signs of incompetence here.

Because Jack might not have wanted to give up on the season until he knew it was actually over. If he wanted to keep playing and he couldn't get injured more then what can you do if the player wants to play and you still have a chance?

People need to remember surgery is the players ultimate decision. It's not your body and you don't need to go through the surgery and then the rehab.

 

[Guttersniped]

Luke is great at holding the line. He is a great passer. He isn’t the best shooter and he forces passes to Jack. Its not a negative. He could balance the PP units.

As a whole PP2 is less talented, everyone shoots with very little setup, and struggle to transition, making you point about Nemec moot. Luke could of helped PP2.

So you think Nemec should have replaced Luke on the PP1?

Luke could have helped PP2 while Nemec makes PP1 worse?

There’s only one unit that matters, PP1, that’s where a team get most of the production from. That’s why all the best players traditionally go on the PP1. So “helping the PP2” is meaningless, the best guy goes on PP1.

And Luke’s a rookie, not every pass will work, but Nemec would make the same number of screw ups or more with his passes. Nemec would give up significantly more breakaways. And Luke is a better shooter than Nemec.

Just a hard no to Nemec on PP1, particularly now, he’s hit the rookie wall hard while Luke has a second wind.

 

[MartyOwns]

Because Jack might not have wanted to give up on the season until he knew it was actually over. If he wanted to keep playing and he couldn't get injured more then what can you do if the player wants to play and you still have a chance?

People need to remember surgery is the players ultimate decision. It's not your body and you don't need to go through the surgery and then the rehab.

yeah but you can't let players determine when they're healthy enough to play, they're far too stupid for that kind of thing. hence concussion spotters. you're right that nobody can force a guy to have surgery, but they're in no position to set the lineups. if we're letting the inmates run the nuthouse this franchise is more f***ed than i ever could have imagined.

 

[Whaddagoal]

Because Jack might not have wanted to give up on the season until he knew it was actually over. If he wanted to keep playing and he couldn't get injured more then what can you do if the player wants to play and you still have a chance?

People need to remember surgery is the players ultimate decision. It's not your body and you don't need to go through the surgery and then the rehab.

Sure players choice, but the team doesn't have to clear him medically to play either. That is why there is a medical staff. He couldn't even take a faceoff. He wouldn't or couldn't take a hit. He avoided contact. And generally was poor finishing any plays for goals. Functionally not really healthy enough. Sure a crippled Jack is better than Tierney but it doesn't make it right to play him or allow him to play in that state.

Having your core important game flow (say PP1, 4v4), funnel through a gimped franchise player is a poor recipe for team success.

 

[NJDevs26]

While I find it difficult to blame the team when your star player tells you he can still play, I also find it difficult to absolve them from being adults when it's not like they hadn't already made one move toward waving the white flag by dealing Toffoli and Miller at the deadline anyway.

Shoulda gone all in on waving the white flag by shelving Jack right when you cashed out at the deadline so he wouldn't be going straight from shoulder rehab into camp, this way it feels like they tried to play it halfway and wanted to take advantage of the fact that 'people pay to see me play' to sell tickets for the remaining home games. It especially looks silly after he became hindered enough to not practice or take faceoffs at all.

 

[Devilsgrl35]

Sure players choice, but the team doesn't have to clear him medically to play either. That is why there is a medical staff. He couldn't even take a faceoff. He wouldn't or couldn't take a hit. He avoided contact. And generally was poor finishing any plays for goals. Functionally not really healthy enough. Sure a crippled Jack is better than Tierney but it doesn't make it right to play him or allow him to play in that state.

Having your core important game flow (say PP1, 4v4), funnel through a gimped franchise player is a poor recipe for team success.

I agree with what you said as well. I just don't think any other organization shuts their best player down when they can't injure themself further and you still have a mathematical shot. I even conceded as a fan at the Ranger game last week to shut Jack down. So in my view, a week later isn't far off. I don't think it ever was going to happen, in say, February.

I'm just trying to realistically see both sides here.

 

[Devs3cups]

 

[Bcap88]

I kind of can see both angles here:

Hard to shut down jack when they were at multiple different times 4 points out with a win putting them 2 points out. Considering how bad the other teams have played. I’m sure Jack wanted to will his way to playoffs

They also waived the white flag at the deadline so that was probably the time to shut it down as well

 

[New Jersey Devils]

Jacks an absolute competitor. Probably refused to get anything done until they were out for sure. Sure getting it done earlier would have been ideal but have to respect a guy for putting it all out there.