Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part IV

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Stephenson has been equally bad this year too defensively and that's coming from someone who still wants him in UFA. It's UFA, there's obviously going to be warts on any player, that's why they make it there. Bertuzzi probably isn't gonna sign for cheap anyway which is the scenario I'd want him anyway. If they go for Markstrom in a super cheap trade then go get Buch out of St Louis with the assets you saved with the goalie trade we thought would siphon all of our assets. Buch + Markstrom > Saros + UFA winger like Bertuzzi

 

[CalamityX23]

Not for nothing, if we end up tying some team for playoff spot point wise, we'd win tie breaker assuming we still have the Regulation wins adv. If I read that correctly.

 

[Devilsfan992]

1. I agree. Bahl and a first I would honestly be fine with... but if it takes less, great.

2. I am so done with having to staple Haula to Hughes. If by next year, Jack can't take faceoffs... or takes them and wins 40-45% then we have to face the reality that he's a left winger and look for a center for him (Lindholm?).

3. Those pairs are fine! I'm good either way lol.

Brady Tkachuk has a 53.5% faceoff win percentage this season .

 

[Clam Jensen]

I feel like he'll get a Palat deal, some young team will be eager to overpay him to come in and help establish culture. He would be an awesome fit here but I expect someone to back up the Brinks truck for his championship pedigree.

Completely reasonable point. A team will likely overpay that needs to feature him more vs being a depth piece for us.

 

[Lou Bloom]

I have a vision for next year's team and I know I am going to get yelled at for this and I do not care.


Bratt-Hischier-Meier
Bertuzzi-Hughes-Holtz
Palat-Haula-Mercer
Goote-Lazar-Bastian

MacDermid (yes, re-sign him to vet min), Halonen, Nosek? Extras

Hughes-Hamilton
Zadorov-Marino
Siegenthaler-Nemec

Markstrom
Allen


I think Tyler Bertuzzi and Nikita Zadorov would be great additions to this team. Bertuzzi is the kind of prick that can actually play hockey that we need. He's a UFA as is Zadorov.

Trade Bahl and a 1st for Markstrom.

I like this team a lot.

I don't get the Bertuzzi love. Apart from one outlier season two years ago he's been a middling player that's not good defensively, who's also injury prone.

Same with Zadorov, I don't get the fascination with making a move on defense. Kevin Bahl has been perfectly fine for a young defenseman tasked with playing a defense heavy role on a struggling team and Zadorov is going to get paid handsomely despite being a low impact player due to a shallow defense market in UFA. Paying Zadorov at minimum 4+ years at $4M+ per will immediately look bad.

And trading a 1st round pick + a promising young defenseman in Bahl for a 35 year old Markstrom at $6M is terrible value.

 

[NJDevs26]

the best torts criticism on here was “he’ll bench hughes for playing poorly” and “bratt will have to block shots!”. as if this team doesn’t need accountability or defensive sacrifices for our goalies’ benefit

wearing out his welcome is definitely a fair criticism though

Thing is, the more coaches (Lindy included) who never ultimately get through five years here, the less I care for the ‘wearing out his welcome’ criticism in general. As if head coaches who last 5-7+ years at one spot aren’t already the exception anyway. By the time Hynes was canned he had one of the longest tenures in the league lol, and he didn’t make it through five.

Lemaire 1.0 might be the only guy I can remember who even made it to the end of his fifth year here, and he left right after. Pete and Hynes were out during year #5.

Looks like I was right hah - granted maybe Burns would have beaten that if not for health but he didn’t have long tenures anywhere else either. Sutter was strangely being groomed as the next czar of the organization but he walked away after two disappointing playoff exits.

List of New Jersey Devils head coaches - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[JrFischer54]

Except they're not good hires in terms of the long term, they're cut from the same cloth as DeBoer, AV, etc. They're good for a bit because they provide your team a jolt of energy and then once they sag, it becomes really bad. It's the same shit with Lindy, you see improvements in areas where they were deficient under the previous coach and then once the roster hits a wall then it's too far gone. There's a reason why Lavi, in particular, has been to so many destinations in his NHL coaching career. The Rags got the same sort of bump under Gallant and look what happened in terms of long term result.

you can say that about any coach. theres a reason why no coach has spent a career behind one bench. lavi has 800 wins tortz 740 both with a cup so they are clearly doing something right. now if they aren't a good fit for the team? thats different but to say they not good hires long term? your hiring these guys to win now not be the coach 8-10 years from now

whoever the devils bring in probably wont be here in 5 years time

 

[glenwo2]

I have a vision for next year's team and I know I am going to get yelled at for this and I do not care.


Bratt-Hischier-Meier
Bertuzzi-Hughes-Holtz
Palat-Haula-Mercer
Goote-Lazar-Bastian

MacDermid (yes, re-sign him to vet min), Halonen, Nosek? Extras

Hughes-Hamilton
Zadorov-Marino
Siegenthaler-Nemec

Markstrom
Allen


I think Tyler Bertuzzi and Nikita Zadorov would be great additions to this team. Bertuzzi is the kind of prick that can actually play hockey that we need. He's a UFA as is Zadorov.

Trade Bahl and a 1st for Markstrom.

I like this team a lot.

who?

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

There aren’t many great high end UFA wing options, but there are some decent mid level players there. I expect a “top 6” guy coming via trade and then we add a Foegele, Joshua, or Trenin for a 3rd line role.

I will toot my own horn about Duclair tho. I wanted to give him a look here as a trial run before he hit free agency — 5 goals 4 assists +5 in 7 games out of that hellhole in SJ.

 

[NJDevs26]

He meant Foote lol

 

[JrFischer54]

Thing is, the more coaches (Lindy included) who never ultimately get through five years here, the less I care for the ‘wearing out his welcome’ criticism in general. As if head coaches who last 5-7+ years at one spot aren’t already the exception anyway. By the time Hynes was canned he had one of the longest tenures in the league lol, and he didn’t make it through five.

Lemaire 1.0 might be the only guy I can remember who even made it to the end of his fifth year here, and he left right after. Pete and Hynes were out during year #5.

Looks like I was right hah - granted maybe Burns would have beaten that if not for health but he didn’t have long tenures anywhere else either. Sutter was strangely being groomed as the next czar of the organization but he walked away after two disappointing playoff exits.

List of New Jersey Devils head coaches - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

i remember thinking something similar of sutter when he was brought in. wonder how that whole thing would've panned out if he was brought in at the end of lous time here

 

[Better Call Sal]

so your mocking his coaching record before the hire or your mocking the canucks for hiring him? either way seems pretty silly to me. esp if the majority of this board hates hiring retreads from the good old club.

Both. He hadn't shown any ounce of success in his first two head coaching stints and the organization embarrassed a more successful coach prior to his hire. What's silly about that?

Compared to Torts and Laviolette, Tocchet's resume is significantly worse. And the Canucks had not demonstrated any sense behind their decision making to receive the benefit of the doubt in bringing him in. Kudos to them for having a good season.

 

[My3Sons]

There aren’t many great high end UFA wing options, but there are some decent mid level players there. I expect a “top 6” guy coming via trade and then we add a Foegele, Joshua, or Trenin for a 3rd line role.

I will toot my own horn about Duclair tho. I wanted to give him a look here as a trial run before he hit free agency — 5 goals 4 assists +5 in 7 games out of that hellhole in SJ.

At forward, it's hard to see another trade for a top six guy unless it's a one year cap dump type trade. My guess is NJ will spend on the goalie but they hope that they can add some depth replacements at forward and on defense rather than spending big on those positions. A strong finish the last nine games might give them a false sense of security heading into next season. if they actually do sneak into the playoffs get ready for Travis Green's interim tag to be removed.

 

[AfroThunder396]

There aren’t many great high end UFA wing options, but there are some decent mid level players there. I expect a “top 6” guy coming via trade and then we add a Foegele, Joshua, or Trenin for a 3rd line role.

I will toot my own horn about Duclair tho. I wanted to give him a look here as a trial run before he hit free agency — 5 goals 4 assists +5 in 7 games out of that hellhole in SJ.

Ehhh, I think that's just Duclair. Best winger in the NHL for a two weeks every year, people wonder "why don't more people talk about this guy," and then fades away into nothing. Every team that gives him a contract ends up regretting it and eventually tries to get out from under that deal.

All the talent you want, but he's just not consistent and never has been.

 

[Bleedred]

so mock the good old boy retread hires and then mock the semi new hire who was meh in his first two tries.

again i dont know anything about coaches but going by this boards logic i certainly hope fitz doesn't think the same way



so your mocking his coaching record before the hire or your mocking the canucks for hiring him? either way seems pretty silly to me. esp if the majority of this board hates hiring retreads from the good old club.

How is Tocchet not also part of the old boys club? Because he hasn't been a head coach as long/for as many games as Laviolette and Torts? That might have something to do with the fact that Lavi and Torts both have success and make the playoffs more often than not, and both have won the cup as a head coach, even though it's been close to 20 years now. But they keep getting hired because they actually have success as head coaches.

Tocchet does not. He has one cup as an assistant for Pittsburgh in 16-17, which probably was a huge factor in him getting a head coaching job with Arizona.

He's coached over 500 games in the league now and is only just now getting his first legit playoffs berth. They technically made it in 19-20 when like 26 teams made it.

Covid robbed us of the exciting turtle race down the stretch of Tocchet's team vs Travis Green's, for what probably would have been the final playoff berth in the West. Everything shut down and both got in.

 

[Bleedred]

We changed the coach at the same time we changed the goalies. I’m not advocating for this to be the full time tandem next year but Fitz damn well better realize which change has actually had more positive impact.

I expect things may have become a little easier for the goalies since the deadline, but I doubt it's the difference between pre-Allen/Kahkonen and post-Allen/Kahkonen.

They've also been facing more shots than their predecessors, even if they're a little bit safer.

 

[Bleedred]

Bottom line, Green needs to be gone whether we go 8-1 or 1-8 to finish the season.

He doesn't have this team playing good hockey and is part of the problem.

Fitz needs to realize this or we are in trouble going forward.

I can't think he's coming back, unless it's back to associate/assistant coach again, like he was doing before Ruff got fired. That may be the best Fitz does for him if we finish out pretty good. We're still at dead NHL.500 since he took over, so a lot can happen in the final 9 games that could have us finishing with a not so great record. And I think we all know the team is not playing well at all. It's like when Nas took over and Blackwood had that stretch of goaltending that got the team a better record than Hynes before he got fired. And at this point right now, the team doesn't even have a better record/points percentage under him as they did under Ruff.

And for all the talk we heard about how the ''Analytics department has A LOT OF JUICE there'', which was a Friedman quote right after Shero was fired, if the analytics dpeartment really does have a lot of juice, you would think they would block Green having the interim tag removed, unless somehow we do get into the playoffs.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

At forward, it's hard to see another trade for a top six guy unless it's a one year cap dump type trade. My guess is NJ will spend on the goalie but they hope that they can add some depth replacements at forward and on defense rather than spending big on those positions. A strong finish the last nine games might give them a false sense of security heading into next season. if they actually do sneak into the playoffs get ready for Travis Green's interim tag to be removed.

I’m gonna guess it’s Holtz being moved for an established player — hopefully someone with some more control than Toffoli had. Let’s get nuts:

Holtz + 3rd for Yanni Gourde (50% retained). Sign Warren Foegele.

Haula-Hughes-Mercer
Timo-Nico-Bratt
Foegele-Gourde-Palat
Lazar-Nosek-Bastian

 

[Omar Little]

There aren’t many great high end UFA wing options, but there are some decent mid level players there. I expect a “top 6” guy coming via trade and then we add a Foegele, Joshua, or Trenin for a 3rd line role.

I will toot my own horn about Duclair tho. I wanted to give him a look here as a trial run before he hit free agency — 5 goals 4 assists +5 in 7 games out of that hellhole in SJ.

I don't think we need Top 6 forwards. We have 4 of 6 slots spoken for between Hughes, Hischier, Bratt, Meier and a cadre of other forwards who at any point in time can fit into the last two slots (Mercer, Palat, Haula, Holtz). We need another two middle six-ish (skewing 3rd line) utility man type players who are physical, good defensively, and prefer to take the body. Foegele, Trenin, Joshua are all good options. If we wanted a true top 6 forward I think you could see if you could pick someone up like Henrique on the cheap. I actually think he'd be a great fit with Hughes.

Bratt-Hischier-Meier
Henrique-Hughes-Mercer
Palat-Haula-Foegele
Trenin-Lazar-Bastian
Foote-McDermid

 

[Devils Trap]

I don't think we need Top 6 forwards. We have 4 of 6 slots spoken for between Hughes, Hischier, Bratt, Meier and a cadre of other forwards who at any point in time can fit into the last two slots (Mercer, Palat, Haula, Holtz). We need another two middle six-ish (skewing 3rd line) utility man type players who are physical, good defensively, and prefer to take the body. Foegele, Trenin, Joshua are all good options. If we wanted a true top 6 forward I think you could see if you could pick someone up like Henrique on the cheap. I actually think he'd be a great fit with Hughes.

Bratt-Hischier-Meier
Henrique-Hughes-Mercer
Palat-Haula-Foegele
Trenin-Lazar-Bastian
Foote-McDermid

Define Cheap. Henrique is not going to be cheap lol

I’m gonna guess it’s Holtz being moved for an established player — hopefully someone with some more control than Toffoli had. Let’s get nuts:

Holtz + 3rd for Yanni Gourde (50% retained). Sign Warren Foegele.

View attachment 842310

Haula-Hughes-Mercer
Timo-Nico-Bratt
Foegele-Gourde-Palat
Lazar-Nosek-Bastian

I would do ALOT of things to get Yanni Gourde here. Absolutely in love with him but I doubt SEA is moving him

 

[JrFischer54]

How is Tocchet not also part of the old boys club? Because he hasn't been a head coach as long/for as many games as Laviolette and Torts? That might have something to do with the fact that Lavi and Torts both have success and make the playoffs more often than not, and both have won the cup as a head coach, even though it's been close to 20 years now. But they keep getting hired because they actually have success as head coaches.

Tocchet does not. He has one cup as an assistant for Pittsburgh in 16-17, which probably was a huge factor in him getting a head coaching job with Arizona.

He's coached over 500 games in the league now and is only just now getting his first legit playoffs berth. They technically made it in 19-20 when like 26 teams made it.

Covid robbed us of the exciting turtle race down the stretch of Tocchet's team vs Travis Green's, for what probably would have been the final playoff berth in the West. Everything shut down and both got in.

so two teams make you a good old boys club member? this club is bigger then i expected

 

[JrFischer54]

Both. He hadn't shown any ounce of success in his first two head coaching stints and the organization embarrassed a more successful coach prior to his hire. What's silly about that?

Compared to Torts and Laviolette, Tocchet's resume is significantly worse. And the Canucks had not demonstrated any sense behind their decision making to receive the benefit of the doubt in bringing him in. Kudos to them for having a good season.

i get being against a coach that isn't good but if the shelf life of coaching career is 2 franchises (one is a joke franchise) and 450ish games to prove it or you dont deserve another gig? thats insane but hey each their own standard

i think this board has very limited criteria much like ufa/trade options in the coaching standards. going to be a banger on here when they eventually do hire someone thats for sure lol

 

[Mgd31]

Look for a top 6 LW/C combo via trade. Someone who can preferably skate and play defense.

Fill up the bottom 6 with UFAs who can do the same.

 

[Devils Trap]

Look for a top 6 LW/C combo via trade. Someone who can preferably skate and play defense.

Fill up the bottom 6 with UFAs who can do the same.

Buchnevich PLEASE ??

 

[Bleedred]

so two teams make you a good old boys club member? this club is bigger then i expected

What do you consider the old boys club? Someone that's had 5 head coaching jobs? Even someone like Claude Julien seems like he was around forever, but he's only even had 4 different head coaching stints. Two of them were with the same team and another one he didn't even make an entire 82 game season out of.

When you have the record Tocchet had after your first two jobs, you don't get a third too often.

Arizona is and has always been a joke and probably always will be, but even after his stint in Tampa they went from lottery team to conference finalist the year after they fired him.

Tocchet may not fall under ''Old boys club'', but he certainly had to be considered a retread by the time he got to Vancouver.