Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part IV

[JimEIV]

That's nice of you to spend that kind of money on your favorite player Jim.

It's still for sale. If I was going to get one it certainly wouldn't be the retro or a 3rd. Maybe the Christmas tree but that's as far as I would go

 

[NJDevs26]

Like I keep saying, fans are more obsessed with ''getting assets'' and players walking for ''nothing'' than front offices and teams are.

It's actually almost robotic and cliche at this point.

It’s one thing when it’s a star and you’re a borderline playoff team at best (Taveres) but when it’s a decent player and you have designs on a playoff run no, if we didn’t have that player we’d be trading other assets to get a facsimile

 

[tailfins]

If the prevailing wisdom is that NJ would need to trade Holtz, a 1st and another high-end prospect for Meier at the very least... is this alternative really too much? Blackwood is the organization's third (maybe?) best goalie. Severson is a UFA who likely will not be retained. And you get to keep your 1st in the deepest draft since 2003.

I dunno. Maybe you're right.

The issue with trading Blackwood and/or Severson is that they are important depth pieces who could be critical for a long playoff run.

You trade either / both if you're focused on
- future years vs this year
- getting out the first round vs winning future rounds

I think the Devils can come out of the Metro this year. I think the Devils should be organizing around this goal. Over three playoff rounds, players get banged up. The likelihood that Severson or Blackwood need to step up is high. So, they're too important IMO to move - almost regardless of return.

In terms of getting out of the first round, I think the Devils have enough as is to beat anyone. If you feel the Devils are missing a specific element (e.g., physicality), then I think it's sensible to prioritize getting that. But, most of the teams you'll be buying from would prefer futures, so I'm not sure that trading Sevs or Blackwood is required. And see above for why I'd prefer to keep them over a pick or prospect.

One last thing to consider, IMO, is future cap / team structure. Meaning, if you trade Severson and Blackwood so you can avoid trading Sharangovich, where does Sharangovich fit on the team? I haven't gone down this path, so that's a genuine question. Can the Devils afford him in the role he'll be playing? Or will the Devils need to move him similar to what happened with Zacha. In a vacuum, I don't think anyone wants to trade a 25 year old somewhat productive LW / C for 31 year old try-hard LW / C. But, in reality, I don't think the team wanted to pay Zacha's market price given what he brought to the lineup / where he was going to slot. So, the Devils are better off with the lesser, cheaper player given their structure. Bringing that back to your proposal, if you trade Severson and Blackwood, to keep Sharangovich, but then create a situation where Sharangovich is underutilized and you need to trade him soon anyway, what was the point?

 

[Rhodes 81]

A lot of people in 2012 wanted us to trade Parise at the deadline so he didn't walk for nothing. IMO it was CLEARLY the right move to keep him. He wasn't amazing in the playoffs, but he was our captain and scored some big goals in the NYR series.

Whatever late first and two prospects we would have gotten for him would absolutely have not been worth as much as a Stanley Cup Finals run. Severson is not the same player Parise is but he is still a very important piece to this defense. If you deal him then you're one sketchy hit away from Brendan Smith in the the top-4 and two rookies on defense.

People need to come around to seeing Graves and Severson as rentals. Instead of paying our own 2nd round picks and B prospects we could get for them, we're trading the 2nds and prospects we could have gotten for them instead. That's worth it to give your team a chance to make a run.

thinkin about this now...


utica fans are hardcore, aren't they @Bad Goalie @UticaHockey and anyone else i missed

When you are a fan of minor league teams, you see the "best" players come through for half a year, maybe a full year, just waiting for their callup. Guys like Geertsen play hard, play with passion, and may stick around for a couple years sometimes. And they aren't quite as bad as they look in the NHL. It's easy to see why they gravitate to those players.

 

[Devils090]

After four years in South Florida, I can tell you there's nothing older rich dudes love more than getting hammered and driving golf carts to places they can clearly walk.

Go to Key Biscayne, nobody drives cars there. It's all 60+ white dudes driving golf carts on the street. They drop their wife off at spin class then drive three blocks over to the Publix parking lot and feed seagulls for a couple of hours while waiting for their tee time. The entire community is basically a free range adult day care.

Sounds incredibly based

 

[forceten]

I am surprised nobody has pointed out that, relating to the fans decrying losing picks and assets here, that this is Hockey's Future after all

 

[Ripshot 43]

people with no ragrets

Not even 1?

 

[Goptor]

I think you guys are undervaluing Severson at 75% retention.
Send down your 23rd roster spot player to the minors and you've essentially fit him in cap-wise

He's also far more valuable to other teams than NJ since he doesn't really have a role here when Hamilton/Marino are healthy.

 

[SJinNewJersey]

When should we start getting concerned Bratt hasn't signed?

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

I think you guys are undervaluing Severson at 75% retention.
Send down your 23rd roster spot player to the minors and you've essentially fit him in cap-wise

He's also far more valuable to other teams than NJ since he doesn't really have a role here when Hamilton/Marino are healthy.

sure he does, playing right defense for the New Jersey Devils

 

[KovalchukFistPump]

A lot of people in 2012 wanted us to trade Parise at the deadline so he didn't walk for nothing. IMO it was CLEARLY the right move to keep him. He wasn't amazing in the playoffs, but he was our captain and scored some big goals in the NYR series.

Whatever late first and two prospects we would have gotten for him would absolutely have not been worth as much as a Stanley Cup Finals run. Severson is not the same player Parise is but he is still a very important piece to this defense. If you deal him then you're one sketchy hit away from Brendan Smith in the the top-4 and two rookies on defense.

I don’t remember this as being the sentiment at all. Maybe one or two people that were immediately laughed at. Team was playing well and we were focused on trading for a PMD (ended up being Zidlicky). Plus there was the hope that we’d be able to resign Parise to a non-clown contract.

 

[Monsieur Verdoux]

This is just stupid. No way the Devils would make that trade.

"The proposal: Devils receive David Perron; Red Wings receive Alexander Holtz — Paul N.

The verdict: Detroit says no … but should they?

Holtz’s NHL transition hasn’t gone as smoothly as hoped for in New Jersey, meanwhile, Perron has been quite good in Detroit. The veteran forward is on a good contract with another year remaining, knows what it takes to win a Stanley Cup and plays a hard but savvy game. He’d be a fantastic addition for the Devils — though it would take some cap finagling to make it work.

The thing is, the Red Wings signed Perron for all those reasons too — and while they aren’t in the same position New Jersey is to take advantage in the postseason, Perron’s a big culture piece for the team on top of being one of their top goal scorers. I’m not so sure they’d be willing to move on in favor of a young player getting a fresh start — albeit a very talented one.

That said, I think you can make a strong argument for doing so. Holtz’s four points in 18 NHL games this season are symbolic of his rocky transition, and why the Devils could opt to move him, but his AHL numbers have still been quite strong. If the Red Wings believe in the talent that got Holtz picked at No. 7 in 2020, then making a play for him now could pay dividends down the line. Reuniting Lucas Raymond with his old “Terror Twin” would be a bonus — and would add another player in that age range to the picture for Detroit.

Still, the Red Wings signed Perron for a reason, and I’m skeptical that reason was to trade him after 60 games. And Perron could say “no” too — he has a modified no-trade clause that allows him a 10-team no-trade list."

From the comments section:

"Max Bultman· 1h 41m ago STAFF
One of our national writers who has the Devils as part of her coverage listed Holtz as the most likely player or piece for NJ to trade this deadline… top 6 30 goal winger with an extra year of term? I think that’s about right."

Who says no? Analyzing your Red Wings trade proposals

Red Wings beat writer Max Bultman analyzes reader trade suggestions to answer the age-old question: who says no?

theathletic.com

 

[bossram]

This good guys? 3rd overall.

Also what a gauntlet the East is. The top 5 teams. COL is going to hang around in a Wild Card spot, get healthy, and laugh their way to the Final.

 

[JimEIV]

When should we start getting concerned Bratt hasn't signed?

Not at all. He's still going to be a RFA... I'm more afraid of another 1 year deal

 

[forceten]

Hurricanes are on another f***ing heater.

 

[Nubmer6]

Hurricanes are on another f***ing heater.

Is "heater" something that's been around or is is something Hughes came up with? I've never heard it used like that until his interview. Now it's all over.

 

[R8Devs]

lol at even suggesting that trade and even worse saying that Detroit says no instead of writing the Devils would never even offer that.

Perron's also on pace for 23 goals this year and has been pace for 30 goals a couple of times in his career but never got to that mark, seems a bit rich to say that is something expected out of him especially at 34.

 

[njdevil26]

When should we start getting concerned Bratt hasn't signed?

Worried? No. Annoyed? Yes. I am wondering if Bratt not signing holds other moves up because Fitz is going to want to know what kind of cap space he's working with next year.

Although I also wonder if they earmark a number they consider "couldn't possibly be more than this right?" and then operate under that number. But I honestly thought Bratt was going to sign on Jan 1. If he's not signed closer to the deadline, I may get worried.

We heard reports they were talking in December... I really wish I knew what the holdup was.

 

[Triumph]

I think you guys are undervaluing Severson at 75% retention.
Send down your 23rd roster spot player to the minors and you've essentially fit him in cap-wise

He's also far more valuable to other teams than NJ since he doesn't really have a role here when Hamilton/Marino are healthy.

There's no such thing, so that could be why we're undervaluing it. The maximum retention is fifty percent.

 

[forceten]

Is "heater" something that's been around or is is something Hughes came up with? I've never heard it used like that until his interview. Now it's all over.

I don't know! Good question actually.

 

[Nubmer6]

There's no such thing, so that could be why we're undervaluing it. The maximum retention is fifty percent.

You can hit 75% with a 3rd team involved

 

[JimEIV]

Is "heater" something that's been around or is is something Hughes came up with? I've never heard it used like that until his interview. Now it's all over.

Every time I hear it I get annoyed. Admittedly I'm easily annoyed.

And the strange usage of "Let's go" as a random response is even worse.

Last week I told a young friend that I tied him a dozen flies that he wanted...his response was "let's go"...it pissed me off for some unbeknownst reason.

I told him thank you would suffice douche.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Perron is still pretty damn good, but I’m not trading Holtz for him.

 

[Nubmer6]

Every time I hear I get annoyed. Admittedly I'm easily annoyed.

We would never have known if you didn't tell us that

 

[HBK27]

I think you guys are undervaluing Severson at 75% retention.
Send down your 23rd roster spot player to the minors and you've essentially fit him in cap-wise

He's also far more valuable to other teams than NJ since he doesn't really have a role here when Hamilton/Marino are healthy.

What are you even talking about with 75% retention? Max you can go is 50% - so do you mean adding another team into the deal?

Who is our 3rd pairing defense heading into the playoffs then as well as the backups for when injuries inevitably strike? Retaining more than $2M of dead salary for a team that's already right up against the cap doesn't help things either.

And what type of a message does it send to the team that's worked its ass off to get the 3rd best record in the league? I mean, Lou traded for the top pending UFA on the market despite being out of the playoffs because he believes anything can happen in the playoffs (and he's right - NJ's 2012 Cup run as a 6th seed versus the Kings as an 8th seed is one of many examples)...but Fitz should just be like "Naaahhh....it's not your year guys, so I'm going to sell"? Not to mention that it's a complete kick in the balls for the longest tenured Devil that's been a f***ing trooper through some very lean years with this franchise.

What type of miraculous return do you think we're going to get for Severson that justifies sabotaging our playoff run this season? I guess already having the top prospect pool and all our upcoming picks (except this year's 3rd rounder - gladly given up with Smith to land Marino) somehow isn't enough and we need to add another late 1st rounder? Which team is going to pay a boatload for him? And it better damn well at least be out West.

Devils have a damn good shot of having a long playoff run, as any team 3rd in league standings would - especially if we land Meier, which is more than possible. We'll be favored in round 1, Carolina would be tough but beatable and it's going to be a bloodbath between Boston, Toronto and Tampa out in the Atlantic. If you have serious aspirations, you need depth - particularly on defense. You really want to be an injury away from Smith getting top 4 minutes? Or rely on a pair of rookies on the 3rd pairing?

I get the attraction of wanting assets back for Severson - and maybe that might make some sense if we were just sneaking into the playoffs, but with where we're at now it's a piss poor idea that I don't think Fitz is remotely entertaining.