It would be pretty funny if we didn’t even notice the season started because we’re working through our various beefs.
Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason part III
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It would be pretty funny if we didn’t even notice the season started because we’re working through our various beefs.
Better Call Sal
Salnalysis
No, I'm not confused. I'm attempting to boil this discussion down to what is actually relevant because it's been ongoing for months. I'm not going to get into his playing time with you again, because you have firmly put yourself on that hill no matter how incorrect. That's your choice. I spent enough time diving into that with you months ago, as have others in the offseason. You just don't want to hear it, so why spill more ink on that topic?
If anyone has their panties in a bunch, it appears to be you about how you feel Mercer was treated this season and what his next contract will be. I'm sorry if you feel that he has somehow gotten shortchanged on this contract here, but I'm not going to simply overlook the fact that he was not good last year. You seem content with chalking it up to his linemates being the problem, well he's got this year to prove that to be true under a new coach. It doesn't change the fact that he is knocked off pucks more easily than one would like, loses battles more often than one would like and doesn't get enough shots to the net. He had the highest shooting percentage of any regular player on the team (no I don't count Chris Tierney) but was 8th on the team in shots. It's the least amount of shots he's had in any of his 3 seasons in the league. If he was more willing and/or able to get pucks on net, I guarantee he'd probably be back alongside Jack and Nico.
So much of last year can be explained quite simply by it being a down year in almost every facet for almost everyone. That goes for coaching, as well. And maybe deep down, that's what you're trying to get at. But instead you'd rather spin it into conspiracy theory land that his lineup placement was done purposefully to make his next contract less costly. Never mind the fact that we had to spend more money this summer anyway in areas that were sorely needed to improve the team on the blueline and in goal. If that meant in the end that we'd have to kick the can down the road for Dawson to get something longer term in a year or two, then so be it. I love Dawson as a player and want him to be here long-term. I think he will return closer to what his sophomore season was, and am excited at the prospect of him playing under Keefe. He'll have every opportunity to prove last season was an outlier.
Rhetorical or not, rookies report Wednesday.
I'm looking forward to overreacting to preseason lines.
Better Call Sal
Salnalysis
JimEIV
Registered User
- Feb 19, 2003
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On
Again, even in that long wordy post there seems to be a significant disconnect here between what you are saying and what I am saying.
Let's for a moment go with your version...lets say you are 100% spot on... Mercer wasn't effected by linemates, a bad year and bad team...it was just down year for him and he needs to improve before he "earns" a long term lucrative deal.
One year should do it right?
Is one year enough to "prove it". Then it would be 3 out of 4 good years making last year a fluke.
Why in the world should he have to "prove it" for 3 years? Or even two for that matter when he's been very good for 2 of the last 3 years....
You keep whittling this down and it becomes glaringly apparent that performance has nothing at all to with this conversation and it is completely a cap management exercise....this is what I am saying.
In July of 2022 Jesper could've been signed to a long term deal at or less than 7.
No, I'm not confused. I'm attempting to boil this discussion down to what is actually relevant because it's been ongoing for months. I'm not going to get into his playing time with you again, because you have firmly put yourself on that hill no matter how incorrect. That's your choice. I spent enough time diving into that with you months ago, as have others in the offseason. You just don't want to hear it, so why spill more ink on that topic?
If anyone has their panties in a bunch, it appears to be you about how you feel Mercer was treated this season and what his next contract will be. I'm sorry if you feel that he has somehow gotten shortchanged on this contract here, but I'm not going to simply overlook the fact that he was not good last year. You seem content with chalking it up to his linemates being the problem, well he's got this year to prove that to be true under a new coach. It doesn't change the fact that he is knocked off pucks more easily than one would like, loses battles more often than one would like and doesn't get enough shots to the net. He had the highest shooting percentage of any regular player on the team (no I don't count Chris Tierney) but was 8th on the team in shots. It's the least amount of shots he's had in any of his 3 seasons in the league. If he was more willing and/or able to get pucks on net, I guarantee he'd probably be back alongside Jack and Nico.
So much of last year can be explained quite simply by it being a down year in almost every facet for almost everyone. That goes for coaching, as well. And maybe deep down, that's what you're trying to get at. But instead you'd rather spin it into conspiracy theory land that his lineup placement was done purposefully to make his next contract less costly. Never mind the fact that we had to spend more money this summer anyway in areas that were sorely needed to improve the team on the blueline and in goal. If that meant in the end that we'd have to kick the can down the road for Dawson to get something longer term in a year or two, then so be it. I love Dawson as a player and want him to be here long-term. I think he will return closer to what his sophomore season was, and am excited at the prospect of him playing under Keefe. He'll have every opportunity to prove last season was an outlier.
Rhetorical or not, rookies report Wednesday.
Again, even in that long wordy post there seems to be a significant disconnect here between what you are saying and what I am saying.
Let's for a moment go with your version...lets say you are 100% spot on... Mercer wasn't effected by linemates, a bad year and bad team...it was just down year for him and he needs to improve before he "earns" a long term lucrative deal.
One year should do it right?
Is one year enough to "prove it". Then it would be 3 out of 4 good years making last year a fluke.
Why in the world should he have to "prove it" for 3 years? Or even two for that matter when he's been very good for 2 of the last 3 years....
You keep whittling this down and it becomes glaringly apparent that performance has nothing at all to with this conversation and it is completely a cap management exercise....this is what I am saying.
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None Shall Pass
Dano moisturizes
I just checked and we're already down 1-0
Better Call Sal
Salnalysis
How does performance have nothing to do with it when his most recent season was his worst one? That should be overlooked? The time to do a long-term extension was last offseason. Fitz indicated he would have liked to do that. Who knows why it didn't, I'm sure you have your thoughts, but it didn't happen.
It's great that you feel last year shouldn't hold any weight, but it does. And the team opted this offseason to take care of other priorities to round out the roster. Since he is an RFA, he was handled last simply because he's still under team control. Yes, that limits what could realistically be done, but they could still sign him to a higher cap hit than what's available and move out someone like Bastian to create more space if they desired. I believe they still have time to be over the cap by a certain percent, but I could be wrong.
It also could benefit Mercer to come in off the down season into a fresh scenario and hopefully return to form. I simply think this narrative that he was treated unfairly between his usage, his linemates and how this summer has played out is offbase. Get the max he can for this one year, and revisit long-term talks based on how the season goes.
JimEIV
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- Feb 19, 2003
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None of what has happened in the last year up to now had been good for Mercer.
He has been treated unfairly and they are trying to use his contract as a price control.
When they signed Tatar everyone in the universe should have known Mercer was going to get f***ed.
They will get rid of Bastian and Haula for Luke's deal...and a cheap Mercer is necessary to make it happen. Performance has nothing at all to do with this equation.
Bratt on his current deal is one of the 15 best star level contracts in the league.
“We could have had him for a (mythical) 6.5M deal” is just greedy.
Better Call Sal
Salnalysis
No idea what this is responding to but yeah, while the Devils could've signed him to a long-ish term deal after 2020 where he would be paid something like high 4s, low 5s, that deal would just be ending after this season, and Bratt would be due $10M per.
Zajacs Bowl Cut
Lets Go Baby
You have yet to substantiate this with any facts. Please stop stating it as a fact.
AfroThunder396
[citation needed]
If Dawson Mercer loses his spot to Tomas Tatar and Stefan Noesen then he has no one to blame but himself.
SteveCangialosi123
Registered User
He’ll get bridged and we’ll have a better idea of what he is when his next deal is up. There isn’t that much else to it.
Even if we were completely able to fit a long term deal under the cap, I may balk at the idea if I was Fitz. He sucked last year. It’s entirely possible that we end up paying him more in the future as a result of bridging him. It’s also possible that we dodge a bullet if he plays like he did last year. That’s not a 6+ million dollar player.
Even if we were completely able to fit a long term deal under the cap, I may balk at the idea if I was Fitz. He sucked last year. It’s entirely possible that we end up paying him more in the future as a result of bridging him. It’s also possible that we dodge a bullet if he plays like he did last year. That’s not a 6+ million dollar player.
It’s a real shame Mercer struggled so much at center last year, he had a real opportunity to fill the void left by McLeod’s embarrassment of a departure.
He also wouldve dramatically increased his value if he could’ve proved to be more than a complimentary winger. May have been a tough ask with how dysfunctional the team was last year, but that didn’t stop every other skilled player in the lineup from going through at least one hot streak. Mercer’s gotta look in the mirror and ask what kinda player he wants to be.
He also wouldve dramatically increased his value if he could’ve proved to be more than a complimentary winger. May have been a tough ask with how dysfunctional the team was last year, but that didn’t stop every other skilled player in the lineup from going through at least one hot streak. Mercer’s gotta look in the mirror and ask what kinda player he wants to be.
Some of this stuff is a pro scouting issue. A number of posters here supported Bratt during his first few seasons and would have advocated for a long term deal coming off his ELC. NJ just didn’t see it that way but Bratt lived up to what many here saw. I think Mercer is in the same sort of boat. He’s unlikely to be a star but he’s a good NHL player. Unless there is some effort issue behind the scenes which I doubt he’s already shown he can be very effective. He is quite young and still improving. I think last season was an aberration and he improves over the next couple of years to be the 30 goal two way wing we want him to be. Maybe NJ sees it differently maybe they have some limit onRFA winger contracts but to me this is a bit of a missed opportunity. Not because of any conspiracy but just because if you trust your evaluations you can’t hesitate and hedge on them.
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A tough task for sure. But he was babied through it and spoon fed opportunities that he botched worse than Holtz who many here crucified. A younger, less experienced player didn't get the benefit of the doubt. Why should Mercer?
I like Mercer, but I don't love him as much as many here seem to.
What I saw in Bratt, even early on, was someone who made the players around him better. No matter what line he was on, even on the 3rd, that line would seem to be the top scoring line in many games.
With Mercer, I see someone who can succeed if he's put in the right situation with the right linemates. To me, he's not in the same tier and isn't a core player, just a good complimentary one. He's not someone I'd lock up for 8 years unless the price was right.
Billdo
Registered User
If they're deserving of 15-16 combined that means Hamilton will have taken a pronounced backseat. Pay the draft pick cost to move him and that frees up some of the money to pay Mercer a fair market value. We will have contracts that will be coming off the books and hopefully younger players on ELCs to round out the roster.
JimEIV
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I'm getting electric stim and ice right now at the PT...so I don't have to much time but these are all organizational perspectives... that's great, there are a ton solutions to screw Mercer right now to pay other players first. It's obvious it was the plan all along ...
What'll really be a hoot is if Luke has a bit of down year or slow start to see how the perspective of "down year" / "prove yourself" changes. I don't wish it on him but the spin from the organization as well as this board would be pure gold to watch.
I’m guessing the NJ brass agrees with you. I get that. I’m rooting for him and more or less see him like you but with enough eventual upside to be a core adjacent guy. I’d give him 8 now if he’d take the price a of a sixty point guy. Not sure he’d be willing to do that but that’s what would make sense to me.
Billdo
Registered User
JimEIV
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Better Call Sal
Salnalysis
A pretty apples and oranges comparison of a defender who lead the team in ATOI as a 20 year-old vs. a complementary goal scoring winger. I imagine a team would prioritize locking up the defender long-term at the more important position.
Hopefully we don't have to find out either way, but thanks for putting the bad Luke vibes out there in the universe.
Yeah, my feeling is that Palat and Dougie will be looked at being moved sooner than later. Palat's deal becomes a 10 team trade list next year, who knows how easy it will be to move him if he has another poor production season but we've seen teams get out of enough contracts in the past that I don't think it's impossible.
I just hope Dougie can be healthy this year. It's a shame he's had the injury luck that he's had here in years 1 and 3 because we've seen what having him in the lineup for a full season does.
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