Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason part III

[Goptor]

Failed to sign Tom Brady and people are looking to get DeMarcus Cousins on a PTO.

To top it all off, Mike Trout isn't considered a #1 defenseman here because he's injured again.

 

[HBK27]

You're not concerned that the Devils once again go into the season with no true #1 defenseman?

Would have thought that would've been the top priority. Seems like for the most part they've shuffled the deck chairs on the Titanic. While spending more money to do so.

Wait, are you really going to try to drag Fitz for not getting a "true #1 defenseman" despite having Hamilton, plus Luke and Nemec coming off their rookie seasons?

For shits and giggles, how about you enlighten all of us with who you would've gotten and at what cost. Can't wait to hear this brilliance.

 

[MadDevil]

This will probably end in a train wreck but...

https://x.com/i/web/status/1820813588572803315

For those without a sub the Devils are #7, down from #1 a year ago.

 

[Hockey Sports Fan]

The disparity in the drafting and developing confidence is interesting. I wonder how much is the rest of the league still viewing Bratt/Hischier/Hughes as young up-and-comers, where as to us they feel like 10 year veterans (Hischier’s about to start his 8th season ).

 

[Devils731]

The disparity in the drafting and developing confidence is interesting. I wonder how much is the rest of the league still viewing Bratt/Hischier/Hughes as young up-and-comers, where as to us they feel like 10 year veterans (Hischier’s about to start his 8th season ).

I think another part is Luke and Nemec coming into a team that was a train wreck last season so people who were thinking “high draft pick should dominate from day 1” are now wary that they’re both not as good as advertised.

I think you see this about around the Internet, that Luke can’t play any defense and Nemec isn’t Wright. Things that, for me, seem odd to think after watching them play.

 

[Hockey Sports Fan]

I think another part is Luke and Nemec coming into a team that was a train wreck last season so people who were thinking “high draft pick should dominate from day 1” are now wary that they’re both not as good as advertised.

I think you see this about around the Internet, that Luke can’t play any defense and Nemec isn’t Wright. Things that, for me, seem odd to think after watching them play.

i dont think anyone’s thinking that second thing. All the sentiments ive seen around Shane Wright are pretty negative, mostly based around the fact that he couldnt stick with the Kraken OR hit a ppg pace in the AHL last season.

 

[Oneiro]

From all of Fitz’s tenure, I don’t think we will be surprised by any skater from round 3 onward at all. It has been Lou-esque. What has it been, just Vilen and Filmon showing a bit of promise?

I just can’t get behind all the low ceiling big boy picks. I want to see a major change in the philosophy there. Think of it in terms of trade capital and not roster fit. Why take a low percentage shot when the best of these kinds of players get filtered out at the NHL levels and can be traded for with Shara, Grits, Bratt-type picks?

 

[Devils731]

i dont think anyone’s thinking that second thing. All the sentiments ive seen around Shane Wright are pretty negative, mostly based around the fact that he couldnt stick with the Kraken OR hit a ppg pace in the AHL last season.

Oh no, definitely scour the hot takes comments on Facebook and you’ll find the people who don’t follow hockey that much but know Wright should have been taken over Nemec and they won’t change their mind until the Devils both win and Nemec is an all-star.

Wright doesn’t actually matter, it’s just they know he was ranked high once and the Devils passed on him and lost last season. They know almost all Devils moves are wrong, proven by losing, so Nemec was the wrong choice and Wright should have been taken.

 

[Goptor]

The disparity in the drafting and developing confidence is interesting. I wonder how much is the rest of the league still viewing Bratt/Hischier/Hughes as young up-and-comers, where as to us they feel like 10 year veterans (Hischier’s about to start his 8th season ).

A lot of the later round picks that developed and became the backbone of the playoff team 2 years ago was from Shero.

Public probably doesn't care who did the work, Just that it was done.
Fans understand the difference between Shero and Fitz with their drafting strategies.

 

[Devils731]

From all of Fitz’s tenure, I don’t think we will be surprised by any skater from round 3 onward at all. It has been Lou-esque. What has it been, just Vilen and Filmon showing a bit of promise?

I just can’t get behind all the low ceiling big boy picks. I want to see a major change in the philosophy there. Think of it in terms of trade capital and not roster fit. Why take a low percentage shot when the best of these kinds of players get filtered out at the NHL levels and can be traded for with Shara, Grits, Bratt-type picks?

I’m not generally against what you’re saying but I think it’s also overstated.

The last statement makes it seem like it’s easy to find valuable scoring wingers late in the draft, rather than the Devils got lucky a few times. You can get lucky and surprised with types of players other than scoring wingers too.

Maybe they got lucky with Cam Squires or Orlov? Who knows yet.

Even if the Devils only ended up with Filmon and Vilen becoming more just a guy then that would be pretty awesome late round drafting over the last 4 years.

 

[theoptimist]

I was fine with it until the Fletcher thing happened. Just really soured my opinion on him. I don't care if he ends up being a nothing, he shouldn't even have been hired, period.

I know nothing about Fletcher, however I know he was hired, has a seat at the table, and is now a decision maker. Every hire matters.

As an example, Fitz has been with the Devils for a little less than 10 years and has always been a decision-maker. He shares responsibility for every up and down we can remember since 2015.

Devils don't make the playoffs this year, both him and Fletcher will be gone.

 

[Call Me Al]

he’s not a decision maker though, he’s an advisor. for all we know this is a ceremonial role that he’s just helping fitz to bounce ideas off of. i mean. fletcher sucks but fitz is the decision maker and the freaking out over this is comically extreme

 

[NJDevs26]

I mean if Fitz does listen to Fletcher over his other advisors and his own thoughts than he’s just as dumb as Fletcher anyway

 

[MasterofGrond]

Id really hate to see folks if Fitz actually f***ed up something that matters lmao

And besides, if Fletcher is as incompetent as some of you think, maybe Fitz will use him like Jim Cramer

 

[Triumph]

I’m not generally against what you’re saying but I think it’s also overstated.

The last statement makes it seem like it’s easy to find valuable scoring wingers late in the draft, rather than the Devils got lucky a few times. You can get lucky and surprised with types of players other than scoring wingers too.

Maybe they got lucky with Cam Squires or Orlov? Who knows yet.

Even if the Devils only ended up with Filmon and Vilen becoming more just a guy then that would be pretty awesome late round drafting over the last 4 years.

It's overstated, I agree, but I've always thought the measure of success for the late rounds is picking guys who have pro careers in second-tier leagues and the Devils really aren't doing great in that area lately. There's too many picks that just don't seem to have much of a future, that are huge longshots right away. I will say that they seem to be doing reasonably well with defensemen, and defensemen are both harder to evaluate and there's fewer spots for them. So, I also think some of it is driven by the fact that they've just stopped drafting centers, for whatever reason, and the position is an organizational wasteland that they haven't seen to address in any other fashion.

 

[ThePrideofStockholm]

How much do you guys pay for a season ticket with good view? And Trout as a last name is the best in the world

 

[None Shall Pass]

Seeing what happened with Holtz and maybe even Schmid/Daws could have had an impact on the Draft / Develop section for people answering the survey as well.

There's a valid argument that Holtz was mishandled - not sure I'd agree with it, but the argument could definitely be made.

 

[Devils731]

There's a valid argument that Holtz was mishandled - not sure I'd agree with it, but the argument could definitely be made.

I think it’s hard not to say Holtz was mishandled, even if you think he isn’t an NHL player.

He played 33 games as a 20-21 year old while being basically healthy the entire season. I don’t think anyone has that as a good development choice for any player. Even management admitted it wasn’t ideal in retrospect.

For me, it’s pretty hard to argue 2 seasons ago was wasn’t a bad way to handle any young player. Games played is pretty concrete and doesn’t even get into the items that go more towards qualitative arguments.

 

[Devils731]

It's overstated, I agree, but I've always thought the measure of success for the late rounds is picking guys who have pro careers in second-tier leagues and the Devils really aren't doing great in that area lately.

I think there can be interesting discussion on if that’s a helpful measuring stick for late round picks.

All these late round picks are total crapshoots so the only thing that truly matters, NHL impact, is so rare that measuring results is extremely difficult.

Does a player carving out a career as a third liner in the Swedish Hockey league make them having been a better shot at the draft than a guy who became an accountant? Probably, but the team ended up with nothing worthwhile either way.

If my late round picks are all boom or bust then does it matter that some bust slightly less than others?

I do think the Devils have been limiting their “boom” potential by taking guys who are low offense but they may not be limiting their number of guys providing NHL benefit that much; tough to tell in the short term.

———————

I personally agree the Devils should take the big boom chance at offensive guys with flaws late in the draft but want to provide some Devils Advocacy on how I see the other side of the coin.

 

[Bleedred]

This will probably end in a train wreck but...

https://x.com/i/web/status/1820813588572803315

For those without a sub the Devils are #7, down from #1 a year ago.

View attachment 899379

When you said trainwreck I was expecting it to have plummeted from 1st to like 15th or lower haha.

I think 7th is still fine. I honestly think we lost some stock because of missing the playoffs and a supremely disappointing year to follow up the monster season in 22-23. And I think our outburst onto the scene in 22-23 may have even had a lot to do with shooting us up to first, though I do think we were still in the top-10 on this in the 2022 offseason.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

This will probably end in a train wreck but...

https://x.com/i/web/status/1820813588572803315

For those without a sub the Devils are #7, down from #1 a year ago.

View attachment 899379

what is public and what time period is this for? There's no way trading is worse than draft/developing. Draft/developing under Fitz so far has not been promising.

I know nothing about Fletcher

welll...

 

[Nubmer6]

what is public and what time period is this for?

Public is fans of other teams. The poll was this week, and is current confidence in the front office of each team.

 

[theoptimist]

He was never mishandled. He's just not good. Parise played on the fourth line.

 

[NJDevs26]

He was never mishandled. He's just not good. Parise played on the fourth line.

For 82 games in a season at barely ten minutes a night?

And even that was probably better than basically giving him a college-level season two years ago (barely thirty games).

 

[tailfins]

I think there can be interesting discussion on if that’s a helpful measuring stick for late round picks.

All these late round picks are total crapshoots so the only thing that truly matters, NHL impact, is so rare that measuring results is extremely difficult.

Does a player carving out a career as a third liner in the Swedish Hockey league make them having been a better shot at the draft than a guy who became an accountant? Probably, but the team ended up with nothing worthwhile either way.

If my late round picks are all boom or bust then does it matter that some bust slightly less than others?

I do think the Devils have been limiting their “boom” potential by taking guys who are low offense but they may not be limiting their number of guys providing NHL benefit that much; tough to tell in the short term.

———————

I personally agree the Devils should take the big boom chance at offensive guys with flaws late in the draft but want to provide some Devils Advocacy on how I see the other side of the coin.

The issue to me is that Devils hopefully are graduating from picking top 10 in the draft and as such need to figure out an approach to the draft that will keep the team stocked.

They probably can't find another Hughes (Jack or Luke), but even outside of Kucherov, Tampa managed to find Point, Cirelli, and Colton outside the first round. Dallas has pulled multiple top players after pick 20.

I don't care as much about finding unheralded players in deep rounds as I do about hitting on some sort of picks. And I actually think Fitz has done well with late firsts and second round picks (when the Devils have had them). Stillman is a terrible pick, but then you've got Mercer, Mukhamadullin, Casey, Hameenaho. That seems pretty good.

If Fitz can keep drafting like that, I like the Devils chances to extend their window.