Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason part III

[njdevils1982]

I saw there was a Mighty Ducks revival type of thing like Cobra Kai, where the Gordon Bombay character is back. So I guess Emilio Estevez has something to do again.

what's his brother carlos estevez and father ramón up to these days?

 

[Triumph]

Mercer just had 33 pts while putting up some of the worst underlyings on the team. Fitz played the hardest hardball on Bratt coming off his ELC and only gave him 2.75x2 and he was a better player.

Bratt has paid the drafted in the sixth round tax his whole career. Mercer will not be doing that.

 

[britdevil]

what's his brother carlos estevez and father ramón up to these days?

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

I honestly don't see your point?

If you want Mercer to produce more 35 points a season he needs to be in the top 6...if you are going to burry him in the bottom 6 you are wasting his potential in my opinion...

Is there something contradictory in that?

I honestly don't understand your point? You think it's ok to keep a top 6 talent with bottom 6 players? I think I've pretty consistent in that I don't want Haula or Palat anywhere near the top 6 for the same reason I don't want Mercer with them in the bottom 6.

Bratt was also terrible defensively early on and allergic to any contact. He was scratched after half assing backchecks...Sal even broke it down.

Well normally I would say Mercer didn’t earn shit last year but we really don’t have depth to keep him out of the top 6.

 

[Guttersniped]

Bratt was getting scratched because the coach was a grade A idiot, not because he was playing poorly

Bratt got healthy scratched 7 times at the end of the 2017-18 regular season. It was actually understandable, he hit the rookie wall hard and stopped producing.

The Devils have only had four 19 year old rookies play more than Bratt’s 74: Hischier (82), Muller (80), Niedermayer (80) and Verbeek (79).

Bratt was never healthy scratched in 2018-19, he missed all 31 games due to injuries.

In 2019-20 was healthy scratched four times in 2019-20: 10/25, 11/23-11/26* and 2/18**.

These scratches were dumb but both coaches did it. (And they both played John Hayden, so the idiot part can also be spread around.)

Ruff let Mercer play through his rough patches, I don’t see the scratches as a particularly meaningful difference.


*Scratched with Zacha in two home games for Seney & Hayden (good times)

**The infamous Dad/Mentors game that John Hayden had to play. This was when Jack replaced Bratt on Nico’s wing, which also sucked.

 

[JimEIV]

Bratt got healthy scratched 7 times at the end of the 2017-18 regular season. It was actually understandable, he hit the rookie wall hard and stopped producing.

The Devils have only had four 19 year old rookies play more than Bratt’s 74: Hischier (82), Muller (80), Niedermayer (80) and Verbeek (79).

Bratt was never healthy scratched in 2018-19, he missed all 31 games due to injuries.

In 2019-20 was healthy scratched four times in 2019-20: 10/25, 11/23-11/26* and 2/18**.

These scratches were dumb but both coaches did it. (And they both played John Hayden, so the idiot part can also be spread around.)

Ruff let Mercer play through his rough patches, I don’t see the scratches as a particularly meaningful difference.


*Scratched with Zacha in two home games for Seney & Hayden (good times)

**The infamous Dad/Mentors game that John Hayden had to play. This was when Jack replaced Bratt on Nico’s wing, which also sucked.

You don't see a player healthy scratched around 12 times vs one that played all 82 games for 3 straight years particularly meaningful? Bratt's rough "patches" went for years... that's not patches....Bratt was also allowed to play through rough patches...Mercer just didn't have any for his first 2 years.

I think that's wildly different.

I think playing every possible NHL game on your ELC coming straight out of junior is a big deal. I think Mercer's first 3 years were significantly more successful than Bratt's first 3...granted Bratt was a year younger.

But just in the versatility alone, Mercer has been used on every line with ever player in every situation at center and at wing...the kid has been a top 4 PK forward for two of his first 3 years in the league...a PK that was top 10 in the league both years....I mean Bratt's Curriculum Vitae wasn't in the same league as Mercer's after the first 3 years .

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

I’m not sure what this conversation turned into, but Bratt is so good that the only time Mercer wasn’t shit at center was when he was with Bratt. I don’t think you get points for versatility when the other position you play you do really poorly. Bratt could do that too, possibly better if they ever tried it.

 

[JimEIV]

I’m not sure what this conversation turned into, but Bratt is so good that the only time Mercer wasn’t shit at center was when he was with Bratt. I don’t think you get points for versatility when the other position you play you do really poorly. Bratt could do that too, possibly better if they ever tried it.

I'll help you out...

this conversation is directly related to Mercer's upcoming contract...

it's been said that Mercer should get something similar to Bratt coming off his ELC...

That's asinine. Mercer performed at another level during his ELC than Bratt did.... it's not even debatable...not remotely comparable in any way.

Edit: I am not knocking Bratt... I have always been a big supporter but his first 3 years were nowhere close to what Mercer put in.

 

[Devil X]

You don't see a player healthy scratched around 12 times vs one that played all 82 games for 3 straight years particularly meaningful? Bratt's rough "patches" went for years... that's not patches....Bratt was also allowed to play through rough patches...Mercer just didn't have any for his first 2 years.

I think that's wildly different.

I think playing every possible NHL game on your ELC coming straight out of junior is a big deal. I think Mercer's first 3 years were significantly more successful than Bratt's first 3...granted Bratt was a year younger.

But just in the versatility alone, Mercer has been used on every line with ever player in every situation at center and at wing...the kid has been a top 4 PK forward for two of his first 3 years in the league...a PK that was top 10 in the league both years....I mean Bratt's Curriculum Vitae wasn't in the same league as Mercer's after the first 3 years .

It shows that Mercers overall game was more refined then Bratt's at the time. They are different players in terms of what they bring.

And no 12 health scratches means nothing over 3 seasons. There are so many reasons why he could have been scratched, could be he just needed a day or two to recover from minor injuries, the Devils needed more of something different in the lineup based on who they were playing, to a stupid coaching decision.

If I recall Bratt was pure offense when he came in. Mercer's game even when is isnt helping on offense he is doing something else. Bratt has gotten better on that front. Guys like Mercer typically do well because they can fall in the lineup and pick up defensive or offensive roles.

 

[HoliksGhost]

Let’s trade Mercer and bring Necas in ?

 

[Hisch13r]

It shows that Mercers overall game was more refined then Bratt's at the time. They are different players in terms of what they bring.

And no 12 health scratches means nothing over 3 seasons. There are so many reasons why he could have been scratched, could be he just needed a day or two to recover from minor injuries, the Devils needed more of something different in the lineup based on who they were playing, to a stupid coaching decision.

If I recall Bratt was pure offense when he came in. Mercer's game even when is isnt helping on offense he is doing something else. Bratt has gotten better on that front. Guys like Mercer typically do well because they can fall in the lineup and pick up defensive or offensive roles.

I mean Bratt came in as a PKer for us. Mercer’s all around game has also never been anywhere near as good as advertised.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

I'll help you out...

this conversation is directly related to Mercer's upcoming contract...

it's been said that Mercer should get something similar to Bratt coming off his ELC...

That's asinine. Mercer performed at another level during his ELC than Bratt did.... it's not even debatable...not remotely comparable in any way.

Edit: I am not knocking Bratt... I have always been a big supporter but his first 3 years were nowhere close to what Mercer put in.

He got a 2 year 5.5 million dollar deal and a 1 year 5.45 million dollar deal after. If we’re signing Mercer to a 3 year deal or less, that type of average salary or whatever the current cap % equivalent would be seems fair. 4 and change I guess? Obviously more on a longer term deal.

 

[TrufleShufle]

I mean Bratt came in as a PKer for us. Mercer’s all around game has also never been anywhere near as good as advertised.

Still my biggest gripe with the team is Bratt coming off the PK. But Mercer def showed his first year what he could be. That's why I believe he was given so much running room through his slump this last year. Maybe you could argue too much, but he showed he had it in him to be a complete player.

 

[JimEIV]

He got a 2 year 5.5 million dollar deal and a 1 year 5.45 million dollar deal after. If we’re signing Mercer to a 3 year deal or less, that type of average salary or whatever the current cap % equivalent would be seems fair. 4 and change I guess? Obviously more on a longer term deal.

That's logical...but I don't think Bratt should be the baseline.

Mercer's contract should be more... Bratt's performance wasn't as good as Mercer's. And it couldn't possibly be about future projections or you wouldn't have strung Bratt along for 3 years, you just would've paid him and locked him up.

Basically I don't think Bratt is a reasonable comparable.

Jarvis and Lundell are though.

 

[Hisch13r]

Still my biggest gripe with the team is Bratt coming off the PK. But Mercer def showed his first year what he could be. That's why I believe he was given so much running room through his slump this last year. Maybe you could argue too much, but he showed he had it in him to be a complete player.

Mercer’s defensive game so far is similar to early Nico in that you can see the potential but the results have just not been there at all. Nico’s defensive impacts steadily rose over the years until 22/23 they were finally at that elite level (they fell off a cliff this year but not worried about that)

 

[dgibb10]

That's logical...but I don't think Bratt should be the baseline.

Mercer's contract should be more... Bratt's performance wasn't as good as Mercer's. And it couldn't possibly be about future projections or you wouldn't have strung Bratt along for 3 years, you just would've paid him and locked him up.

Basically I don't think Bratt is a reasonable comparable.

Jarvis and Lundell are though.

Lundell is a good comp for 6 years yes.

Pinto is a good comp for a bridge type deal

 

[JimEIV]

Lundell is a good comp for 6 years yes.

Pinto is a good comp for a bridge type deal

Are you high?

Shane Pinto has 70 career points ... Mercer has 64 goals

 

[dgibb10]

Are you high?

Shane Pinto has 70 career points ... Mercer has 64 goals

Pinto in 22-23 had similar numbers to Mercer in 22-23, Pinto in 23-24 had similar numbers to Mercer in 22-23.

 

[JimEIV]

Pinto in 22-23 had similar numbers to Mercer in 22-23, Pinto in 23-24 had similar numbers to Mercer in 22-23.

Yeah let's leave out a entire 42 point rookie campaign and make comparisons... that's convenient.

And their years weren't similar at all.

 

[Hisch13r]

Yeah let's leave out a entire 42 point rookie campaign and make comparisons... that's convenient.

And their opposite years weren't similar at all.

Why should 3 years ago hold so much relevance? Why should Mercer coming off a really really shit year also not hold any relevance? 3.75x2 sure makes a whole hell of a lot more sense than 4.75x2.

 

[dgibb10]

Yeah let's leave out a entire 42 point rookie campaign and make comparisons... that's convenient.

And their years weren't similar at all.

Player A: 20 goals, 35 points, -20
Player B: 20 goals, 33 points, -26

Player C: 27 goals, 56 points, +22
Player D: 18 goals, 54 points, +18

I'm not 100% sure if Pintos 2021-22 season accrues him a year towards UFA (I don't think it does). If I'm mistaken, that would also put pinto 1 year closer to UFA giving less team control. Also Ottawa almost always has to overpay

 

[JimEIV]

Why should 3 years ago hold so much relevance? Why should Mercer coming off a really really shit year also not hold any relevance?

I think the ELC needs to be judged in total... I'm not weighting one year over another at all...

I'm looking at 246 games, 64 goals, 67 assist and 131 points

And I think it's particularly important your it that way based on how bad the year was for everyone.

 

[JimEIV]

Player A: 20 goals, 35 points, -20
Player B: 20 goals, 33 points, -26

Player C: 27 goals, 56 points, +22
Player D: 18 goals, 54 points, +18

I'm not 100% sure if Pintos 2021-22 season accrues him a year towards UFA (I don't think it does). If I'm mistaken, that would also put pinto 1 year closer to UFA giving less team control. Also Ottawa almost always has to overpay

Where are you getting these numbers from?

Shane Pinto never had more than 35 points in a season?

You are taking averages? How ridiculous is that...you minimize Mercer's strength of playing in every game and pace a player that didn't to put him on par.... that's pure dickery

And he's a year older to boot.

 

[JrFischer54]

give mercer the longest deal he would possibly take the longer the deal the better it is for the devils

 

[dgibb10]

I think the ELC needs to be judged in total... I'm not weighting one year over another at all...

I'm looking at 246 games, 64 goals, 67 assist and 131 points

And I think it's particularly important your it that way based on how bad the year was for everyone.

NHL contracts most heavily weigh the most recent year.

It is great for NJD. Mercer played himself out of a ton of leverage.

And negotiations heavily rely on comps. Lundell and Pinto will 100% be brought up negotiations and used as baselines.