Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason part II

[njdevil26]

The Habs priced Subban at 5.5M on a 69M cap coming off a Norris Trophy win a year earlier.

Then signed him for 9 mil a year. Anyone using the arb numbers to bash the Devils and call them cheap is not understanding how this works.

 

[MadDevil]

I don't think AAV is the problem anyway. I think the Devils want 7-8 years and Bratt wants like 2-3 so he can get another payday in a few years. Ultimately I think they compromise on a 4-5 year deal.

 

[HBK27]

The report that no counter offer has occurred from Bratts camp makes it obvious his camp doesn't want long term.

So even if that speculation is correct, is that because he's just trying to maximize his earnings as many are suggesting or that he doesn't want to be part of this team long-term as the other poster had suggested?

 

[Call Me Al]

maximize earnings is my guess

 

[JimEIV]

So even if that speculation is correct, is that because he's just trying to maximize his earnings as many are suggesting or that he doesn't want to be part of this team long-term as the other poster had suggested?

I don't think it is speculation...Fitz said he made an offer and never heard back...

I don't think it is long jump to the conclusion that Bratt is trying to get to UFA ASAP?

 

[mdj12784]

Unless he did see the writing on the wall and tried to replace with with Gaudreau or Tkachuk... neither of which I can blame Fitz for not getting the player. It was overly obvious Gaudreau didn't want to come here and no other team in the league was going to match what Florida paid for Tkachuk.

Both teams will regret. That line was fire together, now they’re all split up. Those point totals will drop drastically

 

[Billdo]

Yes, of course they didnt offer him a longterm deal at $4.15 AAV

But do you see them offering him a longterm deal at close to double what their arb. offer is? Because I don't, and thats what his value is.

I could see them offering a 7x7 or 8x7.

I'm kinda more shocked that Bratt's number for himself is so low. My dude you just put up 73 points in 76 games. Ask for more.

And his previous career high is 35 points so maybe don't go nuts with the ask. I think this comes down to term not dollars. He probably wants a deal walking him to UFA or giving him another big ticket before he hits 30.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

So even if that speculation is correct, is that because he's just trying to maximize his earnings as many are suggesting or that he doesn't want to be part of this team long-term as the other poster had suggested?

He doesn't want to sign long term at the lowest point of a COVID cap IMO. If the Cap goes up 4 million a year for the next 4 years, that is quite the paycheck at 28. It is a gamble on his part but one that could get him 11 years (4 + 7) at 9-10 million if all works out.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

It’s completely reasonable for Bratt to think he’ll be even better next year and put himself into a higher price range. Look at someone like Aaron Judge — already an elite player, turns down big money…and this year he’s on pace to shatter the non-steroid HR record and will get whatever the hell he wants in free agency from someone.

It’s a totally reasonable ask for Bratt at his age with his trajectory to say pay me like a player that will only get better. If the team doesn’t want to make that bet, they’re not getting him long term. Simple as.

 

[ninetyeight]

I don't think AAV is the problem anyway. I think the Devils want 7-8 years and Bratt wants like 2-3 so he can get another payday in a few years. Ultimately I think they compromise on a 4-5 year deal.

What kinda pay day is he expecting? Lets say Fitz offered him 7m or even 7.5m, is he thinking he'll be some Johnny Gaudreau type 120pts player? Doesn't make sense to turn down guaranteed 60million and take 5-6m for the next 2-3 years, and hope you get better and not get injured.

 

[JimEIV]

Bratt asking for 6.5 on a 1 or 2 year deal is probably a lot more money than he would actually make on structured long term deal at 7.5 in the first year or two...

So he makes more in the short term and becomes a UFA right when the Cap is about to rise new levels...This is calculated.

And if that is true...

Hoping for the cheapest 1 year deal the arbiter is willing to award on Wednesday and then a trade Thursday.

 

[Devils731]

The Habs priced Subban at 5.5M on a 69M cap coming off a Norris Trophy win a year earlier.

So the Habs offered ~7.9% of the cap to Subban.

The Devils are offering ~5% to Bratt.

Subban was obviously better but this comparison says he’s like 60% better if using the minimum offers as a guide.

I don’t think this makes the Devils offer look reasonable nor normal.

Bratt’s teams ask if actually the equivalent to what Subban was offered.

The Devils number looks like poor public and private negotiating to me.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

It’s completely reasonable for Bratt to think he’ll be even better next year and put himself into a higher price range. Look at someone like Aaron Judge — already an elite player, turns down big money…and this year he’s on pace to shatter the non-steroid HR record and will get whatever the hell he wants in free agency from someone.

It’s a totally reasonable ask for Bratt at his age with his trajectory to say pay me like a player that will only get better. If the team doesn’t want to make that bet, they’re not getting him long term. Simple as.

It's also reasonable to think that last season was an outlier and we could see regression.

 

[Devs3cups]

It's also reasonable to think that last season was an outlier and we could see regression.

Who knows, maybe Fitz is down for a 1-year deal, see how Bratt performs, and if he replicates throw him 8.5 mil + on a long-term deal? Maybe he's reluctant to give him big money after 1 big season and many more okay/good seasons?

 

[HBK27]

Fiala would go on to sign a one-year, $5.1M contract the following day, essentially splitting the difference.

Though, Minnesota was also in no position to sign him long-term due to the Parise/Sutter buyouts.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

Bratt asking for 6.5 on a 1 or 2 year deal is probably a lot more money than he would actually make on structed long term deal at 7.5 in the first year or two...

So he makes more in the short term and becomes a UFA right when the Cap is about to rise new levels...This is calculated.

And if that is true...

Hoping for the cheapest 1 year deal the arbiter is willing to award on Wednesday and then a trade Thursday.

Jim you are spot on here, from the Joe Douglas school of thought, every player has a price point that makes them valuable to a team. Stick to that and if the contract doesn't make sense move on at their peak value. It is what Carolina did with Hamilton. We have an opportunity to get a lot of assets back or a similar player within our price range.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

It's also reasonable to think that last season was an outlier and we could see regression.

There isn’t much basis for that in my opinion unless you’re just looking at counting stats. And we pay plenty of people to drill down much further than that.

You can say something like that, but then you just aren’t prepared to make a long term commitment to the player. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever for Bratt to get locked in a long term deal that pays him like a player that is worse than what he did last season. Not reasonable.

 

[njdevil26]

Fiala would go on to sign a one-year, $5.1M contract the following day, essentially splitting the difference.

Though, Minnesota was also in no position to sign him long-term due to the Parise/Sutter buyouts.

Yeah again... can't see those arb numbers and choose sides... but anything not resulting in a long term deal is bad news for us fans.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

There isn’t much basis for that in my opinion unless you’re just looking at counting stats. And we pay plenty of people to drill down much further than that.

You can say something like that, but then you just aren’t prepared to make a long term commitment to the player. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever for Bratt to get locked in a long term deal that pays him like a player that is worse than what he did last season. Not reasonable.

Was there a basis for Suzuki stinking it up year 1 after signing long term?

 

[Homedresser]

People need to start taking emotions out of this and realize it is business. I hope the player gets paid but in the long run I want the GM winning this battle, it gives the Devils the best chance to compete for the cup each year.

well put. You want Fitz to win this negoiation.

 

[Devil X]

Robert Thomas was a 35-40 point player before breaking out this past year and just signed for $8x8

Josh Norris has 90 career points in 2 seasons and just signed for $8x8

lets not act like this is some unprecedented thing...

True, arent they both centers?

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Was there a basis for Suzuki stinking it up year 1 after signing long term?

So you do not want to make a long term commitment to the player. Penny pinch and you don’t get the player.

You should be happy with a 1 year deal if you actually think last year was a fluke. Not exactly sure how you can fluke into those dominant underlying numbers though.

 

[Triumph]

Was there a basis for Suzuki stinking it up year 1 after signing long term?

Everybody on Montreal had an awful season, the team completely fell apart. The Devils aren't going to get anywhere close to equal value for Bratt, look at what Gaudreau got on the open market; half the teams in the league are not interested in a player this size, for reasons that escape me completely.

That said, I don't think Bratt is going to sign a 7 or 8 year deal and I think there's good reasons for him not to do it. I think they'll settle on 4 years.

 

[Homedresser]

I would do $8x8 in a second if he will sign it. If he wants to go to UFA in 2 years, we need to trade him.

no shot he's getting offered 8x8.

 

[Mgd31]

This Bratt stuff is just a distraction from the cutthroat Tyce Thompson proceedings.