Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason part II

[RangerDoggo]

CJ nails it on the head. f*** this team if they’re not willing to give him a comparable to Fiala, Norris, Thomas.

I see where CJ is coming from here but the issue is not money, it's term. He does not want to be with us for eight years, if at all. Ergo, 8x8 will not get it done.

 

[HBK27]

I see where CJ is coming from here but the issue is not money, it's term. He does not want to be with us for eight years, if at all. Ergo, 8x8 will not get it done.

Where exactly are you getting this from?

 

[njdevil26]

CJ nails it on the head. f*** this team if they’re not willing to give him a comparable to Fiala, Norris, Thomas.

I think the Devils are probably absolutely willing to pay him that... I don't think Bratt wants it! The only things we have heard about this is that there was a long term deal on the table over 7 mil per year and Bratt/agent haven't responded or negotiated.

Anyone blaming the Devils here has some kind of agenda about them being cheap or inept and none of us here have the full story other than what we've heard.

Let's say the Devils have a 7.25 x 8 deal on the table... Norris is at 7.95. If Bratt views that as a comparable, you're telling me they couldn't negotiate based off that?


This is speculation of course... but I've also said Bratt was willing to miss camp over WAY less and this is now widely known to be how his agent conducts business.

 

[Hisch13r]

I would do $8x8 in a second if he will sign it. If he wants to go to UFA in 2 years, we need to trade him.

If he wants to go to UFA in 2 years his trade value drops significantly and we’re not getting close to value back. I keep him and try and use that 8th year so we can’t be matched financially. The issue to me seems to be we’re likely not offering enough on that 8 year deal right now.

 

[RangerDoggo]

Where exactly are you getting this from?

It's educated speculation on my end. Why would you lock yourself up long term at that amount of money when you can go short-term, bet on yourself, and get lots more money in your next deal?

 

[Devilsfan992]

It's educated speculation on my end. Why would you lock yourself up long term at that amount of money when you can go short-term, bet on yourself, and get lots more money in your next deal?

Bolded for the answer.

 

[RangerDoggo]

If he wants to go to UFA in 2 years his trade value drops significantly and we’re not getting close to value back.

The only thing I'm blaming Fitz for is for wildly misreading the room here and not trading him prior to this mockery of a "negotiation."

 

[HBK27]

It's educated speculation on my end. Why would you lock yourself up long term at that amount of money when you can go short-term, bet on yourself, and get lots more money in your next deal?

Because, as you already alluded to, it's still a gamble. I know Bratt had a breakout season, but I wouldn't now say that last season is his absolute floor going forward.

This logic could also apply to just about any player. Sometimes the bet works, sometimes it doesn't and it always comes with some risk that an injury could blow the whole strategy up.

 

[PizzaAndPucks]

Maybe Bratt was mad that he was rumored to be apart of a trade for Tkachuk ?

 

[njdevil26]

The only thing I'm blaming Fitz for is for wildly misreading the room here and not trading him prior to this mockery of a "negotiation."

Unless he did see the writing on the wall and tried to replace with with Gaudreau or Tkachuk... neither of which I can blame Fitz for not getting the player. It was overly obvious Gaudreau didn't want to come here and no other team in the league was going to match what Florida paid for Tkachuk.

 

[HBK27]

Maybe Bratt was mad that he was rumored to be apart of a trade for Tkachuk ?

That would be a rather stupid reason to not sign, especially considering a better player in Huberdeau was the main component in a trade for Tkachuk.

Could also be that Fitz is tired of these negotiations and concerned with signing Bratt long-term, which could be why he was willing to package him for Tkachuk.

Maybe Bratt should also realize the grass isn't always greener elsewhere.

Dubious wanted out of Columbus and landed in Winnipeg and now wants out of there. I'm sure Huberdeau regrets not negotiating an extension with Florida when he had an opportunity.

 

[MadDevil]

Maybe Bratt was mad that he was rumored to be apart of a trade for Tkachuk ?

No, it's because we traded Zacha.

 

[The Devil In I]

It's educated speculation on my end. Why would you lock yourself up long term at that amount of money when you can go short-term, bet on yourself, and get lots more money in your next deal?

That has nothing to do with if he actually wants to be here or not, though. It's just their (him and his agents) strategy to maximize his overall career earnings. If he signs 8 years now he's UFA at 32 and we've seen the market someone dry up for players at that age, as teams are worried about how much longer they can keep it up.

So from their end it's probably looked at like....

8x7.5M now and then earn maybe an additional 15-20 million in contracts at 32+ years old

Or

5x6M now and then at 29 sign a 6-8 year deal in a league with a higher salary cap for like 60+ million

Not taking the long term security right now and risking injury certainly is a gamble, but it could pay off with something like an additional 15M+ in career earnings if it works out.

 

[RangerDoggo]

Unless he did see the writing on the wall and tried to replace with with Gaudreau or Tkachuk... neither of which I can blame Fitz for not getting the player. It was overly obvious Gaudreau didn't want to come here and no other team in the league was going to match what Florida paid for Tkachuk.

We were well into the thick of things with Tkachuk. I'm fine with shipping out Bratt, it's the other pieces that would give me pause.

Just hit up the Sharks and trade for Timo Meier. You're not going to get anyone better.

 

[Devils731]

I tend to agree with this sentiment. Even taking hardball and 1 year into account this seems like a hard number for the Devils to reasonably defend to anyone.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

CJ looks at things through a narrow one dimensional view. Let's go pull up his receipts following Hamilton signing and see if he feels the same way. Everything is linear to the analytic crowed. It is why I muted him on Twitter. Bratts career has a very good chance of not being linear.

 

[Call Me Al]

Wonder how much (if any) of this is also due to Fitz wanting to keep the salary structure having Hughes and Nico as the top paid forwards. I know it's different situations and Bratt would be giving up more UFA years (potentially) on a long-term deal, but ideally his salary should be right below Nico's $7.25M.

Would both sides agree to a 5 x $7M deal (would eat up 3 UFA years similar to Nico's pre-Covid deal)? Doesn't sound like Bratt's side would agree to that though.

this is possible but it’s not fair to bratt. both hughes and nico are in line for HUGE contracts in their prime, and bratt could be passing that opportunity up completely with this next contract. it’s completely understandable that bratt wants to cash in, i just hope both sides could come to a reasonable solution that makes them both happy.

honestly it’s a little crazy but a shorter term deal like 3 years that gives us the opportunity to lock him up for 8 years while still in his prime, when the cap is set to make a huge leap, wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world (as long as he doesn’t become a ufa and leave)

I tend to agree with this sentiment. Even taking hardball and 1 year into account this seems like a hard number for the Devils to reasonably defend to anyone.

they’re going to take his historical production and try to justify it, which is reasonable for arbitration but shitty for this to be public knowledge as far as bratts relationship to the team is concerned

 

[RangerDoggo]

I tend to agree with this sentiment. Even taking hardball and 1 year into account this seems like a hard number for the Devils to reasonably defend to anyone.

When you put it that way, it's no f***ing wonder why Bratt despises us.

 

[JimEIV]

It's starting to feel like the end of a relationship.

 

[HBK27]

this is possible but it’s not fair to bratt. both hughes and nico are in line for HUGE contracts in their prime, and bratt could be passing that opportunity up completely with this next contract. it’s completely understandable that bratt wants to cash in, i just hope both sides could come to a reasonable solution that makes them both happy.

honestly it’s a little crazy but a shorter term deal like 3 years that gives us the opportunity to lock him up for 8 years while still in his prime, when the cap is set to make a huge leap, wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world (as long as he doesn’t become a ufa and leave)

No way the Devils can do 3 years. That buys just one year of UFA. Would think it has to be 4-5 years minimum, which would still put him in-line for a nice long-term deal at the end.

 

[Devs3cups]

When you put it that way, it's no f***ing wonder why Bratt despises us.

Sure, when you put it that way. But that 4.15 mil has nothing to do with what Fitz offered long-term to Bratt. I'm actually quite surprised Weekes brought it up like that, Fitz's long-term offer is definitely close to what these other guys got on long-term deals. Weekes knows better.

EDIT: A reminder that MTL filed arbitration with Subban back in the day with a 5.5 mil 1 year offer. Subban ended up signing a 8-year, 9 mil AAV contract. Arbitration fillings mean nothing.

 

[Triumph]

I tend to agree with this sentiment. Even taking hardball and 1 year into account this seems like a hard number for the Devils to reasonably defend to anyone.

The Habs priced Subban at 5.5M on a 69M cap coming off a Norris Trophy win a year earlier.

 

[Call Me Al]

No way the Devils can do 3 years. That buys just one year of UFA. Would think it has to be 4-5 years minimum, which would still put him in-line for a nice long-term deal at the end.

yeah my thinking is the 8 years at the end would look better if we get that contract done sooner. the cap is going to explode once the covid deficit is paid off - the two tv contracts alone are astronomical in comparison to nbc. all of our big boys will be in line for raises

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

Where exactly are you getting this from?

The report that no counter offer has occurred from Bratts camp makes it obvious his camp doesn't want long term.

 

[HBK27]

I tend to agree with this sentiment. Even taking hardball and 1 year into account this seems like a hard number for the Devils to reasonably defend to anyone.

Let's use Fiala as a comparable.

He just had a better breakout season than Bratt and has a better track record.

He just signed for 7 x $7.85, while giving up just one RFA year versus two that Bratt would give up in that deal. Using that as a comp, I don't see how Bratt would get above $7M on a 7 year deal. I think the Devils would do that deal in a heartbeat.