Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason part I

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Why are we arguing about Miles Wood? His playoffs last year are exactly the player he is, he was literally an anchor in the Rags series with the penalties but he was one of the better players in the Carolina series. I would've loved to keep him at the right price but we should've known he was gone with what he said after the 0-2 start comment + he got paid by a legitimate contender year in and out. I don't blame him for walking and I don't blame the Devils for not chasing him with a hefty deal, we already have one in the bottom 6 in Palat in a perfect lineup.

 

[JimEIV]

I love when you devolve your arguments into semantics debates because you know you're just plainly incorrect. You ended the post with "I wish we could've kept him somehow." but you're now trying to argue that "I didn't mean I want HIM!!! I meant I wanted players LIKE him!!!"

I don't mind being incorret, just don't misrepresent what I say .


I was even going to write " guys like Maroon, Martinook and Wilson always come up big" but I deleted it because I didn't want to debate the merits of Martinook or Wilson....that is the truth.

You read into something that simply wasn't there.

And I do wish we could have kept him...we have nothing like a banging grinder with speed in the entire lineup.

 

[Oneiro]

Same old arguments aside, the bottom six is a problem.

Palat should be stapled on the third line but you need someone else there to do exactly what McLeod was doing before he left. Ideally, I'd love to see Haula pushed all the way down as the 4C with Lazar on his wing. That's contending level of depth but I doubt it happens this year.

UFAs: Stephenson, Carrier, Marchessault, Trenin, Joshua, Noesen, Henrique, Duclair, Bertuzzi, Zucker, Silvferberg, Perron, Debrusk, Martinook, Heinen

Some okay names there if you control term. Unfortunately, there are a lot of serious teams with big money coming off the books. I'm assuming we're out on big fish for cap reasons.

 

[JimEIV]

I am also starting to think Palat is done. 1 goal on 24 games is a major problem for a 6 million dollar man.

 

[guitarguyvic]

If I said: "Posters like this are infuriating. They add nothing to the discussion but use buzzwords like 'strawmanning' to talk about the forum without providing literally any input into the discussion."

Would you think I was being critical of you?

He literally ends his post by saying "I wish we could've kept him somehow". He's talking about Miles Wood and then trying to turn it into a semantics debate because he didn't realize that last night was literally the second time in his entire career he had a meaningful playoff point.

I use the term strawmanning because that's what too many people here do, and it's what you did. I'm gonna call it out when I see it because it's disingenuous and poor form that diminishes the quality of debate on message boards, sorry not sorry.

It's not a semantics debate. If someone says "players like Miles Wood always score big goals in the playoffs" that has a totally different meaning than "Miles Wood always scores big goals in the playoffs". The former is not making any commentary about how many big goals any one particular player scored, the latter is. It's the same difference as saying multiple different players of this type have scored at least one big playoff goal vs. this one specific player within that type scored a lot of big playoff goals.

It feels a tad ridiculous that this has to be spelled out to this extent.

 

[devilsblood]

If I said: "Posters like this are infuriating. They add nothing to the discussion but use buzzwords like 'strawmanning' to talk about the forum without providing literally any input into the discussion."

Would you think I was being critical of you?

He literally ends his post by saying "I wish we could've kept him somehow". He's talking about Miles Wood and then trying to turn it into a semantics debate because he didn't realize that last night was literally the second time in his entire career he had a meaningful playoff point.

You might want to check that. Looks to me like all 3 of Wood's goal this year have come with the score being a one goal game.

2nd best on Colorado this year.

With the most recent being a OT GW.

Pretty good for a 4th liner.

 

[njdevils1982]

I am also starting to think Palat is done. 1 goal on 24 games is a major problem for a 6 million dollar man.

palat is lee majors?

also wondering if farrah fawcett's character was named major woods for a reason

 

[Oneiro]

Nicholas Roy also seems like an interesting trade candidate. Seems very in-line with Fitz's MO.

 

[Mgd31]

Nicholas Roy also seems like an interesting trade candidate. Seems very in-line with Fitz's MO.

Was thinking that too. Signed for 3 years at $3 million aav. Big, defensively strong center that can score (13-15 goals last 3 years)

He's my Marino deal but using Holtz+ instead of Ty

 

[devilsblood]

palat is lee majors?

Ryan Gosling is going to play Palat in the retelling of the NJ Devils 2023-24 season?

 

[Forge]

Its weird to me how many people freak out when a bottom six role player scores a meaningful point or something. It doesn't change what he is / was.

 

[ZYXWVUT]

Nicholas Roy also seems like an interesting trade candidate. Seems very in-line with Fitz's MO.

I have been trying to will it into existence to myself. Maybe expand the deal & get Hague for some meat on the backend.

 

[devilsblood]

Its weird to me how many people freak out when a bottom six role player scores a meaningful point or something. It doesn't change what he is / was.

Of course it does. Results matter.

Do it a lot and you've done well. Don't do enough and you haven't. Goes for bottom 6 players as well as top 6.

 

[NJDevs26]

I use the term strawmanning because that's what too many people here do, and it's what you did. I'm gonna call it out when I see it because it's disingenuous and poor form that diminishes the quality of debate on message boards, sorry not sorry.

It's not a semantics debate. If someone says "players like Miles Wood always score big goals in the playoffs" that has a totally different meaning than "Miles Wood always scores big goals in the playoffs". The former is not making any commentary about how many big goals any one particular player scored, the latter is. It's the same difference as saying multiple different players of this type have scored at least one big playoff goal vs. this one specific player within that type scored a lot of big playoff goals.

It feels a tad ridiculous that this has to be spelled out to this extent.

It's kind of easy to not care about the semantics of one post when in his next post, he's comparing Nico and Bratt to Wood disparagingly when nobody brought up Nico and Bratt, as if a separate argument changes the initial point. You get all bothered about actual and perceived strawmanning but seem to have no issue with obvious whataboutism and deflection, which sends too many discussions down a black hole.

 

[ZYXWVUT]

I am also starting to think Palat is done. 1 goal on 24 games is a major problem for a 6 million dollar man.

Put him with Hischier & Bratt. That line has proven they can produce together. And I like the fact they can also go H2H with anyone as well.

 

[devilsblood]

Was thinking that too. Signed for 3 years at $3 million aav. Big, defensively strong center that can score (13-15 goals last 3 years)

He's my Marino deal but using Holtz+ instead of Ty

Wow, that's a bargain. Why would Vegas trade him at that price tag?

 

[Forge]

Of course it does. Results matter.

Do it a lot and you've done well. Don't do enough and you haven't. Goes for bottom 6 players as well as top 6.

He scored 26 points this year. He's the same dude he was in NJ. Cool, he scored an overtime goal. He was hot garbage in the rangers series last year. Small samples are subject to volatility

 

[ZYXWVUT]

Was thinking that too. Signed for 3 years at $3 million aav. Big, defensively strong center that can score (13-15 goals last 3 years)

He's my Marino deal but using Holtz+ instead of Ty

I do think Holtz could have some value to VGK. It has sounded like they could use some scoring on the wings & especially a guy on ELC for another year could be appealing.

 

[Forge]

Nicholas Roy also seems like an interesting trade candidate. Seems very in-line with Fitz's MO.

He's been brought up before and I maintain that his contract is probably what makes him most appealing for Vegas and why I think they trade Wild Bill before they trade Roy.

 

[ZYXWVUT]

Wow, that's a bargain. Why would Vegas trade him at that price tag?

I think mainly because he seems to be solidified into 4C behind Eichel-Hertl-Karlsson. And from the sound of it, he isn't nearly as effective on the wing.

 

[NJDevs26]

I do think Holtz could have some value to VGK. It has sounded like they could use some scoring on the wings & especially a guy on ELC for another year could be appealing.

I don't think Holtz has value to anyone, hence Fitz going scorched-earth in public. You don't really do that if you have a hope in hell of trading the guy unless you're (Fitz) a total airhead. Dude couldn't even make the Worlds team above non-NHL players, maybe there is a reason he never 'gets a chance'.

 

[Mgd31]

Wow, that's a bargain. Why would Vegas trade him at that price tag?

If they want to bring back Stephenson I guess. Eichel, Hertl, Stephenson or Karlsson is a crowded center group.

 

[ZYXWVUT]

I don't think Holtz has value to anyone, hence Fitz going scorched-earth in public. You don't really do that if you have a hope in hell of trading the guy unless you're (Fitz) a total airhead. Dude couldn't even make the Worlds team above non-NHL players, maybe there is a reason he never 'gets a chance'.

That latest development at the Worlds is definitely a concern on that end. But I don't really put much into the Fitz stuff one way or another.

 

[NJDevs26]

That latest development at the Worlds is definitely a concern on that end. But I don't really put much into the Fitz stuff one way or another.

It's Sweden's Worlds team, it's Fitz, it's TWO separate head coaches here. Eventually people have to start thinking maybe it's not just everyone here in management automatically being a moron. Basically questioning his work ethic multiple times is a pretty big charge for them to make just based on conjecture or just because someone doesn't like him.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

whether or not Alex Holtz has any value has literally nothing to do with a meaningless offseason tournament. There are enough things to talk about with Holtz, we don't need to stretch it.