Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason part I

[NJDevs26]

So basically my sociopath strategy is sound is what you are saying. No one has disagreed with it despite people suggesting it is extreme. The way the game is refereed there is no reason not to cheap shot the opposition.

With our luck they’ll crack down the minute we start icing a line of Rempe’s

 

[JimEIV]

So basically my sociopath strategy is sound is what you are saying. No one has disagreed with it despite people suggesting it is extreme. The way the game is refereed there is no reason not to cheap shot the opposition.

A team should be a tapestry and we are monotoned.
Cheap shots? You need some of everything...but playing hard and physical...responding when you need to is the majority of it.

Consider this for a second... everyone of Bratt, Jack, Nico and Timo have received Lady Byng votes in their career.

At the very least that's perhaps indictive of a core that doesn't have certain elements. At least it is in my opinion.

 

[My3Sons]

A team should be a tapestry and we are monotoned.
Cheap shots? You need some of everything...but playing hard and physical...responding when you need to is the majority of it.

Consider this for a second... everyone of Bratt, Jack, Nico and Timo have received Lady Byng votes in their career.

At the very least that's perhaps indictive of a core that doesn't have certain elements. At least it is in my opinion.

I think you can supplement with a couple of solid wingers for Jack. I have yet to see a situation that Bratt Hischier and healthy Meier couldn't handle. They were great down the stretch when they played together. Jack could use some pushback on his wings. The third line of Palat Haula and Mercer would be fine but I'd like to see Mercer bounce back and be able to play with Jack. If he can do that a sociopath with Palat and Haula would be ideal. A fourth line of guys who make Rempe look controlled would be helpful as well. You can add maybe two legit good players who will hit hard and then a line of three maniacs who don't have to be good at all as long as they can get in the way defensively and they actively try to kill the other team. It seems to work as a strategy so why not.

 

[devilsblood]

It’s incredibly funny to just label a group of players as “soft as butter”, ignoring that they’re some of the best players in the entire NHL that excel in a variety of areas that actually matter. The idea that that group needs wholesale changes and not some small pieces that fit…just silly. If only we were captained by a tough guy like Brady Tkachuk — no way a team would miss the playoffs led by a big strong man like that.

It is pretty clear though that teams want to play us physically, to beat up our skill guys, and it has paid dividends for the opposition.

I'd look to add some physical guys who can skate, I'd sacrifice other considerations to add that type of player.

But I do think that the key is for our core players to get stronger and take on more of the physical game themselves.

Now Timo down the stretch seemed to be the exact type of player Jim is looking for. Not sure why he is included in the mix.

But Nico, although a guy willing to grind and do the dirty work, does need to get stronger and I think play more physically. Jack clearly needs to get stronger. Bratt's not a physical guy but I'm fine with that.

 

[My3Sons]

It is pretty clear though that teams want to play us physically, to beat up our skill guys, and it has paid dividends for the opposition.

I'd look to add some physical guys who can skate, I'd sacrifice other considerations to add that type of player.

But I do think that the key is for our core players to get stronger and take on more of the physical game themselves.

Now Timo down the stretch seemed to be the exact type of player Jim is looking for. Not sure why he is included in the mix.

But Nico, although a guy willing to grind and do the dirty work, does need to get stronger and I think play more physically. Jack clearly needs to get stronger. Bratt's not a physical guy but I'm fine with that.

Hischier will only pushback when he gets angry and he's generally a composed guy. He's generally fine in that he takes the worst the other team dishes out and keeps doing what he does. He doesn't stay to the perimeter or shy away. It would be nice if he'd push back more but I'm skeptical he will in most situations.

 

[devilsblood]

I think you can supplement with a couple of solid wingers for Jack. I have yet to see a situation that Bratt Hischier and healthy Meier couldn't handle. They were great down the stretch when they played together. Jack could use some pushback on his wings. The third line of Palat Haula and Mercer would be fine but I'd like to see Mercer bounce back and be able to play with Jack. If he can do that a sociopath with Palat and Haula would be ideal. A fourth line of guys who make Rempe look controlled would be helpful as well. You can add maybe two legit good players who will hit hard and then a line of three maniacs who don't have to be good at all as long as they can get in the way defensively and they actively try to kill the other team. It seems to work as a strategy so why not.

Not exactly an intimidating 3rd line though. Not especially quick either.

 

[JimEIV]

I think you can supplement with a couple of solid wingers for Jack. I have yet to see a situation that Bratt Hischier and healthy Meier couldn't handle. They were great down the stretch when they played together. Jack could use some pushback on his wings. The third line of Palat Haula and Mercer would be fine but I'd like to see Mercer bounce back and be able to play with Jack. If he can do that a sociopath with Palat and Haula would be ideal. A fourth line of guys who make Rempe look controlled would be helpful as well. You can add maybe two legit good players who will hit hard and then a line of three maniacs who don't have to be good at all as long as they can get in the way defensively and they actively try to kill the other team. It seems to work as a strategy so why not.

They won't and don't do well in physically intense games ...they didn't in the playoffs...

Bratt Meier and Nico accounted for 4 goals in 35 playoff games.

Wood, McLeod and Bastian accounted for 5 goals in 34 playoff games.

 

[Brodeur]

I think Brady Tkachuk could be a name this summer.

It's weird to see some smoke around him without there being some type of fire.

Devils will be hard after Tkachuk. 10th overall + Casey + more on the table.

Still don't see how that works for Ottawa or how we fit that under the cap. Seems more like wishful thinking rather than smoke.

Marian Gaborik has bought a house in Vancouver

Marian Gaborik has bought a house in the Vancouver area, The Province has learned.

theprovince.com

I remember Marian Gaborik buying a summer house in Vancouver which led Canuck fans to conclude he was 100% signing there. Spoiler: He didn't.

 

[devilsblood]

Hischier will only pushback when he gets angry and he's generally a composed guy. He's generally fine in that he takes the worst the other team dishes out and keeps doing what he does. He doesn't stay to the perimeter or shy away. It would be nice if he'd push back more but I'm skeptical he will in most situations.

Seems like if a guy lets the league beat on him, then the league will continue to beat on him.

Given we made our mark last year as a speed team it only made sense to try to slow us down by playing us physical, but it's snowballed. Or maybe Nico has always had that target, for whatever reason, as a guy the league is willing to take cheap shots on.

 

[JimEIV]

It is pretty clear though that teams want to play us physically, to beat up our skill guys, and it has paid dividends for the opposition.

I'd look to add some physical guys who can skate, I'd sacrifice other considerations to add that type of player.

But I do think that the key is for our core players to get stronger and take on more of the physical game themselves.

Now Timo down the stretch seemed to be the exact type of player Jim is looking for. Not sure why he is included in the mix.

But Nico, although a guy willing to grind and do the dirty work, does need to get stronger and I think play more physically. Jack clearly needs to get stronger. Bratt's not a physical guy but I'm fine with that.

I add Meier because I honestly do see it as a collective. Who are the other two guys Meier is going to be with most often? That's how I see it...

It's not just Meier, it's Meier Nico and Bratt as a group. Meier doesn't change that group enough to make a difference in my opinion. It's still soft, easy to play against and susceptible to being overwhelmed by heavier more physical teams.

And Nico Bratt Jack and Meier are the guys that are going to be playing 17/18+ minutes a night every night.

Then looking at the top 6 and even the top 9 as a group it really doesn't get any better. There are no elements that make up for it anywhere....The entire group is soft, easy to play against and susceptible to being overwhelmed by heavier more physical teams.

 

[RSeen]

I think you can supplement with a couple of solid wingers for Jack. I have yet to see a situation that Bratt Hischier and healthy Meier couldn't handle. They were great down the stretch when they played together. Jack could use some pushback on his wings. The third line of Palat Haula and Mercer would be fine but I'd like to see Mercer bounce back and be able to play with Jack. If he can do that a sociopath with Palat and Haula would be ideal. A fourth line of guys who make Rempe look controlled would be helpful as well. You can add maybe two legit good players who will hit hard and then a line of three maniacs who don't have to be good at all as long as they can get in the way defensively and they actively try to kill the other team. It seems to work as a strategy so why not.

One of Palat/Mercer is likely to be in the top 6, if not both at the start of the year. Ideally one moves down later in the year if we add top 6 depth.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

I add Meier because I honestly do see it as a collective. Who are the other two guys Meier is going to be with most often? That's how I see it...

It's not just Meier, it's Meier Nico and Bratt as a group. Meier doesn't change that group enough to make a difference in my opinion. It's still soft, easy to play against and susceptible to being overwhelmed by heavier more physical teams.

And Nico Bratt Jack and Meier are the guys that are going to be playing 17/18+ minutes a night every night.

Then looking at the top 6 and even the top 9 as a group it really doesn't get any better. There are no elements that make up for it anywhere....The entire group is soft, easy to play against and susceptible to being overwhelmed by heavier more physical teams.

Total nonsense. Bratt outscored the opposition 70-54 at 5 on 5 on a horrible team. Easy to play against? What does that mean, how are you defining that? Are players that suck total ass but are physical “hard to play against”?

Jack Hughes put up 99 points in a record breaking season that included a playoff series victory against one of these supposed heavier physical teams the last time he had two functioning shoulders. It’s a good bit to call the most talented player the team has ever had “easy to play against”.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

I didn’t even hear about the oblique much less the shoulder…good lord. I shouldn’t laugh but it’s too ludicrous not to

As someone who is currently coming back from a grade 1 oblique sprain, it is near impossible to play through that. You can’t shoot, lean on a stick, pivot and I assume you can’t take contact. I’m at 7 weeks and just able to start golfing again.

 

[JimEIV]

Total nonsense. Bratt outscored the opposition 70-54 at 5 on 5 on a horrible team. Easy to play against? What does that mean, how are you defining that? Are players that suck total ass but are physical “hard to play against”?

Jack Hughes put up 99 points in a record breaking season that included a playoff series victory against one of these supposed heavier physical teams the last time he had two functioning shoulders. It’s a good bit to call the most talented player the team has ever had “easy to play against”.

This is the kind of thing that happens when you start to believe those players cards....you can abstract your way out of noticing that Bratt was largely invisible versus heavy teams.

Like no goals and 1 assist in 4 games against Washington

No goals and 3 assists against Boston in 3 games

Carolina 3 games 1 goal

Winnipeg 2 games no goals and 1 assist

Rangers 4 games no goals and 3 assist.

Philly one goal and one assist in 4 games...

20 games. 2 goals 9 assist.

Probably just coincidence.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

This is the kind of thing that happens when you start to believe those players cards....you can abstract your way out of noticing that Bratt was largely invisible versus heavy teams.

Like no goals and 1 assist in 4 games against Washington

No goals and 3 assists against Boston in 3 games

Carolina 3 games 1 goal

Winnipeg 2 games no goals and 1 assist

Rangers 4 games no goals and 3 assist.

Philly one goal and one assist in 4 games...

20 games. 2 goals 9 assist.

Probably just coincidence.

The season before:

4 goals 2 assists in 4 games vs Carolina
2 goals in 3 games vs Florida
4 assists in 3 games vs NYI
1 goal 2 assists in 4 games vs Philly
3 goals in 3 games vs Tampa
1 goal 1 assist in 2 games vs Vegas

Yes, in fact, it probably was just a coincidence. A totally nonsensical way to look at the sport. Especially absurd in the modern NHL when it’s never been easier to be an undersized player.

 

[MartyOwns]

i only skimmed the last few pages, has jim presented out of context stats based on a small sample size yet?

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

i only skimmed the last few pages, has jim presented out of context stats based on a small sample size yet?

you betcha!

Bratt had 11 pts in 20 randomly selected games this year, so it means he is always invisible vs heavy teams

 

[Billdo]

Still don't see how that works for Ottawa or how we fit that under the cap. Seems more like wishful thinking rather than smoke.

Marian Gaborik has bought a house in Vancouver

Marian Gaborik has bought a house in the Vancouver area, The Province has learned.

theprovince.com

I remember Marian Gaborik buying a summer house in Vancouver which led Canuck fans to conclude he was 100% signing there. Spoiler: He didn't.

They'd have to send something much bigger than Casey back with that pick. It would have to be Nemec, Bratt, or even Nico. I don't think there's a snowballs chance in hell it's anyone named Hughes but Ottawa isnt even listening if it's the 10th OA and Casey.

 

[My3Sons]

Seems like if a guy lets the league beat on him, then the league will continue to beat on him.

Given we made our mark last year as a speed team it only made sense to try to slow us down by playing us physical, but it's snowballed. Or maybe Nico has always had that target, for whatever reason, as a guy the league is willing to take cheap shots on.

I don’t think he gets it any worse than anyone else that does the ugly stuff. He goes to the boards and behind the net and in the crease. He gets hit as done anyone in those places. It doesn’t slow him down is the important point. His biggest issue is he’s an average sized player. He’s also one of a handful of centers that does what he does. Most guys on his spot don’t go to the ugly areas that often.

 

[My3Sons]

Total nonsense. Bratt outscored the opposition 70-54 at 5 on 5 on a horrible team. Easy to play against? What does that mean, how are you defining that? Are players that suck total ass but are physical “hard to play against”?

Jack Hughes put up 99 points in a record breaking season that included a playoff series victory against one of these supposed heavier physical teams the last time he had two functioning shoulders. It’s a good bit to call the most talented player the team has ever had “easy to play against”.

You know what the posters today have meant by hard to play against. Beyond that it’s a team not an issue for any one player. I guess to me you have to bring something to the table beyond just skating and moving the puck when you are open. Guys like Jack and Bratt are critical to any team as a guys like Timo and Nico. I’d suggest though that guys like Tierney and and Wilman and the other bottom of thr lineup guys are just there. With or without hitting they stink so get some guys that at least hit guys powerfully and maybe some cheap shots mixed in if they stink anyway. It’s not all or nothing and I’m not sure why it devolved into suggesting that the core players themselves are the problem.

 

[MadDevil]

Nico gets banged up at some point almost every year. I don't think asking him to be more physical is a great idea. Asking players to be something they're not is usually not a great idea in general. If you want a more physical lineup, go get a winger who can do it. We really don't need our skill guys trying to be "tougher" by throwing themselves around. Remember the playoffs last year when they were running around like idiots to start the Rangers series?

 

[Guadana]

You know what the posters today have meant by hard to play against. Beyond that it’s a team not an issue for any one player. I guess to me you have to bring something to the table beyond just skating and moving the puck when you are open. Guys like Jack and Bratt are critical to any team as a guys like Timo and Nico. I’d suggest though that guys like Tierney and and Wilman and the other bottom of thr lineup guys are just there. With or without hitting they stink so get some guys that at least hit guys powerfully and maybe some cheap shots mixed in if they stink anyway. It’s not all or nothing and I’m not sure why it devolved into suggesting that the core players themselves are the problem.

We need one crazy guy who can do dirty things just for everybody knows. Because thus knight fights don't work. Im not asking to be proactive but revenge should be an open option.

May be it is a stupid, unfair, conservative, psychic, etc but this is what it is going on on the ice. I would be happy to not have a need to lurking for a guy with this fleur.

 

[JimEIV]

You know what the posters today have meant by hard to play against. Beyond that it’s a team not an issue for any one player. I guess to me you have to bring something to the table beyond just skating and moving the puck when you are open. Guys like Jack and Bratt are critical to any team as a guys like Timo and Nico. I’d suggest though that guys like Tierney and and Wilman and the other bottom of thr lineup guys are just there. With or without hitting they stink so get some guys that at least hit guys powerfully and maybe some cheap shots mixed in if they stink anyway. It’s not all or nothing and I’m not sure why it devolved into suggesting that the core players themselves are the problem.

It became about the core because of me and I think it's absurd to think adding a a few guys that play 12 to 14 minutes a night is going to change the complexion of the guys that play 15 to 20 minutes a night.

Our core is marshmallow soft and they are the guys playing 60% of the game.

None of our guys initiate contact and all of them take a beating...

The team was too soft with McLeod, Wood and Zetterlund and those players would be a significant upgrade to what we have today. But they don't change how soft our top 6 is and is always going be with Jack, Bratt, Nico and yes...with Meier as well.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

if you think Nico and Meier are "soft" (we're moving the goal posts on what that means by the post), I can't take you seriously unfortunately.

 

[Billdo]

It became about the core because of me and I think it's absurd to think adding a a few guys that play 12 to 14 minutes a night is going to change the complexion of the guys that play 15 to 20 minutes a night.

Our core is marshmallow soft and they are the guys playing 60% of the game.

None of our guys initiate contact and all of them take a beating...

The team was too soft with McLeod, Wood and Zetterlund and those players would be a significant upgrade to what we have today. But they don't change how soft our top 6 is and is always going be with Jack, Bratt, Nico and yes...with Meier as well.

So who do you want to trade out of that quartet since they're "soft" and what would the return be?