Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason part I

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guitarguyvic

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Aside from some tongue-in-cheek hyperbole, no one is calling for Green to be publicly embarrassed.

Foregoing an interview and letting Green go immediately is no different in essence than any other run-of-the-mill coaching firing, including Ruff's. Buffalo just shitcanned their entire staff the day after their last game.

Give me a break with this non-sense that Green deserves better.
 

Bleedred

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This is my point exactly - I don't think anyone here would love their Boss getting fired due to poor performance, getting handed a sinking ship, and having management blast you while you are trying to finish out a year. Just because the dude is a hockey coach and not a sales professional doesn't mean its OK to to publicly humiliate the guy.
What exactly is publicly humiliating the guy? Fitz saying he's fired and not giving him an interview this summer?

I hope you don't mean a bunch of fans on a message board shredding his piss poor job of coaching, which he has a history of sucking at here at the NHL level?
 
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Bleedred

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Rogalski needs to be fired TODAY.

But I think if he's getting fired or anyone else on the staff is gonna be let go, there's a decent chance it might not be until Fitz speaks, which is supposed to be (but not yet confirmed I don't believe?) Thursday.

I think that's when Nas and Recchi got canned a couple of years ago. Whatever day Fitz spoke.
 

NJDfan86

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What exactly is publicly humiliating the guy? Fitz saying he's fired and not giving him an interview this summer?

I hope you don't mean a bunch of fans on a message board shredding his piss poor job of coaching, which he has a history of sucking at here at the NHL level?

Yea - Fitz served him a s*** sandwich and then throws him under the bus? That's pretty terrible.
 

Cheddabombs

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Aside from some tongue-in-cheek hyperbole, no one is calling for Green to be publicly embarrassed.

Foregoing an interview and letting Green go immediately is no different in essence than any other run-of-the-mill coaching firing, including Ruff's. Buffalo just shitcanned their entire staff the day after their last game.

Give me a break with this non-sense that Green deserves better.

I think Bleed wants him tarred and feathered, and I don't know if it's hyperbole
 

guitarguyvic

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Shit is just hilarious. Won't someone please just think of those unfortunate souls who get fired publicly for being bad at their job but will still be able to live completely financially worry-free and are almost guaranteed to quickly get another contract doing what they love? It's so very sad.

Yea - Fitz served him a s*** sandwich and then throws him under the bus? That's pretty terrible.
How is Fitz throwing him under the bus?

He didn't get fed a shit sandwich, he's part of a staff that served the f***ing shit sandwich.

Seriously, what the hell are we talking about here.
 

My3Sons

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Rogalski needs to be fired TODAY.

But I think if he's getting fired or anyone else on the staff is gonna be let go, there's a decent chance it might not be until Fitz speaks, which is supposed to be (but not yet confirmed I don't believe?) Thursday.

I think that's when Nas and Recchi got canned a couple of years ago. Whatever day Fitz spoke.
But what about the beatings? Don't you think we deserve to administer those first? Depending upon the severity and the implements used those could easily take two or three days.
 

Bleedred

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We have to have empathy for the millionaire coach who is appalling at his job (and every NHL job he's had in his career)??

Lmao. Yeah ok. f*** him.

Wholesale changes please.
This is one of the more callous things I've said on this board (and I don't think it's even that callous) because I actually do have empathy and to a fault in my personal life. I'm always worried about hurting people. I try to do things without hurting people or making them feel bad. I never wanna get one over on somebody that I think doesn't deserve it, but I am somewhat vengeful with people I do feel deserve it.

Anyway, for the most callous thing I've ever said on this board. I always hear stuff like ''You never feel good for a guy who loses his job. It's always hard to see a guy lose his job'' when it comes to sports coaches/management people. I don't treat them like an ordinary average guy that loses his job, at least not in most circumstances. Because when that guy gets fired, if he's under contract beyond that year? He's still getting PAID. When you and I get fired we're probably not getting paid, because we don't have a contract.

And even in the cases that they aren't under contract for next year, Travis Green will probably have no issue finding an assistant coaching job in the league this offseason, and that's assuming that he's not under contract for next year and only got a one year deal.

Ryan McGill can probably find another NHL assistant coach job this offseason.

Chris Taylor? Probably gonna have a harder time than the other 2 guys, but he'll probably be able to work somewhere, even if it's just the AHL, where he worked for a long time.

Rogalski? Well, he's probably not getting an NHL goalie coaching job next year (it can't be ruled out though), but I'm sure he'd be hired to work for some team in a lesser role, like as a goalie development coach or whatever. Which is what I think he did in St. Louis before we brought him here.

I feel bad for them, but only in the case that there's a certain humiliation that comes with being fired when you're a pro sports coach and I probably feel a little empathy if they need to uproot their families, the same way I would for a player that's been traded or put on waivers and claimed by somebody else.

But I don't have the same kind of empathy for them as I do most anyone else. And it's not because they're millionaires, but because they're either usually still under contract and not losing their pay immediately, or because it's easy for most of them to get another job in the industry. Even if it's a lesser position and lower paying.
 

Satans Hockey

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I don't think that's really what's at issue. What I'm taking from this is there is a contingent of fans who want Green yelled at and mocked and for Fitz to make public statements about Green and some other coaches about how bad they were. For example, @Bleedred wants Fitz to chain Rogalski to a desk and beat him repeatedly with a large coffee table book titled "Zen and the Art of Goalie Coaching" before telling him he sucks and he's fired and kicking him over and over again as Rogalski runs out of the building. In contrast, some others just want to do what Buffalo did and quietly relieve all the coaches of their duties with a simple release and internally give them a five minute exit interview and thank them for their efforts and tell them you know it was a tough situation and you know they are good coaches and that's why it's unfortunate the organization had to make a change. They get it. These coaches aren't stupid but they do want to be treated as people who cared and tried. I don't think anyone is advocating they should be kept on or somehow treated with kid gloves.

Gotcha I missed some of that stuff but yeah I just want them all fired and they especially don't deserve to have an interview and I frankly would be more insulted to have an interview for a job I know I'm not going to get. There's no need to waste anyone's time, we already wasted enough this season.
 
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Davegarri

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Yea - Fitz served him a s*** sandwich and then throws him under the bus? That's pretty terrible.
Fitz hired him after being laughed out of Vancouver for being a total dog shit coach. He should've never been hired here and would still be unemployed if Fitz wasn't his buddy and gave him a chance to fix his image.

Green sucks and is a loser at the NHL level. If we weren't going to replace the HC spot with an outsider, we should've just let Ruff finish out the season.
 

Bleedred

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Shit is just hilarious. Won't someone please just think of those unfortunate souls who get fired publicly for being bad at their job but will still be able to live completely financially worry-free and are almost guaranteed to quickly get another contract doing what they love? It's so very sad.
My thoughts exactly, like I just posted.

The TL/DR version. I don't feel much empathy for coaches that lose their job in pro sports. At least not in most cases. Not because they're millionaires, but because they're usually either still under contract and will get paid anyway. They're not losing their cash flow immediately, like most people do when they get fired. Or they wind up landing on their feet pretty quickly with another job the same offseason. Even if it's a lesser job/lesser paying job.

I do realize that there are exceptions to this. Travis Green would probably have an easier job getting hired to be an assistant in the NHL next year than Sergei Brylin would. That's just the way it is, as sad as that is.
 
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Satans Hockey

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I can't even begin to comprehend how Green and ticket prices are in any way related.

Because you're yapping being empathic and I'm saying I highly doubt he cares or even knows that season ticket holders got a 9% increase for this shit show. I'm not emphatic about him or his situation because I would take the bet that he sure as shit doesn't care about us.
 

guitarguyvic

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Mar 31, 2010
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This is one of the more callous things I've said on this board (and I don't think it's even that callous) because I actually do have empathy and to a fault in my personal life. I'm always worried about hurting people. I try to do things without hurting people or making them feel bad. I never wanna get one over on somebody that I think doesn't deserve it, but I am somewhat vengeful with people I do feel deserve it.

Anyway, for the most callous thing I've ever said on this board. I always hear stuff like ''You never feel good for a guy who loses his job. It's always hard to see a guy lose his job'' when it comes to sports coaches/management people. I don't treat them like an ordinary average guy that loses his job, at least not in most circumstances. Because when that guy gets fired, if he's under contract beyond that year? He's still getting PAID. When you and I get fired we're probably not getting paid, because we don't have a contract.

And even in the cases that they aren't under contract for next year, Travis Green will probably have no issue finding an assistant coaching job in the league this offseason, and that's assuming that he's not under contract for next year and only got a one year deal.

Ryan McGill can probably find another NHL assistant coach job this offseason.

Chris Taylor? Probably gonna have a harder time than the other 2 guys, but he'll probably be able to work somewhere, even if it's just the AHL, where he worked for a long time.

Rogalski? Well, he's probably not getting an NHL goalie coaching job next year (it can't be ruled out though), but I'm sure he'd be hired to work for some team in a lesser role, like as a goalie development coach or whatever. Which is what I think he did in St. Louis before we brought him here.

I feel bad for them, but only in the case that there's a certain humiliation that comes with being fired when you're a pro sports coach and I probably feel a little empathy if they need to uproot their families, the same way I would for a player that's been traded or put on waivers and claimed by somebody else.

But I don't have the same kind of empathy for them as I do most anyone else. And it's not because they're millionaires, but because they're either usually still under contract and not losing their pay immediately, or because it's easy for most of them to get another job in the industry. Even if it's a lesser position and lower paying.
Even the bolded isn't really something to feel bad about. In the modern era I don't see how you can feel all that humiliated given that just about 100% of coaches get fired in their career, 95% of them get fired multiple times. It's built into the expectation as a coach in modern sports, what is there to be humiliated by? It's a similar thing with uprooting/moving. It's the norm, you're expected to get fired eventually and move on to a different place each time. I don't think anyone is taking these jobs and thinking they are going to be the exception.
 
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Satans Hockey

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Fitz hired him after being laughed out of Vancouver for being a total dog shit coach. He should've never been hired here and would still be unemployed if Fitz wasn't his buddy and gave him a chance to fix his image.

Green sucks and is a loser at the NHL level. If we weren't going to replace the HC spot with an outsider, we should've just let Ruff finish out the season.

Ruff couldn't be kept here because the fans were already revolting and would have been chanting Fire Lindy the rest of the season. Fire Green chants never happened because everyone knew he was a lame duck coach who was gonna be gone at the end of the season.
 

Bleedred

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Fitz hired him after being laughed out of Vancouver for being a total dog shit coach. He should've never been hired here and would still be unemployed if Fitz wasn't his buddy and gave him a chance to fix his image.

Green sucks and is a loser at the NHL level. If we weren't going to replace the HC spot with an outsider, we should've just let Ruff finish out the season.
Ruff was clearly mercy fired after the chants returned in his last home game. I think if we didn't have the 1-2-0 trip to California after that, including losing to Anaheim again and the awful effort in Ruff's last game in LA, he probably would have at least made it back home to still be the head coach.

Between the abysmal effort in the Tampa game, as well as the Montreal game the day before, which we won on complete accident, combined with the chant, I think that was the end for him. Not to mention in both the Tampa and LA games it was caught that he wasn't even signaling players to change at the end of the game when the goalie was pulled or something? I forget at this point.

The last home game Hynes coached there were chants for his firing. He got one more road game, which was a hilariously bad blowout up in Buffalo, where Domingue allowed the softy of the year.
 
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NJDfan86

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Shit is just hilarious. Won't someone please just think of those unfortunate souls who get fired publicly for being bad at their job but will still be able to live completely financially worry-free and are almost guaranteed to quickly get another contract doing what they love? It's so very sad.


How is Fitz throwing him under the bus?

He didn't get fed a shit sandwich, he's part of a staff that served the f***ing shit sandwich.

Seriously, what the hell are we talking about here.

Great, we are back to “he makes a bunch of money so I think it’s ok to treat him however I want”.

Fitz made him the interim coach of a sinking ship that traded their top goal scorer at the deadline and their star center had one arm when he played - won’t even mention all the other player challenges. If you can’t even acknowledge that the team Green coached was categorically different from the one Ruff coached I don’t know what to tell you.
 

Bleedred

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Even the bolded isn't really something to feel bad about. In the modern era I don't see how you can feel all that humiliated given that just about 100% of coaches get fired in their career, 95% of them get fired multiple times. It's built into the expectation as a coach in modern sports, what is there to be humiliated by? It's a similar thing with uprooting/moving. It's the norm, you're expected to get fired eventually and move on to a different place each time. I don't think anyone is taking these jobs and thinking they are going to be the exception.
I understand what you mean. I don't disagree. I think there's a humiliation where I won't celebrate a coaches firing, at least not too proudly, but I also wouldn't feel too bad like if it was my neighbor or just an ordinary, average person.
 
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Satans Hockey

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Even the bolded isn't really something to feel bad about. In the modern era I don't see how you can feel all that humiliated given that just about 100% of coaches get fired in their career, 95% of them get fired multiple times. It's built into the expectation as a coach in modern sports, what is there to be humiliated by? It's a similar thing with uprooting/moving. It's the norm, you're expected to get fired eventually and move on to a different place each time. I don't think anyone is taking these jobs and thinking they are going to be the exception.

Hell if anyone has watched Sunderland Till I Die they lost a game at home and fired the coach immediately, they didn't even let him speak at the post game press conference. It was a rep that came out and just said he was let go. Like you said, all coaches know they'll be fired one day. It's part of the gig.
 

NJDfan86

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Because you're yapping being empathic and I'm saying I highly doubt he cares or even knows that season ticket holders got a 9% increase for this shit show. I'm not emphatic about him or his situation because I would take the bet that he sure as shit doesn't care about us.

So I am correct and you are just irrationally lashing out at Green?
 

Satans Hockey

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So I am correct and you are just irrationally lashing out at Green?

Lashing out how? Because I don't care about Green's feelings? All I want is the whole coaching staff let go. You're the one trying to act like you're better than everyone else because you're just so damn caring that coaches are real people just like us.
 

Bleedred

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Great, we are back to “he makes a bunch of money so I think it’s ok to treat him however I want”.

Fitz made him the interim coach of a sinking ship that traded their top goal scorer at the deadline and their star center had one arm when he played - won’t even mention all the other player challenges. If you can’t even acknowledge that the team Green coached was categorically different from the one Ruff coached I don’t know what to tell you.
Like I said. It's not even because of how much money he makes.

It's because he's (probably) going to still make his money, whatever he got paid this year, if he is fired. Unless he only got a one year deal.

He's (probably) not losing his cash flow if we fire him. He's in all likelihood still collecting the same amount he got paid this year to show up for work, only he doesn't have to show up for work, unless he takes another job.

And that brings me to my next point. I'm sure as bad as he is, teams would hire him to be their assistant in the NHL next year. It might be for the lowest amount of money he's made since he got into NHL coaching, because he won't be a head coach or probably not even an associate coach, but he'll still get a job.

Then again, the way Fitz explained was that Green made a call to him in 2022 and asked for tips on how he can get back into the league. So maybe he didn't get any offers until Fitz? I figured he just sat home and collected his Canucks pay, which was like $2.75 million per.
 
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