Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason edition

[NJDevs26]

I had no idea until this thread that Fitzgerald hired the assistants, so that’s worrisome.

I mean did you really think it would be Ruff’s idea to: A) keep Nas on the staff who he’s never worked with or B) hire Recchi who he has no obvious connection to (while Fitz/Shero had a clear one with him at least going back to Pittsburgh)? Even Rogalski was a Marty import I think since he came from the Blues.

 

[Oneiro]

I'd definitely like us to get out of the ex-Pens / ex-playing career network. I hate the boys club aspect of this league and it surprises me that HSBE hasn't identified that as a common stumbling block. (Also, technically, Mike Sullivan isn't part of the Fitz-era Pens crew as far as I know...)

I feel like if they want to be truly collaborative, they should invite opinions that aren't personally invested in the people already there.

 

[Triumph]

Why shouldn’t it be? I can’t say this enough, this was the worst season in 35 years for this franchise, going on year eight of the HF plan for rebuilding the Devils (almost never use cap, almost never sign older players, just keep piling up high picks in perpetuity) and it hasn’t worked. People make fun of the meme ‘that is not progress, that’s a disgrace’ regarding Hughes’ second year in the league and rightly so. Hughes was still a teenager who hadn’t played 100 games in the NHL at that point.

But in this case we’re talking seven plus years and the team hasn’t improved at all. THIS is actually a valid example of the meme. Seven full years without showing tangible progress is an actual disgrace.

It hasn't worked because of just how deep the hole was. Do you realize that other teams have players drafted before 2015 on them? In fact, they have a lot of them! The Devils have Hamilton, Severson, Tatar, Johnsson, Bernier, Vesey, and Subban. Wood barely played. That is it. The Devils are very clearly digging out of the hole. Things would be a hell of a lot worse if the Devils had a .900 SV% and finished 20th in scoring.

 

[Hisch13r]

Have you seen any indication that things are going in the right direction? You can be a doomer and still a hardcore fan.

Uhhh yeah clearly

 

[RangerDoggo]

We’ve heard from fitz that this team will be ready to compete when jack and Nico are ready to compete.

This time last year, both players were question marks.

This season saw tangible breakouts from the top three. Welcomed siegs, and Mercer to the lineup/potential core. And exposed our goaltending, coaching/special teams, and lack of an interior game.

Heading into this off-season, and next season, knowing our two young centers are ready to take the next step, as evidenced by their on-ice production, as opposed to just underlying numbers like last year, is actual progress.

If you believe in what fitz has been selling, then we did see progress this year, and the ball is in his court. We’ve got pieces.

I bolded where our views diverge. I don’t believe in what he’s selling because it hasn’t translated into meaningful results in the standings for the last ten years. I don’t want to minimize the steps our core has taken, but their contributions ring pretty damn hollow when the team as a whole put up the worst season points-wise since the Reagan administration.

Show me meaningful progress that doesn’t end in November. Then and only then will I pick up what this dreadful team puts down. Until then, I don’t see us being a mid-70 point team at our highest.

 

[Hisch13r]

You have the correct and probably realistic view. Like I said, there is a very good chance we do not improve meaningfully next year. There are still gaping holes in the bottom of the lineup and we have zero NHL caliber goaltending. Yes, what happened in net this year can happen next year.

I’m not ready to write off Holtz yet but if he never progresses, I wouldn’t be surprised in the least.

Turturo is wrong, it’s not just the goaltending. It’s the culture.

mUh CuLtUrE. Yes it's the culture's fault the 2 goalies we came into the year with were injured and we played the majority of the year with AHL caliber goaltending. It's not that the guy we brought in got hurt in camp and had season ending surgery or that the other guy never recovered from offseason surgery (he also might just suck).

 

[RangerDoggo]

It hasn't worked because of just how deep the hole was. Do you realize that other teams have players drafted before 2015 on them? In fact, they have a lot of them! The Devils have Hamilton, Severson, Tatar, Johnsson, Bernier, Vesey, and Subban. Wood barely played. That is it. The Devils are very clearly digging out of the hole. Things would be a hell of a lot worse if the Devils had a .900 SV% and finished 20th in scoring.

It’s been almost a decade since the new ownership and from a team standings standpoint we’ve dug deeper. Don’t tell me it’s just the goalie, it’s going to be awful next year barring a breakout season and/or a signing that miraculously works out. And even then, the system sucks.

 

[McDuffz88]

The next month few months dictates what happens to this team next year. Im done making excuses or giving benefit of doubt. Ive been making excuses for this team the past few years & its exhausting. Fitz has alot on his plate. In order for us to have even a chance at the playoffs he needs to A) Fire the entire coaching staff & bring in a proven playoff coach who can take us to the next level B) Find a legitimate 1A goalie C) Acquire a top line winger because Holtz aint ready yet D) get rid of the Zachas, Johnssons & replace them with players who will actually perform. These are just a few of the things out of many that this team needs.

 

[Blender]

You have the correct and probably realistic view. Like I said, there is a very good chance we do not improve meaningfully next year. There are still gaping holes in the bottom of the lineup and we have zero NHL caliber goaltending. Yes, what happened in net this year can happen next year.

I’m not ready to write off Holtz yet but if he never progresses, I wouldn’t be surprised in the least.

Turturo is wrong, it’s not just the goaltending. It’s the culture.

How does one measure "culture"?

 

[Hockey Sports Fan]

I think what the optimists recognize is how it’s almost impossible to be worse next season. Even if you pencil in a below-average goaltending season from whoever next year’s duo is, it’ll still be a vast improvement over what we saw this year. Better goaltending means more wins and more wins means better morale, and morale is big for a young team that hasn’t internalized the ups and downs of a long season yet.

And that’s not even assuming the skaters will be better, which they absolutely will be.

Or we’ll have another generationally unlucky season of injuries and Bedard will fulfill the prophecy of Nico Hischier, 3rd Line Center.

 

[NJDevs26]

I bolded where our views diverge. I don’t believe in what he’s selling because it hasn’t translated into meaningful results in the standings for the last ten years. I don’t want to minimize the steps our core has taken, but their contributions ring pretty damn hollow when the team as a whole put up the worst season points-wise since the Reagan administration.

Show me meaningful progress that doesn’t end in November. Then and only then will I pick up what this dreadful team puts down. Until then, I don’t see us being a mid-70 point team at our highest.

To be fair Fitz has only had two full years (with one being in a one-off pandemic year), Shero had five. Now if they don’t do enough this offseason or make enough progress next year then Fitz’s seat should get warmer. But atm
I give him the benefit of the doubt inasmuch that he at least tried to make tangible improvements last offseason (Hamilton, Graves, Bernier). For mostly injury-related reasons they didn’t really add as much as we’d hoped. But I do think he’ll at least try to do more than HF thinks he needs to do based on the team’s record and the fact there are still multiple holes to fill. You can’t literally wait for kids to fill them all.

 

[Eggtimer]

I think we are closer to being good than it feels we are. Fix goaltendig is #1.
After that , I thunk we have a very good chunk of the core needed .
There was a model on the Athletic that laid out what’s been needed on a roster based off of past Cup winners. We have the majority of those pieces , just need a couple tweaks.
I think the hard to get pieces are there minus a top 6 elite winger (Holts may be that)
Then one or two defensive physical D (should have that in Okhotyuk Bahl Shakir )
Luke fills the one more top 2 D man quota.
What we need to do is fill out a structured forward roster with players harder to play against
I think we are closer than it feels right now but ther is still some work to do

 

[Cheddabombs]

How does one measure "culture"?

 

[Triumph]

It’s been almost a decade since the new ownership and from a team standings standpoint we’ve dug deeper. Don’t tell me it’s just the goalie, it’s going to be awful next year barring a breakout season and/or a signing that miraculously works out. And even then, the system sucks.

Because the new owners inherited a franchise that had been completely hollowed out. Not only was the team old and soon to be bad, but it had a goalie who was keeping the team out of the cellar. Now we're in the completely reversed position - a young, soon to be good team, but goalies keeping them in the cellar. It's just night and day, and dawn is coming.

 

[Hisch13r]

Why shouldn’t it be? I can’t say this enough, this was the worst season in 35 years for this franchise, going on year eight of the HF plan for rebuilding the Devils (almost never use cap, almost never sign older players, just keep piling up high picks in perpetuity) and it hasn’t worked. People make fun of the meme ‘that is not progress, that’s a disgrace’ regarding Hughes’ second year in the league and rightly so. Hughes was still a teenager who hadn’t played 100 games in the NHL at that point.

But in this case we’re talking seven plus years and the team hasn’t improved at all. THIS is actually a valid example of the meme. Seven full years without showing tangible progress is an actual disgrace.

Except for the fact that there literally HAS been tangible progress. Year one of the rebuild was 15-16. We had the 29th CF%, 24th xGF%, 25th SCF%, 23rd HDCF%. We were dead last in GF/G. We had no truly standout young players even in the organization at all. The only real bright spot in the entire organization was a 29 year old elite of the elite goalie who dragged us kicking and screaming out of the basement. If you don't think there's been tangible progress from that then you're being delusional. Looking at results while disregarding any and all context is dumb.

 

[RangerDoggo]

I think what the optimists recognize is how it’s almost impossible to be worse next season. Even if you pencil in a below-average goaltending season from whoever next year’s duo is, it’ll still be a vast improvement over what we saw this year. Better goaltending means more wins and more wins means better morale, and morale is big for a young team that hasn’t internalized the ups and downs of a long season yet.

And that’s not even assuming the skaters will be better, which they absolutely will be.

Or we’ll have another generationally unlucky season of injuries and Bedard will fulfill the prophecy of Nico Hischier, 3rd Line Center.

Better goaltending next season is not a given and we’ve had the league’s worst injury luck over the last few seasons. And as someone else pointed out, there are still more holes to fill. You’d think we’d be closer after eight years but we don’t have competent people in charge, just loyal and stubborn idiots.

 

[Eggtimer]

Maybe we get desperate enough for a interior winger we sign Kane lol.
I hope Tkachuk somehow shakes loose in Calgary . It will be a very interesting off-season as there are a lot of big names out there that might be moving .

 

[NJDevs26]

Except for the fact that there literally HAS been tangible progress. Year one of the rebuild was 15-16. We had the 29th CF%, 24th xGF%, 25th SCF%, 23rd HDCF%. We were dead last in GF/G. We had no truly standout young players even in the organization at all. The only real bright spot in the entire organization was a 29 year old elite of the elite goalie who dragged us kicking and screaming out of the basement. If you don't think there's been tangible progress from that then you're being delusional. Looking at results while disregarding any and all context is dumb.

That’s absolutely not tangible progress. Wins and losses are tangible progress. Having better advanced stats and being younger are intangible infrastructure upgrades. They’re nice to look at and you can build off that IF you make the right moves but come on now, you don’t get to the playoffs based on HDCF going up and roster age going down.

 

[OlfactoryHughes]

I bolded where our views diverge. I don’t believe in what he’s selling because it hasn’t translated into meaningful results in the standings for the last ten years. I don’t want to minimize the steps our core has taken, but their contributions ring pretty damn hollow when the team as a whole put up the worst season points-wise since the Reagan administration.

Show me meaningful progress that doesn’t end in November. Then and only then will I pick up what this dreadful team puts down. Until then, I don’t see us being a mid-70 point team at our highest.

Even if you don’t believe in what fitz has been selling. We DID see our potential star players look more like star players, which is progress.
Will they get it right next year? I can’t say, but from my eyes alone, despite the pitiful point total, and obvious anchors that sunk our season, I see progress for our core, which is progress for our team.

 

[Triumph]

Except for the fact that there literally HAS been tangible progress. Year one of the rebuild was 15-16. We had the 29th CF%, 24th xGF%, 25th SCF%, 23rd HDCF%. We were dead last in GF/G. We had no truly standout young players even in the organization at all. The only real bright spot in the entire organization was a 29 year old elite of the elite goalie who dragged us kicking and screaming out of the basement. If you don't think there's been tangible progress from that then you're being delusional. Looking at results while disregarding any and all context is dumb.

Top 5 scorers in 2015/16 and their ages: 24, 25, 30, 32, 33.

Top 5 scorers in 2021/22 and their ages: 23, 23, 20, 23, 27

Surely these are the same exact thing.

 

[RangerDoggo]

I don’t have anything else to say without sounding like I’m arguing in a circle. Prove it in team points- not in individual marks or MIT number bullshit. Then and only then will I claim “progress.”

 

[NJDevs26]

Better goaltending next season is not a given and we’ve had the league’s worst injury luck over the last few seasons. And as someone else pointed out, there are still more holes to fill. You’d think we’d be closer after eight years but we don’t have competent people in charge, just loyal and stubborn idiots.

That’s another thing that needs to be addressed…do we improve on the medical staff or our handling of injuries? It sure didn’t help with our ‘historically bad luck’ in goaltending this year, comically mismanaging both Blackwood and Bernier. Not to mention fubaring Wood again leaves him as a question mark even next year at this point.

 

[Hockey Sports Fan]

Better goaltending next season is not a given

i actually do not agree.

 

[Hisch13r]

I don’t have anything else to say without sounding like I’m arguing in a circle. Prove it in team points- not in individual marks or MIT number bullshit. Then and only then will I claim “progress.”

I think it's funny someone can claim it's not just the goalies and complain about the record when in reality it's just the goaltending that keeps the record as shitty as it is. Simply average goaltending and ignoring all the other intangible mental effects it could have and this the 9th seed.

 

[Blender]

I think it's funny someone can claim it's not just the goalies and complain about the record when in reality it's just the goaltending that keeps the record as shitty as it is. Simply average goaltending and ignoring all the other intangible mental effects it could have and this the 9th seed.

Average NHL goaltending this season likely leaves us out of the playoffs still because the conference was insane, but we'd be on the bubble with it.