Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - camp edition

[glenwo2]

my interest in the preseason is done at this point

My interest was done by Game 1.

 

[CalamityX23]

Why we no gooder???

 

[ninetyeight]

Pretty brutal preseason. Kinda similar feelings to last year where many were ranking the Devils as a top team and we were all hyped up, only to get disappointed pretty quickly. This time we didn't even get into the regular season before we already had to lower our wildest expectations with bunch of doubt and questions in our minds.

Other than Dillon and Markström (and Casey obviously) , the new guys haven't looked good. Cotter has been terrible for how much he costed us. Every play seems to die in his hands. He dekes a guy and then gives away the puck with a terrible pass attempt or shot. So far he seems like a basic 4th line motor guy who we've had/have plenty of. I really hope he's just having early struggles with a new team/system/teammates, but if he doesn't step up his game multiple levels, I won't be surprised if Lazar outscores and outperforms him in every way. Noesen also looks like the Noesen we had few years ago instead of what he was in Carolina. Tatar has also looked meh so far, and right now it seems that 22-23 Tatar was an exception. Like many have said I also think we should have kept Kähkönen instead of Allen, but it's not a big deal as long as Markström stays healthy and performs.

But it's not like our regulars have been good either. I think this could be a good wake up call before the season even starts. Just because we have a new coach, goalie, defence+ doesn't mean we are just instantly good, everyone still has to up their game and work their ass off every single night.

 

[Better Call Sal]

Don’t know if this got shared, but at least an amusing little video of Nico being asked to rank the goalies. Especially when he gets to Markstrom lol.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Cotter was just supposed to be a guy that plays hard with some size and speed. It would hard for him to be a major disappointment considering my expectations are “decent 4th liner”.

I can’t believe I even looked at this, I am a sick man, but he got 60% of shot attempts in 3 preseason games. If he doesn’t get caved in, hits some guys, and scores the occasional goal, that’s fine.

 

[Monsieur Verdoux]

Pretty brutal preseason. Kinda similar feelings to last year where many were ranking the Devils as a top team and we were all hyped up, only to get disappointed pretty quickly. This time we didn't even get into the regular season before we already had to lower our wildest expectations with bunch of doubt and questions in our minds.

Other than Dillon and Markström (and Casey obviously) , the new guys haven't looked good. Cotter has been terrible for how much he costed us. Every play seems to die in his hands. He dekes a guy and then gives away the puck with a terrible pass attempt or shot. So far he seems like a basic 4th line motor guy who we've had/have plenty of. I really hope he's just having early struggles with a new team/system/teammates, but if he doesn't step up his game multiple levels, I won't be surprised if Lazar outscores and outperforms him in every way. Noesen also looks like the Noesen we had few years ago instead of what he was in Carolina. Tatar has also looked meh so far, and right now it seems that 22-23 Tatar was an exception. Like many have said I also think we should have kept Kähkönen instead of Allen, but it's not a big deal as long as Markström stays healthy and performs.

But it's not like our regulars have been good either. I think this could be a good wake up call before the season even starts. Just because we have a new coach, goalie, defence+ doesn't mean we are just instantly good, everyone still has to up their game and work their ass off every single night.

Apparently, Holtz hasn't been good for the Golden Knights either. However, I agree that Cotter, Noesen and Tatar could have been better. But I would also give new players time to adapt to the team. I'm also pretty sure that Cotter gets more points than Lazar this season.

 

[JrFischer54]

Pretty brutal preseason. Kinda similar feelings to last year where many were ranking the Devils as a top team and we were all hyped up, only to get disappointed pretty quickly. This time we didn't even get into the regular season before we already had to lower our wildest expectations with bunch of doubt and questions in our minds.

Other than Dillon and Markström (and Casey obviously) , the new guys haven't looked good. Cotter has been terrible for how much he costed us. Every play seems to die in his hands. He dekes a guy and then gives away the puck with a terrible pass attempt or shot. So far he seems like a basic 4th line motor guy who we've had/have plenty of. I really hope he's just having early struggles with a new team/system/teammates, but if he doesn't step up his game multiple levels, I won't be surprised if Lazar outscores and outperforms him in every way. Noesen also looks like the Noesen we had few years ago instead of what he was in Carolina. Tatar has also looked meh so far, and right now it seems that 22-23 Tatar was an exception. Like many have said I also think we should have kept Kähkönen instead of Allen, but it's not a big deal as long as Markström stays healthy and performs.

But it's not like our regulars have been good either. I think this could be a good wake up call before the season even starts. Just because we have a new coach, goalie, defence+ doesn't mean we are just instantly good, everyone still has to up their game and work their ass off every single night.

he didn't cost us much the guys weren't going to do anything here.

thats concerning the second bold i would really love to know what if any training these guys do in the off season i mean it starts early enough for them

 

[Mgd31]

Apparently, Holtz hasn't been good for the Golden Knights either. However, I agree that Cotter, Noesen and Tatar could have been better. But I would also give new players time to adapt to the team. I'm also pretty sure that Cotter gets more points than Lazar this season.

Yea in his first preseason game he got a chance on a top line, took a couple penalties and the line was broken up before the end of the game. Sounds eerily familiar.

 

[SansaStark]

This team hasn’t earned any benefit of the doubt. They have no equity. Until they prove it this year and change my mind, I will continue to put the blame squarely on the players. Specifically Nico and Jack. They need to dominate or they can go somewhere else.

 

[youryeah]

they'll be alright y'all

 

[Triumph]

This team hasn’t earned any benefit of the doubt. They have no equity. Until they prove it this year and change my mind, I will continue to put the blame squarely on the players. Specifically Nico and Jack. They need to dominate or they can go somewhere else.

This is very funny because Nico was the least of the Devils' problems last year, and while Jack was terrible when he was injured, he was incredible when he wasn't. It was pretty much everything else besides Bratt that was the problem.

The Oilers missed the playoffs when McDavid had 116 points and Draisaitl had 105. Your stars can carry you only so far.

 

[NJ DevLolz]

If Zboril is on the plane to Europe, I’ll be pissed. He was hot trash this preseason. I’m not sure if Casey or Kova can play LD, but they need to find a way to put Casey in the lineup until reinforcements arrive.

Some other thoughts:

- Hamilton and Dillon cannot play together. Neither has the footspeed to cover for the other’s aggressiveness (Dougie’s punches, Dillon’s hits).

- Switch Timo and Mercer. We have seen a ton of evidence 28 and 86 do not work together.

- Gonna be impossible to judge this team until Thanksgiving with a new system, new players, and until Pesce and Luke come back. Hopefully they get off to a decent start.

 

[tailfins]

The Oilers missed the playoffs when McDavid had 116 points and Draisaitl had 105. Your stars can carry you only so far.

Weirdly, your example actually helps his argument. That year, McDavid scored under his 1.5+ ppg career average, and Draisaitl only slightly exceeded his career average. McDavid, in particular, has found another gear since.

 

[Hisch13r]

If Zboril is on the plane to Europe, I’ll be pissed. He was hot trash this preseason. I’m not sure if Casey or Kova can play LD, but they need to find a way to put Casey in the lineup until reinforcements arrive.

Some other thoughts:

- Hamilton and Dillon cannot play together. Neither has the footspeed to cover for the other’s aggressiveness (Dougie’s punches, Dillon’s hits).

- Switch Timo and Mercer. We have seen a ton of evidence 28 and 86 do not work together.

- Gonna be impossible to judge this team until Thanksgiving with a new system, new players, and until Pesce and Luke come back. Hopefully they get off to a decent start.

Yeah Casey should be in the lineup without question. I thought they should've given Misyul the look over Zboril last night. I've liked him a lot more.

Go back to Siegs-Dougie. Even last year with the teams struggles and Siegs being a mess they managed a 58% CF, 57% xG, and 61% SCF and HDCF together. That pair just works.

Yeah agreed it's so obvious that switch needs to happen.

While I agree there needs to be some adjustment period they also can't dig themselves too big of a hole. If they continue to look anything even remotely like the preseason then by the time Thanksgiving comes around they'll be toast.

 

[ZYXWVUT]

Yeah Casey should be in the lineup without question. I thought they should've given Misyul the look over Zboril last night. I've liked him a lot more.

Go back to Siegs-Dougie. Even last year with the teams struggles and Siegs being a mess they managed a 58% CF, 57% xG, and 61% SCF and HDCF together. That pair just works.

Yeah agreed it's so obvious that switch needs to happen.

While I agree there needs to be some adjustment period they also can't dig themselves too big of a hole. If they continue to look anything even remotely like the preseason then by the time Thanksgiving comes around they'll be toast.

Agree as well plus the post you quoted about Dillon-Hamilton not working. Unfortunately if there weren’t any tweaks during last nights debacle, I highly doubt anything changes heading into Prague.

 

[Triumph]

Weirdly, your example actually helps his argument. That year, McDavid scored under his 1.5+ ppg career average, and Draisaitl only slightly exceeded his career average. McDavid, in particular, has found another gear since.

It doesn't at all, what are you talking about? Both guys finished top 10 in points in 2018-19, McDavid was 2nd and Draisaitl was 4th. McDavid finished 3rd in points this season and Draisaitl finished 7th. The difference is the other players - in 2018-19, the goaltending was bad and there were only 6 players who scored 10 or more goals. In 2023-24, the goaltending was okay and there were 10 players who scored 10 or more.

 

[Devs3cups]

The vibes around here are eerily similar to the start of the 2022-2023 season.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

This team hasn’t earned any benefit of the doubt. They have no equity. Until they prove it this year and change my mind, I will continue to put the blame squarely on the players. Specifically Nico and Jack. They need to dominate or they can go somewhere else.

thank u for letting us know!

 

[Hisch13r]

The vibes around here are eerily similar to the start of the 2022-2023 season.

Preseason vs regular season obviously but the vibes of their play is eerily similar to the start of the 2023-2024 season. They still played well those first 2 games of 22-23. Side note, hilariously the "Fire Lindy" crowd has been wholly vindicated at this point. Sure we had the 22-23 success but I think and I imagine most would agree given what we've seen since from both guys that Brunette was the one leading the charge there for the coaching staff. If we fired Lindy and promoted Brunette I think we have similar success in 22-23 and are wayyyyy better last year with Brunette in charge.

 

[The Wumpus]

Watch the B-team sweep the rest of the preseason just cuz

 

[Devs3cups]

Preseason vs regular season obviously but the vibes of their play is eerily similar to the start of the 2023-2024 season. They still played well those first 2 games of 22-23. Side note, hilariously the "Fire Lindy" crowd has been wholly vindicated at this point. Sure we had the 22-23 success but I think and I imagine most would agree given what we've seen since from both guys that Brunette was the one leading the charge there for the coaching staff. If we fired Lindy and promoted Brunette I think we have similar success in 22-23 and are wayyyyy better last year with Brunette in charge.

You might be right with Brunette, clearly he had something with this group. But I believed and still do believe that Keefe can lead us to success and is more fitted for this team than Ruff.

 

[tailfins]

It doesn't at all, what are you talking about? Both guys finished top 10 in points in 2018-19, McDavid was 2nd and Draisaitl was 4th. McDavid finished 3rd in points this season and Draisaitl finished 7th. The difference is the other players - in 2018-19, the goaltending was bad and there were only 6 players who scored 10 or more goals. In 2023-24, the goaltending was okay and there were 10 players who scored 10 or more.

I'm not saying you were wrong about your general point, just that you picked an example where in fact McDavid in particular has leveled up further.

You're pointing out that other players are scoring more - but how much of that is McDavid creating opportunity either directly or indirectly? McDavid was 1.49 ppg in 2018-2019. Since then he's at 1.7 ppg (with 100 assists in 23-24, 37 more than 18-19).

I guess I'm picking this somewhat pedantic argument because I personally feel that Nico and Jack do need to lead this team. It is a team sport, and I agree with your general point that one or two individuals can only take you so far, but I don't think that absolves star players from needing to be the drivers of the improvement.

A team with Jack, Nico, Bratt, Meier, Dougie, Pesce should make the playoffs. The rest of the team could be replacement players (they clearly aren't), and I'd still think they should be in the playoffs.

 

[Devs3cups]

We've seen some bad preseason starts around the league over the years and it's not an accurate representation of what's going to happen in the regular season, but I wish we saw a bit more cohesion and chemistry.

I'll say we saw some glimpses, many of the mistakes made that led to goals against were made by AHL guys, and I'm sure most guys aren't going 100%. Hopefully they take the next week to practice, take in the new system, focus and get to speed. I'm optimistic. We have the tools, juste need to piece everything together

 

[theoptimist]

This team hasn’t earned any benefit of the doubt. They have no equity. Until they prove it this year and change my mind, I will continue to put the blame squarely on the players. Specifically Nico and Jack. They need to dominate or they can go somewhere else.

Zero equity. It’s playoffs or bust for Fitz.

 

[McDuffz88]

I’m in agreement that Jack can carry lesser offensive wingers to success.

I’m in the boat that the Devils best lineup may be Timo, Bratt, and Hughes on 3 separate lines. I think this because Hughes doesn’t need anyone else to be offensively dangerous.

Bratt and Nico have good offensive chemistry while still being able to go up against the other teams top players.

Hughes I think creates offense on his own for himself most nights, so I can put random meat and potato guys with him and get good results.

Timo then gets to go up against the other teams lesser talent and defenders and he should do well being “the guy” on a line where he’s the most talented guy on the ice.

We tried the Timo on the 3rd line experiment. It doesn't work. You don't pay a player $9 million dollars to play on the 3rd line for him to be the "best player on the ice". Both Nico and Bratt should have one of our premier wingers stapled to them for the entire season. Timo with Nico works and Hughes with Bratt works. If it was me I would run
Meier-Nico-Mercer
Palat-Hughes-Bratt
Tatar-Haula-Noeson
With these 3 lines I think things become perfectly balanced. Timo/Nico have chemistry & Mercer/Nico have chemistry. It puts Mercer in the best possible situation to succeed. Bratt/Hughes have obvious chemistry so let them run all the offensive on their line while Palat just plays defense/the dirty work for them. Putting Tatar on the 3rd line will help bring some much needed offense to it. We don't need a superstar down there like what you suggested. We just need an average 3rd line and these players can be that.