Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - camp edition

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

8 goalies in camp is a bit ridiculous lol

 

[JimEIV]

Really respect Jim dropping the Severson/Graves/Wood post.

Takes a lot of gumption to make the missmeyet.jpg post about a group of players who are all widely derided for their dogshit contracts, and two of whom were literally benched last season for sucking.

We got out at exactly the right time on all three of those dudes, and I say that as a lifelong Severson booster.

Its easy to say we got out of those deals at the right time based the on dollars...or even current performance...

But our results before and after say otherwise...we can get into the minutia of we closer to a bottom 5 team than a playoff last season but the personnel changes were pretty glaring.... especially on defense.

 

[MasterofGrond]

Its easy to say we got out of those deals at the right time based the on dollars...or even current performance...

But our results before and after say otherwise...we can get into the minutia of we closer to a bottom 5 team than a playoff last season but the personnel changes were pretty glaring.... especially on defense.

It’s easy to say because it’s obviously correct.

We should not have attempted to pay Severson 6M a year or given Graves 4.5x6.

I’m not saying we didn’t need another defenseman last year, we clearly did. But a bad deal isn’t better than no deal.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

It’s easy to say because it’s obviously correct.

We should not have attempted to pay Severson 6M a year or given Graves 4.5x6.

I’m not saying we didn’t need another defenseman last year, we clearly did. But a bad deal isn’t better than no deal.

and in fact, I'd rather have Pesce + Dillon vs Severson + Graves

 

[Hisch13r]

It’s easy to say because it’s obviously correct.

We should not have attempted to pay Severson 6M a year or given Graves 4.5x6.

I’m not saying we didn’t need another defenseman last year, we clearly did. But a bad deal isn’t better than no deal.

The big issue last year wasn’t not having another guy. It was Siegs and Marino falling off cliffs. If they repeat 22-23 it’s not a real issue. Also obviously Dougie missing 75% of the year but that’s not something you can foresee and Nemec filled in better than any extra D would’ve

 

[Triumph]

Really respect Jim dropping the Severson/Graves/Wood post.

Takes a lot of gumption to make the missmeyet.jpg post about a group of players who are all widely derided for their dogshit contracts, and two of whom were literally benched last season for sucking.

We got out at exactly the right time on all three of those dudes, and I say that as a lifelong Severson booster.

Haven't seen the post but it is perfect timing, because the new guys haven't played at all yet. It's like how sometimes you look at the team's prospect pool in May and think 'huh, there's not a whole lot here' but of course there's a draft coming up in the following month.

I will certainly never think about any of those guys again. They're all fine players and they have their use. That's what makes up most of NHL teams; it's not what wins championships.

 

[JimEIV]

It’s easy to say because it’s obviously correct.

We should not have attempted to pay Severson 6M a year or given Graves 4.5x6.

I’m not saying we didn’t need another defenseman last year, we clearly did. But a bad deal isn’t better than no deal.

A bad deal is better than no deal for a team that's ready to seriously compete.

Last year we should have built upon 2023...and I'm not even talking about in terms of wins/losses... I'm talking about becoming a team that is more serious....

We took two steps backwards last year...and if we could've avoid that with a bad contract or two....sign me up.

Last year for players like Bratt, Meier, Jack and Nico were poison to their careers and our window

Haven't seen the post but it is perfect timing, because the new guys haven't played at all yet. It's like how sometimes you look at the team's prospect pool in May and think 'huh, there's not a whole lot here' but of course there's a draft coming up in the following month.

I will certainly never think about any of those guys again. They're all fine players and they have their use. That's what makes up most of NHL teams; it's not what wins championships.

Shooting blanks in the dark ..

 

[MasterofGrond]

The big issue last year wasn’t not having another guy. It was Siegs and Marino falling off cliffs. If they repeat 22-23 it’s not a real issue. Also obviously Dougie missing 75% of the year but that’s not something you can foresee and Nemec filled in better than any extra D would’ve

Yeah that matters, if they weren’t terrible we’re much closer to okay.

but we saw 63 games of Brendan Smith last year and injuries or no, that’s just unacceptable in 2024

 

[Darkauron]

There’s wayyyy more than enough money for Mercer. We have 5.75 left. Harley just signed for 4 mil 2 years and he was substantially better than Mercer.

We dont have 5.75 we have like 4.9 with cap overages ect. Yeah Id say it is still enough to get him signed short term, but long term + UFA years that mercer might want may/is driving up the prices

 

[My3Sons]

There were a lot of Bratt skeptics here, I bet @glenwo2 has them all written down somewhere. They got louder during the various contentious negotiations or when he was on a cold streak.

Just look at his career season by season points, every season until 73 point breakout I remember many posters saying he wasn't good enough and multiple bratt trade scenarios being presented.

By the time of the big final contract drama those critics had long since dried up though if my memory isn’t too shoddy

 

[Hisch13r]

Yeah that matters, if they weren’t terrible we’re much closer to okay.

but we saw 63 games of Brendan Smith last year and injuries or no, that’s just unacceptable in 2024

Sure but your 6th D is not making or breaking your team when you’re well outside a playoff spot. Replace Smith with any average, hell even above average 6th D and the season barely changes.

We dont have 5.75 we have like 4.9 with cap overages ect. Yeah Id say it is still enough to get him signed short term, but long term + UFA years that mercer might want may/is driving up the prices

I don’t care if he wants long term. That wouldn’t even be on the table for me after last year. Any long term deal I’d be open too would be in the 4s which yeah he probably wouldn’t want anyway so a short deal is the only real option and we have more than enough for that.

 

[JimEIV]

4.9 is not even enough for 3 years if they want to go into the season with any sort of cushion.

If the Devils are looking to start the season with around 1M in cap space which has been reported is needed for roster movement... you're starting out the discussion with 3.9m.

Reliable projections I've seen on short term deal for Mercer is 3.75...

I'm nearly positive the organization wants around that number for three years and the Mercer camp is not interested in that number for 3 years...and most likely wants 2

Fitz: we'll do 3.75 for 3
CAA: nope, 3 years 4.5 or 3.75 for two.

There's the dilemma.

 

[MasterofGrond]

Last year for players like Bratt, Meier, Jack and Nico were poison to their careers and our window

Shortsighted, chicken little thinking.

It was not a good year. It’s hardly the end of the world. Good players lose all the time before they win.

Jack Hughes has more series wins in his first 5 years in the league than Mackinnon did. He’s tied with Ovechkin.

Eichel missed the playoffs every single season in his career (7 times!) before winning the Cup.

Barkov missed the playoffs 5 of his first 6 years, and didn’t win a series until year 9.

POISON

 

[JimEIV]

Shortsighted, chicken little thinking.

It was not a good year. It’s hardly the end of the world. Good players lose all the time before they win.

Jack Hughes has more series wins in his first 5 years in the league than Mackinnon did. He’s tied with Ovechkin.

Eichel missed the playoffs every single season in his career (7 times!) before winning the Cup.

Barkov missed the playoffs 5 of his first 6 years, and didn’t win a series until year 9.

POISON

Eichel might not be a good example...he had to run away from his floundering organization to find success....

Though, New Jersey right now is helluva lot close to Buffalo organizationally than to Colorado, Washington or Florida.

 

[AfroThunder396]

One bad contract is not the end of the world, but once you start stacking them they accumulate pretty quickly.

We already have Palat making way more than he's worth. He brings some positives to the team. But if we had two Palat deals, we almost certainly aren't keeping Bratt AND Timo last year. We'd be in a tough decision where we have to choose one or the other.

And even if we did keep one of Graves or Severson last year, what does that change? Are you suggesting Severson and his 6.25M single-handedly vault us 10 points up in the standings to make the wildcard? We still start the season with Lindy Ruff and Vitek Vanecek, Hughes and Hamilton still get injured. Nothing about the season changes in the macro sense.

Back in the day everyone wanted us to give out big contracts to Kevin Shattenkirk, Taylor Hall, etc. Imagine if we had and we were still on the hook for those players. We JUST finished paying Cory Schneider and are STILL on the hook for Kovalchuk for one more season.

 

[Triumph]

Shortsighted, chicken little thinking.

It was not a good year. It’s hardly the end of the world. Good players lose all the time before they win.

Jack Hughes has more series wins in his first 5 years in the league than Mackinnon did. He’s tied with Ovechkin.

Eichel missed the playoffs every single season in his career (7 times!) before winning the Cup.

Barkov missed the playoffs 5 of his first 6 years, and didn’t win a series until year 9.

POISON

Some people are just stuck in a 21 team league mentality - missing the playoffs is now just as common as making them, and now 25% of the league wins a round instead of ~38%.

 

[Better Call Sal]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1836450211746738358

Ok, I've reached the old man stage of life where I don't understand the silly voiceover thing going on here, but I'm happy to see these two once again.

 

[Hisch13r]

Maybe I’m in the minority here but I don’t really give a shit about just making the playoffs. I’d rather pick up a Silayev at 10OA over going into the playoffs with a team that looks like shit and is just going to get trounced anyway. Who has ever won a Cup with a “get in and see what happens” type team? I’d imagine people would say the Kings because they were the 8th seed but even they had elite metrics.

 

[JimEIV]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1836450211746738358

Ok, I've reached the old man stage of life where I don't understand the silly voiceover thing going on here, but I'm happy to see these two once again.

Was that Paris Hilton?

 

[RANDOMH3RO]

Maybe I’m in the minority here but I don’t really give a shit about just making the playoffs. I’d rather pick up a Silayev at 10OA over going into the playoffs with a team that looks like shit and is just going to get trounced anyway. Who has ever won a Cup with a “get in and see what happens” type team? I’d imagine people would say the Kings because they were the 8th seed but even they had elite metrics.

I definitely would have preferred making the playoffs even if it was a first round loss, but now with the season in the rear view it’s pretty easy to be happy with how it shook out. We all knew the defence would suffer going into the season, and then everything else also went wrong too so there was no chance anyway. So they miss and the holes are properly addressed and the team is better for it going into this season. It sucks that missing the playoffs for one bad luck season has poisoned the minds of half the fan base seemingly, but they’ll come around once this season gets on track.

 

[JimEIV]

No team goes from missing the playoffs to winning the cup. It typically takes some time to learn how compete in the playoffs for even the best teams

Missing the playoffs is without a doubt a set back for an organization looking move on to the next level.... To say otherwise is just absurd on every level.

 

[Satans Hockey]

Maybe I’m in the minority here but I don’t really give a shit about just making the playoffs. I’d rather pick up a Silayev at 10OA over going into the playoffs with a team that looks like shit and is just going to get trounced anyway. Who has ever won a Cup with a “get in and see what happens” type team? I’d imagine people would say the Kings because they were the 8th seed but even they had elite metrics.

2 appearances since 2012. I'll gladly take all the playoffs. Obviously I'd rather them go farther in the playoffs but we've done the high draft picks for long enough. I'm tired.

 

[Ripshot 43]

For kids, now.

View attachment 907728

Now I have to decide between this book and @StevenToddIves new book Even After Always… decisions decisions

 

[Billdo]

and in fact, I'd rather have Pesce + Dillon vs Severson + Graves

Samesies.

Maybe I’m in the minority here but I don’t really give a shit about just making the playoffs. I’d rather pick up a Silayev at 10OA over going into the playoffs with a team that looks like shit and is just going to get trounced anyway. Who has ever won a Cup with a “get in and see what happens” type team? I’d imagine people would say the Kings because they were the 8th seed but even they had elite metrics.

This is partly why we are in the situation we're in/have been. We spent the majority of the 2005 to 2012 seasons not being legit threats but not bottoming out enough to get those high end draft picks.

Hell, if Schneider wasn't what he was we would've had a real shot at McDavid in 2015. I know it's not really worth the debate but he was so good for three years that it hurt us in the long run.

 

[JimEIV]

That Tomas Harley deal is bad for NJ

If Harley is worth $4M for two years Mercer is easily worth closer to 5.

For cripes sake Mercer has 64 career goals... Harley has 53 career points.