Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - camp edition

[MadDevil]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1835672207558627511

Lineup with numbers:

View attachment 907259

I thought that said Andre Gigantus and was about to ask who the smartass was.

 

[NJDfan86]

Casey moving the puck very well in tight spaces.

 

[Guadana]

It's weird that so many people are willing to call Stillman a horrible pick but not McLeod....In my view, it's virtually the same type of pick with slightly varying level of magnitude in draft position and talent.

Mcleod was much better positionally, at least without the puck in neauteral zone and d zone. He wasnt really defensive monster but he was good in a draft year. Stillman played a lot like not smart player. He still has motor and average level skills with puck/ stick so who knows.
Overall Mcleod was okay to good player for his role, especially before cancellation, but as a pick he was a very bad pick. Like I said many times, Shero did very poor job on the draft, Zacha, Smith, Mcleod were really bad(Zacha was Shero pick, dont tell me fairytales he wasnt, Shero was the man who made decision) it was the same CHL oriented draft where Devils scouted really badly, which leads to fire CHL scout after another bad Stillmans pick. Shero made good decisions with 1OA twice(he was lucky to win lottery in the seasons when he tried to compete but failed), he made very good decisions with later picks and his phylosophy with picking for potential was good and worked well.
But both Mcleod and Stillman picks were bad.

 

[Zippy316]

It's weird that so many people are willing to call Stillman a horrible pick but not McLeod....In my view, it's virtually the same type of pick with slightly varying level of magnitude in draft position and talent.

I think many forget that McLeod had a big knee injury a year or so after he was drafted. Not sure how badly that affected him.

They’re both bad picks. They were mantra picks. Devils wanted to solidify their fast, attacking, and supportive mantra with McLeod and Stillman was the harder to play against.

While you should definitely have some ideal of a player to draft, you shouldn’t be basing your picks, at least in the first round, on anything except for who you think will be the BPA.

 

[JrFischer54]

as someone who hasn't followed stillman along his career post draft or even this prospect thing. whats the story he a bust or bottom line material? i get he was drafted super late 1st round but woof woof if thats the case

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

The problem I have with saying McLeod was a bad pick is unless you were banging the table saying NJ should have taken Charlie McAvoy, it's not like the 15 guys taken after him were obviously better. I think we all overrate the impact of 11th overall picks, and we especially did when the team was desperate for young talent in 2016.

In retrospect they should have gone defense, but I get the thinking with McLeod (need big fast centers) and it's a fine pick imo just based on the on ice stuff. I'm one of the posters more critical of Shero than most I'd say, and the only way I can really say McLeod was a bad pick is it was indicative of how Shero really had no vision when it came to building the defense, and only seemed to care about acquiring speedy forwards.

 

[Zippy316]

as someone who hasn't followed stillman along his career post draft or even this prospect thing. whats the story he a bust or bottom line material? i get he was drafted super late 1st round but woof woof if thats the case

To be fair, he was picked in the covid year when he barely had any playing time. He put up decent numbers in his D-1 year but only played competitively in the Denmark U20 league in his draft year.

The offensive upside was questionable even at the day of the draft. The Devils scouts likely thought he had untapped offensive potential, but that doesn’t seem to have panned out yet.

 

[JimEIV]

The problem I have with saying McLeod was a bad pick is unless you were banging the table saying NJ should have taken Charlie McAvoy, it's not like the 15 guys taken after him were obviously better. I think we all overrate the impact of 11th overall picks, and we especially did when the team was desperate for young talent in 2016.

In retrospect they should have gone defense, but I get the thinking with McLeod (need big fast centers) and it's a fine pick imo just based on the on ice stuff. I'm one of the posters more critical of Shero than most I'd say, and the only way I can really say McLeod was a bad pick is it was indicative of how Shero really had no vision when it came to building the defense, and only seemed to care about acquiring speedy forwards.

Many were banging the table for D when 8 out of the first 10 :picks went forward.

Chychrun was far and away the highest rated player on the board when it was our turn.

 

[Triumph]

Mcleod was much better positionally, at least without the puck in neauteral zone and d zone. He wasnt really defensive monster but he was good in a draft year. Stillman played a lot like not smart player. He still has motor and average level skills with puck/ stick so who knows.
Overall Mcleod was okay to good player for his role, especially before cancellation, but as a pick he was a very bad pick. Like I said many times, Shero did very poor job on the draft, Zacha, Smith, Mcleod were really bad(Zacha was Shero pick, dont tell me fairytales he wasnt, Shero was the man who made decision) it was the same CHL oriented draft where Devils scouted really badly, which leads to fire CHL scout after another bad Stillmans pick. Shero made good decisions with 1OA twice(he was lucky to win lottery in the seasons when he tried to compete but failed), he made very good decisions with later picks and his phylosophy with picking for potential was good and worked well.
But both Mcleod and Stillman picks were bad.

Zacha was not a Shero pick. Shero had just arrived in New Jersey 2 months before the draft. He certainly had some input into the pick, but he fired the head scout and some of the scouting staff (as well as a lot of the front office) after the draft.

 

[Hisch13r]

McLeod, Holtz and even Smith are worse picks for sure. Stillman was a late first rounder. Most of those guys don't make it at all.

I think where I’d differ on that is I think Holtz and Smith were defensible picks at the time that went wrong where as the others didn’t need hindsight.

 

[JimEIV]

Zacha was not a Shero pick. Shero had just arrived in New Jersey 2 months before the draft. He certainly had some input into the pick, but he fired the head scout and some of the scouting staff (as well as a lot of the front office) after the draft.

Which is kind of funny because it was probably the best non- 1OA 1st round pick we made until She got fired.

McLeod and Smith are Shero's non1st overall picks. Lol.

Two lotteries and Jesper Bratt saved us from the incompetent manner the organization was being ran.... we're still working out the neglect of the defense 4 years later

 

[Mgd31]

I think where I’d differ on that is I think Holtz and Smith were defensible picks at the time that went wrong where as the others didn’t need hindsight.

Sorry when I said bad picks, I just meant they ultimately didn't work out. Holtz and Smith were definitely both picked where they rated pre - draft.

Was McLeod really an off the board pick? I feel like rankings had him anywhere between 10-20.

I guess Stillman was as I remember he was ranked as more of a 3rd rounder.

But still regardless half those guys who get picked there don't end up having any semblance of an NHL career (less than 100 games)

 

[My3Sons]

Isley scored for NJ against Boston to make it 3-2 NJ. I wonder if it made him want to shout?

 

[TheUnseenHand]

Speed and I would add his face off attribute was one of his best qualities also...he definitely added energy to the team but is that what you want from a relatively high first round pick?

Measured against the 11th pick in the 2016 draft. McAvoy, Chychrun still on the board?

I don't remember if his faceoff prowess was a noted feature when he was drafted. Either way, I think a lot of folks would agree that, at the time, it was a bad pick. Even in retrospect with what he became, while important to the team, it was a mediocre pick at best.

 

[Hisch13r]

lol Casey was everywhere that shift

 

[Zippy316]

Crossing my fingers he’s just a warm body for camp, but the Welinski PTO makes me feel like something might be up with Nemec.

Has there been any word on his status other than coming to NJ to get evaluated last week?

 

[Hisch13r]

Crossing my fingers he’s just a warm body for camp, but the Welinski PTO makes me feel like something might be up with Nemec.

Has there been any word on his status other than coming to NJ to get evaluated last week?

I mean we already have 2 extra bodies on the right side between Kovacevic and DeSimone (possibly Casey too). I’m not reading into that one. Especially when we have 3 games after the main team leaves for Prague. They need extra vets this year

 

[dgibb10]

Michael McLeod as a hockey player was a success for a 1st round pick

I'd trade a 1st round pick today in a heartbeat to get a clone of McLeod on this team without the off ice issues

 

[Better Call Sal]

I'm really rooting hard for Stillman to carve out a role for us. So many people have written him off already before he's even gotten a chance in the show. I know the odds of him amounting to more than a bottom 6 role are slim, but I'd like to see what he officially offers before labeling him as a bust.

 

[JimEIV]

I don't remember if his faceoff prowess was a noted feature when he was drafted. Either way, I think a lot of folks would agree that, at the time, it was a bad pick. Even in retrospect with what he became, while important to the team, it was a mediocre pick at best.

His face off ability was noted predraft. Here is a quote from McKeen's

"McLeod's work ethic, faceoff prowess, defence, size, and speed are all strong indicators he'll be an effective third-line center..."

2016 NHL Draft Guide: Michael McLeod

2016 NHL Draft Guide: Michael McLeod

www.mckeenshockey.com

 

[Bleedred]

Didn't people want us to trade for Labanc at one point?

Yes but that was a longggggg time ago. Probably around 2018 or 2019 I was pushing for it.

He’s been pretty whatever since 19-20. After he took that huge discount for only a million for one year to help the Sharks cap situation out.

He’s also a local-ish guy from Staten Island.

I wonder if he was at the facilities skating in the offseason like many of the local guys.

 

[Mgd31]

And Stillman just got hurt lol. Poor guy, I hope its nothing too serious.

 

[MasterofGrond]

Holt and Smith are probably worse though?

I would agree with that, yeah

 

[Better Call Sal]

Jack Malone with the redirect! Woot!

 

[Nico Hischier]

Yes but that was a longggggg time ago. Probably around 2018 or 2019 I was pushing for it.

He’s been pretty whatever since 19-20. After he took that huge discount for only a million for one year to help the Sharks cap situation out.

He’s also a local-ish guy from Staten Island.

I wonder if he was at the facilities skating in the offseason like many of the local guys.

I remember I was shocked when he signed that 1 year 1 mil deal at the time