Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2023 offseason part II

[Eggtimer]

Don't remotely care about "grit."

Toffoli is a better hockey player than Bertuzzi and a better fit. We were severely lacking a right shot forward and the last four seasons, Toffoli's been a 30 goal, 60 point per 82 player.

We should absolutely care about grit . We outskill the Canes but lost to them because we lacked the ability to generate offence by getting to the middle of the ice more consistently and losing board battles and one on one battles too often .
I’m not saying we should have got Bertuzzi instead of Toffoli ( who knows if Bertuzzi would even consider coming here plus he will get overpaid . Plus we lose out on Toffoli while waiting to see if we can sign Bertuzzi ) . I’m saying we need to somehow add a little bit more battle to the lineup . Someone that is fast on the forecheck / transition game plus can play along the boards effectively

 

[TrufleShufle]

We should absolutely care about grit . We outskill the Canes but lost to them because we lacked the ability to generate offence by getting to the middle of the ice more consistently and losing board battles and one on one battles too often .
I’m not saying we should have got Bertuzzi instead of Toffoli ( who knows if Bertuzzi would even consider coming here plus he will get overpaid . Plus we lose out on Toffoli while waiting to see if we can sign Bertuzzi ) . I’m saying we need to somehow add a little bit more battle to the lineup . Someone that is fast on the forecheck / transition game plus can play along the boards effectively

INB4 someone dumbs down everything you said into "HiTz"

 

[beekay414]

We should absolutely care about grit . We outskill the Canes but lost to them because we lacked the ability to generate offence by getting to the middle of the ice more consistently and losing board battles and one on one battles too often .
I’m not saying we should have got Bertuzzi instead of Toffoli ( who knows if Bertuzzi would even consider coming here plus he will get overpaid . Plus we lose out on Toffoli while waiting to see if we can sign Bertuzzi ) . I’m saying we need to somehow add a little bit more battle to the lineup . Someone that is fast on the forecheck / transition game plus can play along the boards effectively

I certainly don't care about grit as a "skill" nor as a catch-all phrase. The simple fact is you get harder to play against by getting better and we got better by adding something that was drastically missing from the top 6 (a true right shot goal scorer - sorry Dawson). Between Meier, Mercer and Toffoli and Nico (who isn't a soft player no matter how many people want to say it), we have several guys that play heavier than they get credit for. It was our first run in the playoffs with a young team against a team that's been there before. I'm not worried about "grit" more so than I am about talent and fit. Toffoli fits like a glove both in the locker room and on the ice.

We also played that series with like half-Timo. We have to learn how to win and that was a learning experience. If it becomes a recurring problem, then get back to me about "grit."

 

[forceten]

Here's an interesting thought, if Luke and Nemac, possibly Holtz make the jump next year, do we theoretically go from one of the best prospect pools in the league to the worst?

It doesn't matter, we are locked and loaded more than any team I can think of both in talent and time, but it is interesting to think about. We hopefully have more than enough time to restock the cupboards before needing anything out of them again. I'm just curious to see the league team prospect pool ratings half way through next year.

I've wondered the same thing - and include that we've traded several out too.

 

[TrufleShufle]

I certainly don't care about grit as a "skill" nor as a catch-all phrase. The simple fact is you get harder to play against by getting better and we got better by adding something that was drastically missing from the top 6 (a true right shot goal scorer - sorry Dawson). Between Meier, Mercer and Toffoli and Nico (who isn't a soft player no matter how many people want to say it), we have several guys that play heavier than they get credit for. It was our first run in the playoffs with a young team against a team that's been there before. I'm not worried about "grit" more so than I am about talent and fit. Toffoli fits like a glove both in the locker room and on the ice.

I have said for years Nico doesn't get enough credit for his battle. If there is a board battle and Nico is in it, doesn't matter how many guys and what number of colored jerseys are around, it's a safe bet that Nico will get the puck to a favorable spot.

What you are saying is true, but the other side can and is also true. Bottom line, if everyone on the team kept the exact skill they had but all played the exact way Mercer does, I would mortgage my house to bet on a Devils cup.

 

[beekay414]

Here's an interesting thought, if Luke and Nemac, possibly Holtz make the jump next year, do we theoretically go from one of the best prospect pools in the league to the worst?

Don't know about "the worst" but you'd still have Gritsyuk, Casey, Filmon, Vilen, Hauser, Barabosha, Edwards, Leddy and the 2023 guys. I'm sure I'm missing some others too.

 

[TrufleShufle]

Don't know about "the worst" but you'd still have Gritsyuk, Casey, Filmon, Vilen, Hauser, Barabosha, Edwards, Leddy and the 2023 guys. I'm sure I'm missing some others too.

Should have said "one of the worst." Top 5 to bottom 5-10.

 

[Its Always Sundstrom]

Don't know about "the worst" but you'd still have Gritsyuk, Casey, Filmon, Vilen, Hauser, Barabosha, Edwards, Leddy and the 2023 guys. I'm sure I'm missing some others too.

The Zohan…

 

[beekay414]

I have said for years Nico doesn't get enough credit for his battle. If there is a board battle and Nico is in it, doesn't matter how many guys and what number of colored jerseys are around, it's a safe bet that Nico will get the puck to a favorable spot.

What you are saying is true, but the other side can and is also true. Bottom line, if everyone on the team kept the exact skill they had but all played the exact way Mercer does, I would mortgage my house to bet on a Devils cup.

Sure, we're not a perfect team by any means and could use guys that are difficult to play against. I just think it's overstated at this point. It's not a problem until it truly becomes one. Gotta learn how to win in this league and our boys went from the 2nd pick to the Final 8 and the 4th best record in hockey practically overnight. Let's see what they can do with a full-time Timo, Toffoli in the mix and a healthy Palat (oh and some kid named Luke for a full season).

 

[Zippy316]

Depends on what his ask is and if the Devils think there’s better options available. There’s 9 forwards who are signed, McLeod and Bastian have chemistry and add some physicality which should mean two other spots locked in. Assuming they expect one of the Utica forwards to win a spot, you’re left with one opening.

I don’t think Boqvist is a bad player but I also don’t think he’s done enough to cement himself either. If there’s a better alternative on the market it could just be a case of him getting squeezed out due to competition.

There’s two spots open even with resigning Boqvist, McLeod, and Bastian. I wouldn’t hesitate to have Boqvist be the extra forward if Foote and Holtz are both ready.

I just don’t see what you would sign as a UFA being better than Boqvist for this team. Plus you can give him a deal that goes straight to UFA so he can try to be competitive on this team and cash in.

I also partially like Boqvist as an injury backup option at center. If injuries strike, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Boqvist succeed higher up the lineup in a pinch especially with how strong our wings are.

 

[beekay414]

Should have said "one of the worst." Top 5 to bottom 5-10.

Sure but, as you said, that'll happen when you graduate two blue chip dmen and a potential top 6 winger.

 

[TrufleShufle]

Sure, we're not a perfect team by any means and could use guys that are difficult to play against. I just think it's overstated at this point. It's not a problem until it truly becomes one. Gotta learn how to win in this league and our boys went from the 2nd pick to the Final 8 and the 4th best record in hockey practically overnight. Let's see what they can do with a full-time Timo, Toffoli in the mix and a healthy Palat (oh and some kid named Luke for a full season).

Idk, like anything on this board, just bringing it up makes it "overstated." We aren't the hardest working team in the league, and that's ok, but it's also ok to talk about ways to address it if possible. We are in an amazing spot and there is no one here that would deny it, but if you aren't thinking of ways the team could still be better, what's the point of these boards?

 

[beekay414]

Idk, like anything on this board, just bringing it up makes it "overstated." We aren't the hardest working team in the league, and that's ok, but it's also ok to talk about ways to address it if possible. We are in an amazing spot and there is no one here that would deny it, but if you aren't thinking of ways the team could still be better, what's the point of these boards?

I mean, I'm a part-timer on this forum and if I'm saying that the whole grit conversation is overstated then, well, that's gotta mean something right? (or not, I'm just a nobody lol)

I see it constantly when I make the decision to pop my head in. We r smol boyz has been a constant topic of discussion, both draft and team related for a while now. I don't disagree that you can always use it but you also don't just chase down grit for the sake of grit. Fit matters. Not trying to drag the poster Nico Hischier into this but someone like Bertuzzi likely doesn't fit the culture of this team nor really on the ice (he'd be another left shot forward and really doesn't offer much in the way of defense). Toffoli, while not a grit and grind type, still plays a heavy and smart game. Dude knows how to play playoff hockey. That's far more invaluable than just adding a grit player and Fitzy knows that.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

We should absolutely care about grit . We outskill the Canes but lost to them because we lacked the ability to generate offence by getting to the middle of the ice more consistently and losing board battles and one on one battles too often .
I’m not saying we should have got Bertuzzi instead of Toffoli ( who knows if Bertuzzi would even consider coming here plus he will get overpaid . Plus we lose out on Toffoli while waiting to see if we can sign Bertuzzi ) . I’m saying we need to somehow add a little bit more battle to the lineup . Someone that is fast on the forecheck / transition game plus can play along the boards effectively

I don’t agree. We lost because we really had trouble with clean breakouts and getting to our game. We were also pretty gassed as a young team not used to long playoff runs. Also, our most important offense D was playing with one hand.

The biggest thing was really that the Canes, who are a horrendous finishing team, were very much not that against us.

 

[TrufleShufle]

I mean, I'm a part-timer on this forum and if I'm saying that the whole grit conversation is overstated then, well, that's gotta mean something right? (or not, I'm just a nobody lol)

I see it constantly when I make the decision to pop my head in. We r smol boyz has been a constant topic of discussion, both draft and team related for a while now. I don't disagree that you can always use it but you also don't just chase down grit for the sake of grit. Fit matters. Not trying to drag the poster Nico Hischier into this but someone like Bertuzzi likely doesn't fit the culture of this team nor really on the ice (he'd be another left shot forward and really doesn't offer much in the way of defense). Toffoli, while not a grit and grind type, still plays a heavy and smart game. Dude knows how to play playoff hockey. That's far more invaluable than just adding a grit player and Fitzy knows that.

Not really, you aren't a nobody but I still don't think it means anything.

Fitz built an amazing team, there isn't much left to cry about. Harder to play against and goalies that give the team confidence is really it. Great problem to have.

Shitty windshield wipers on a brand new Lambo mean a lot more to that owner than shitty wipers on a 97 honda civic that wont start without a screwdriver.

 

[Lou Bloom]

There’s two spots open even with resigning Boqvist, McLeod, and Bastian. I wouldn’t hesitate to have Boqvist be the extra forward if Foote and Holtz are both ready.

I just don’t see what you would sign as a UFA being better than Boqvist for this team. Plus you can give him a deal that goes straight to UFA so he can try to be competitive on this team and cash in.

I also partially like Boqvist as an injury backup option at center. If injuries strike, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Boqvist succeed higher up the lineup in a pinch especially with how strong our wings are.

We’re talking about a player that got benched for half the playoffs. Carolina found players like Fast, Martinook and Noesen For nothing and they were much more impactful than someone like Boqvist.

And that’s not to say he shouldn't be in the conversation for the roster but he’s certainly not done enough to be considered a lock.

 

[Eggtimer]

Outshot, out attempted, lost the xGF battle, would be nice to have had a goalie keep us in a game or two, but the better team won that series.

Yes we got outplayed .Look at that Canes roster and tell me they were more skilled than us . Not by a long shot . It was because the Canes had a more well rounded roster that could win board battles more often and gain the middle of the jvr than we could . Call it what you want , but “ grit “ is absolutely a must if guy want to win . Finding the right combination of skill and grit is key . If a player doesn’t have grit , then you need to offset that with players that do . Best case is players with both grit and skill like Meier is . Since Bratt and others are not that , we need to have guys compliment them better. Hopefully the Toffoli’s Mercers Palats can do that well enough .

 

[TheUnseenHand]

You can't overreact with grit though, IMO. Because the other factor that I think plays more of a role is simply experience. That was the first taste of the playoffs for a lot of the key players on that roster.

 

[Clam Jensen]

You can't overreact with grit though, IMO. Because the other factor that I think plays more of a role is simply experience. That was the first taste of the playoffs for a lot of the key players on that roster.

You overreact with grit and you become the rangers and get a GM fired

 

[Oneiro]

Managing the puck well while being a warrior in 50/50 situations - that's what I think of as grit / 'tough to play against' and we were the best at it for 15 years. I think you can always use those kind of players but I also think the ones you want - Stone, Cirelli, Lekhonen, prime Coleman, etc. - are rare and you're better off drafting them. The trade cost is substantial, as we know.

I do not give a shit about guys like Bertuzzi, Wood or even Wilson, who's actually pretty good. Their value is largely anecdotal.

 

[Devs3cups]

 

[NjdevilfanJim]

Looking at the pool of free agent d-men, I am not sure what we do with it. Anyone have any ideas? I saw some mention Gudas but I think he will be out of price range. I also think Smith is a huge liability, and am actually more worried about the left side than right.

I am more comfortable with Nemec in the top 6 getting 15 minutes with a experienced partner than I am with Luke/Bahl/Smith rotating.

Schenn or Clifton

 

[NjdevilfanJim]

Plus we have guys that can do that. Mikey and Bastian can be pests. Hell Timo was a MASSIVE physical pest in the playoffs. Dude is a bull and other teams hated him for it.

Really I thought Shesty was TIMO'S biggest fan...

This whole conversation ignores the fact that 40 point players don’t go on the 4th line. Haula is a good player and should be getting important minutes, that’s what he’s there for.

Best thing is he is capable of playing up and down that's his real value extremely versatile player....

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

Am I remembering the wrong player? As in, Tofolli being a pretty heavy, interior type player. Not a power forward or anything but definitely not a soft perimeter player. Solid defensively too.

Full year of him + Meier, and probably a bit heavier in the bottom 6, is going to make a big difference in that area.

 

[KovalchukFistPump]

Bertuzzi is a UFA. He is not an option for this team as he would hamper the cap structure, particularly after this year.

The question about the Toffoli trade was whether the resources and cap space were better used on a defense 1-year rental (or a goalie). But I guess the team is banking on LHughes being good right away, Bahl continuing to be a solid defender, and Nemec maybe being close to ready to contribute by the playoffs.