Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2023-24 season part III

[Omar Little]

Where are you watching winning boards battles stats?

Just watching the game, no website or anything

 

[Its Always Sundstrom]

 

[Lou Bloom]

I don't understand the Kahkonen love. He had an even worse season than Vanecek's current season just last year. I don't think there's any indication that he's an improvement from what we already have.

 

[devilsblood]

Lol Schmid and Daws are both capable of looking great for a few games. I definitely want one of them as our backup for 20-25 games and to see if they can grow into a larger role later. But depending on them for a playoff run is asking for trouble, as we found out in the Carolina series.

Even for as short as it is, this run by Daws is the best we've from a Devils goalie this year.

I'm talking about given a chance post system tweak...come on

That's fair, Vitek too though.

I don't think it's as big a deal as we make out. Daws was great last night, not the system, especially in that 2nd period.

 

[devilsblood]

I don't understand the Kahkonen love. He had an even worse season than Vanecek's current season just last year. I don't think there's any indication that he's an improvement from what we already have.

It's not Kahkonnen love really, it's looking at an option who won't, or shouldn't, cost a ton, either in terms of trade assets, or contract.

And aside from last year he's been OK.

I'd also say last year the Sharks were tough on goalies.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

That's fair, Vitek too though.

I don't think it's as big a deal as we make out. Daws was great last night, not the system, especially in that 2nd period.

Vitek did get a chance...huh? He was ok. He is what he is, an average goalie who can look great some nights but inconsistent and fundamentally flawed.

Daws looked decent and most definitely not this good before the change. It's 100% the system tweaks.

 

[Lou Bloom]

It's not Kahkonnen love really, it's looking at an option who won't, or shouldn't, cost a ton, either in terms of trade assets, or contract.

And aside from last year he's been OK.

I'd also say last year the Sharks were tough on goalies.

And apart from this season Vanecek has been OK. In fact his career numbers are better than Kahkonen's. Just seems like a move for the sake of making a move rather than an actual upgrade.

 

[Normal Devil]

I don't understand the Kahkonen love. He had an even worse season than Vanecek's current season just last year. I don't think there's any indication that he's an improvement from what we already have.

Yeah, Kahk's not very good. A trade for him doesn't move the needle much at all.

 

[devilsblood]

Vitek did get a chance...huh? He was ok. He is what he is, an average goalie who can look great some nights but inconsistent and fundamentally flawed.

Daws looked decent and most definitely not this good before the change. It's 100% the system tweaks.

Daws made 3 of the highest difficulty saves we've seen all year against the Kings.

Could have easily lost that one 4-1, or even 5-1.

He was bombarded in the 2nd last night. Daws played great.

Vitek has been letting up some ridiculous softies this year.

And apart from this season Vanecek has been OK. In fact his career numbers are better than Kahkonen's. Just seems like a move for the sake of making a move rather than an actual upgrade.

Fair, but before this recent run by Daws, we needed someone even if we kept Vitek.

Kahkonen talk goes away if Daws and Vitek go on a run.

 

[Normal Devil]

Vitek did get a chance...huh? He was ok. He is what he is, an average goalie who can look great some nights but inconsistent and fundamentally flawed.

Daws looked decent and most definitely not this good before the change. It's 100% the system tweaks.

Daws has kind of solidified himself as a decent #2 option behind a true #1. Time to acquire that #1. VV should be shot into the sun as soon as possible. Schmid has regressed and should be in the minors.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Vitek did get a chance...huh? He was ok. He is what he is, an average goalie who can look great some nights but inconsistent and fundamentally flawed.

Daws looked decent and most definitely not this good before the change. It's 100% the system tweaks.

The system thing is just a ridiculous explanation for what is happening with the goalies. Vitek would’ve given up 4 in the 2nd period where we got absolutely shelled worse than we have all season. And Daws stood on his head against the Kings making saves that would belong on Marty’s highlight reel.

 

[JimEIV]

The system thing is just a ridiculous explanation for what is happening with the goalies. Vitek would’ve given up 4 in the 2nd period where we got absolutely shelled worse than we have all season. And Daws stood on his head against the Kings making saves that would belong on Marty’s highlight reel.

Vitek wouldn't have had a 3-1 lead this season.

 

[My3Sons]

And apart from this season Vanecek has been OK. In fact his career numbers are better than Kahkonen's. Just seems like a move for the sake of making a move rather than an actual upgrade.

I don’t think anyone views Kahkonen as a long or even medium term solution in goal but he is playing ok this season on a bad team and he will likely be somewhat better on NJ. If he can be added for a modest price he gets the team to the end of the season and they can reassess goalies then.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Vitek wouldn't have had a 3-1 lead this season.

He’s gotten massive goal support. Which is why his record is what it is.

 

[devilsblood]

Vitek wouldn't have had a 3-1 lead this season.

We took that 3-1 lead late in the 2nd.

So you are right, Vitek would have allowed multiple goals in the 2nd before Smith scored to make it 3-1.

 

[JimEIV]

He’s gotten massive goal support. Which is why his record is what it is.

We're bottom 10 team in the league in "time with a lead"

 

[Lou Bloom]

I don’t think anyone views Kahkonen as a long or even medium term solution in goal but he is playing ok this season on a bad team and he will likely be somewhat better on NJ. If he can be added for a modest price he gets the team to the end of the season and they can reassess goalies then.

He's been okay over a 26 game sample size this season, but he was one of the worst goalies in the league over a 37 game sample size last season. I just don't get the logic of paying assets for a player that doesn't solidify the position and doesn't move the needle. Would you really feel more confident in this team if they had Kahkonen in net vs Vanecek or Daws?

 

[devilsblood]

We're bottom 10 team in the league in "time with a lead"

Which will happen when the goalie let's in softie goals early in games.

He's been okay over a 26 game sample size this season, but he was one of the worst goalies in the league over a 37 game sample size last season. I just don't get the logic of paying assets for a player that doesn't solidify the position and doesn't move the needle. Would you really feel more confident in this team if they had Kahkonen in net vs Vanecek or Daws?

If VV is one of the worst goalies in the league this year, then Kahk's .905 is a move of the needle......for not a ton in cost.

And with goalie's you have to factor in play at the moment. Vitek might be better overall but Kahk is better this year, which when trying to get into this years playoffs, is important.

 

[PizzaAndPucks]

Today should be a day where the Devils and thier fans just relax mentally and enjoy the win from last night. This season hasn't been as good as we expected to so far but we need to be happy they all showed up last night. It was a night to remember.

 

[Better Call Sal]

He's been okay over a 26 game sample size this season, but he was one of the worst goalies in the league over a 37 game sample size last season. I just don't get the logic of paying assets for a player that doesn't solidify the position and doesn't move the needle. Would you really feel more confident in this team if they had Kahkonen in net vs Vanecek or Daws?

The assets for Kahkonen are likely not going to be that costly, even in a goalie market like this where the sellers have the buyers by the balls in a lot of ways.

I would rather take a shot at Kahkonen the way he has played this year vs. playing Vanecek again. It pains me to say it, given he seems like a genuinely great guy, but I have no confidence in trotting him out for another start. Given Daws recent stretch, if you can bring in a Kahkonen or Jake Allen and try to run with them as a tandem, I think you have a better chance of finishing the year strong then if you stand pat and attempt to play Vanecek in any more games. His confidence level, and the team's with him in net, have to be at an all-time low. And that's still considering he had his best start of the season before getting hurt.

 

[My3Sons]

He's been okay over a 26 game sample size this season, but he was one of the worst goalies in the league over a 37 game sample size last season. I just don't get the logic of paying assets for a player that doesn't solidify the position and doesn't move the needle. Would you really feel more confident in this team if they had Kahkonen in net vs Vanecek or Daws?

I want to give Daws a chance. But I think some of iwhat makes support for a guy like a Kahkonen is “anyone but Vitek”. There is little risk or commitment to a Kahkonen. Just a stop gap to hopefully win enough games to make the playoffs.

This whole discussion is frustrating. The team made some defensive adjustments that seem to have helped on some level but why wait 50 games and it’s been apparent Vitek has been struggling for a while. We will never know what the better version of thr season could have held but it’s still iffy that they make the playoffs and it’s hard to see a team with two 20 year old defenders leading the way making any noise in the playoffs anyway. Is Jack going to be at 75% the rest of the way? Just so much what if for this season.

 

[devilsblood]

The assets for Kahkonen are likely not going to be that costly, even in a goalie market like this where the sellers have the buyers by the balls in a lot of ways.

I would rather take a shot at Kahkonen the way he has played this year vs. playing Vanecek again. It pains me to say it, given he seems like a genuinely great guy, but I have no confidence in trotting him out for another start. Given Daws recent stretch, if you can bring in a Kahkonen or Jake Allen and try to run with them as a tandem, I think you have a better chance of finishing the year strong then if you stand pat and attempt to play Vanecek in any more games. His confidence level, and the team's with him in net, have to be at an all-time low. And that's still considering he had his best start of the season before getting hurt.

If we are going into the final couple months, and Vitek plays like he has all season, and we are forced to lean heavily on a rookie 15 games back from hip surgery? Doesn't sound like good player mgmt.

 

[JimEIV]

Which will happen when the goalie let's in softie goals early in games.

That might be true...but it's hard to argue the guy is getting "goal support"

 

[devilsblood]

I want to give Daws a chance. But I think some of iwhat makes support for a guy like a Kahkonen is “anyone but Vitek”. There is little risk or commitment to a Kahkonen. Just a stop gap to hopefully win enough games to make the playoffs.

This whole discussion is frustrating. The team made some defensive adjustments that seem to have helped on some level but why wait 50 games and it’s been apparent Vitek has been struggling for a while. We will never know what the better version of thr season could have held but it’s still iffy that they make the playoffs and it’s hard to see a team with two 20 year old defenders leading the way making any noise in the playoffs anyway. Is Jack going to be at 75% the rest of the way? Just so much what if for this season.

I'd still be a bit disappointed in this season if we get in and lose in rnd 1.

But I'll be real disappointed in this season if we don't make it at all.

I think making a run at the end of this season to earn a spot is important.

 

[Lou Bloom]

Which will happen when the goalie let's in softie goals early in games.


If VV is one of the worst goalies in the league this year, then Kahk's .905 is a move of the needle......for not a ton in cost.

And with goalie's you have to factor in play at the moment. Vitek might be better overall but Kahk is better this year, which when trying to get into this years playoffs, is important.

We're talking about predicting what they'll do moving forward, not what their current stats are. Do you actually think that Kahkonen is a better goalie than Saros, Shesterkin and Vasilevskiy because he currently has a better save percentage this season?

Vanecek with the Devils: .903 SV%, -3.7 GSAA over 84 games.
Kahkonen with the Sharks: .895 SV% -23 GSAA over 74 games.

Over a larger sample size Vanecek has been a clearly better goaltender than Kahkonen in a similar time frame. People are just getting caught in the moment with Vanecek's poor play, there's zero reason to think Kahkonen is an improvement unless you choose to believe in short sample size noise vs a larger sample size.