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Prospect Info: Devils Picking 4th Overall, Part II
- Thread starter NJ Fan 12
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In light of Hughes' comments that he'd be happy to go to any of the 32 teams my guess is BUF drafts him at 1 since they have reason to believe he will sign an ELC rather than self immolate.
Guadana
Registered User
The problem is how Edvinsson could look in USHL. He did all offensive things year before. And as I watched him, he is good puckhandling player and play very well with the puck. Passes - yes, he is in out of control. But he is much better in defensive zone. He makes mistakes but he is an active defensive player. Hughes is not, he is passive defensive player, and he is completly disaster if you put him in SHL\Allsvenskan.
I dont know circumstances of why Edvinsson wasnt play pp role in junior team, but he change 3 squads\leagues per year, he was on covid lists as I remember, and managed his season with travel. And if you will remember u-20 and u-18 sweden squads didn`t look well both.
Edvinsson is much better prospect with much better ceiling and little risks. Because he need to fix passing under pressure and shooting. Hughes produce enough but he has a ton to fix in his game. And his trump doesnt work against Edvinssov, because Edvinsson is great skater too.
I will not take games from alssvenskan to disassemble, where edvinsson team was good and he was good, where he makes good moves at both ends and his team win it. I`m takin a game where Edvinsson team fvcked up. To show how he makes his job well and how bad you are when trying to refer on it.
canada 8-1 sweden
6-49 This is how he work with his body and close gaps. against Clarke btw
20-03 Stick work
22-34 easy thing to protect the partner. how often Hughes did make it.
26-00 Edvinsson against Guenther. He did it ok, sweden partners? nope
26-18 tell me how a guy like Clarke and especially Hughes are better defensemen
27-45 yeah. some hightlights, thanks
for this moment of the game edvinsson didnt make any mistake, make two or three entrance and lost the puck because because was covered by 2 canada players, no help from partners, full sweden squad cant build offensive game. covid? coach? I dont know. Best two attacks begin from his pass and one of his zone entrance
29-40 physic dominance
32-40 takeaway
33-33 save the puck in offensive zone in pp. interesting pp. does edvinsson was lookin bad? nope/
36-15 forechecking. body work and stick work in the short moment
37-09 Edvinsson against Guenther
37-22 first mistake. his partner was goin to defense and he should stay on the slot in this moment. and then good body work
38-53. This is how he can work with the puck
47-59 stick work
52-00 create offense
56-55 another pp where edvinsson did everything right
59-20 stick work to trying to save the puck in offensive zone. another time when his partners didnt help him against two opponents.
1-00-38 board battle
1-06-10 pass right into the slot
1-08-37 is it his mistake or team missclick? and what was goin after. no goal, but this team wasnt clickin. and as we will see after - there are no problem in Edvinsson
1-11-29 same move, different result
1-11-58 board battle
1-14-55 makin mistake and neutralize it right after
1-15-10 board play in the corner of blue line
1-15-37 zone entrance
1-19-30 skating, passing and body work to neutralize player when he has partner from the back
1-28-40 gap control
1-29-05 offensive move and than his comeback. If bedard did make a pass - he have to cover it. Anyway Olsson and goalie did fvcked up.
1-32-20 I think he must create pressure here but their full line didnt make it and if he will make a pressure it would have ended with a pass into the opened zone and the Canadians would have scored.
1-37-15 skating that helps to make a safe play
1-38-12 puck racing, puck protection and neutralization. awesome moment against two canadian players.
1-41-20 makin play to safe the puck in offensive zone
1-41-35 - create offense.
1-41-59 - he is still on the ice, he broke the stick and solve the problem by his tools he have
1-42-20 - legs is an option too
1-42-25 - he returned with the stick and neutralize canadian offense. sweden didnt work without him. he is the батя here.
1-43-54 - body work and celan the slot
1-46-53 - Edvinsson against THREE canadian player
1-47-52 - clean the slot. and right after swdish goalie lose the puck after viewable shot.
1-55-52 7th goal of canada. What he actually could do here? And what did olsson do? He was been baaad all game long.
1-59-18 - board battle
1-59-54 - pokechecking, neutralize canadian offense
2-00-12 - 2-00-23 gap control, body work
This was a freakin 1-8 against Canada. And Edvinsson waas lookin like a best player even in disaster game for defense. Everywhere he could make something to save - he did. Only one of his moves was ended with dangerous chance. In the game where canada create 56 shots! And he create some offense.
Lysell over Edvinsson. My God. Lysell was on the ice every time in this game. I could agree that the 4th number is too high for Edvinsson, despite his obvious talent and good defensive play, which significantly distinguishes him from his peers. But 18? Even in the two games with Canada Edvinsson made mistakes, but the whole team did not work. And they, like the U-20 team, looked weak. But when he played against Guenther personally, Edvinsson worked well against Guenther and looked head and shoulders better than him, both physically and in the game against him. Canada managed 20 goals in those two games and Guenther didnt score. Edvinsson worked well against anyone and didnt lose in battles.
Even after this disaster game for sweden you can easily see why you are takin Edvinsson in top-5 over Guenther, over Lysell, over Hughes, who couldn't even come close to being able to endure such pressure.
The story about his lack of offense is a lie. He was pretty productive year before. Yes, he wasnt this year when he play against men. j-20 problems? ok, he is ppg allsvenskan best u-18 defenseman in the past 5 years. second best in ten years. So what?
Right in this game we can see great flashes of his offensive potential. We couldnt see how Hughes can play in this swedish roster against canada. He didnt play with usa against canada or russia. It would be hallerious to see how he could play against wright, bedard, mitchkov. Hughes and Edvinsson are nowhere close.
This is a serious mistake, Steven. And in your delusion, you are deluding other people. Edvinsson is what he actully is. He is sweden defenseman with good skating. But with great defensive abulity, bodywork and understanding the gap. He isn`t Broberg. He is "why we didnt draft him? Because he didnt produce in adult leagues in covid year when he was 17 yo guy?" guy. Like Power, he is close to have a floor to be top-4 guy, and ceiling to be best defenseman of the team. Hughes has a floor to be 3rd pairing pp specialist and ceiling to be 1st pair pp specialist, who will not play in hard minutes against top-players. If you want to draft #4 you must draft the player with better ceiling and better floor.
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This actually illustrates my point. Clarke led all defensemen in scoring at the U-18 tournament and took a huge jump between his 17 and 18 year old seasons. It also bears note that, since the 2019-20 season was ended early due to the pandemic, Clarke was actually 16 years old for most of the season. There is good reason to believe that in a full OHL season this year, he would have scored over 70 points.
As I've said, a better comparison for Clarke would be Samuel Girard. In his 17-year old QMJHL season, Girard scored:
64: 5-38-43
As an 18 year old in his draft-eligible campaign? Girard did this:
67: 10-64-74
Those are the type of numbers I would have expected from Clarke in Barrie this year, and it also bears noting that Clarke is a better 200-foot player than Girard was in his draft-eligible campaign.
There are a lot of reasons for this. I would say foremost is that Holtz's shot has always been elite level for his age, and as a 15 or 16 year old goalies on that level just can't even come close to stopping NHL-caliber puck blasts. I would have to consider Eklund a higher level prospect at the same age, because he's just a more complete player in every respect. But Holtz is a pretty good player in that respect, too. They're both tremendous prospects, but they're very different players.
It's tough to guess what a franchise which has been so poor all throughout the front office will do.
I'm hearing a lot that they are leaning towards trading Eichel to Anaheim so they can get that #3 overall pick and get both Power at #1 and Eklund at #3. But these are just rumors, and again it's tough to tell what teams with weak front offices will do.
The problem is how Edvinsson could look in USHL. He did all offensive things year before. And as I watched him, he is good puckhandling player and play very well with the puck. Passes - yes, he is in out of control. But he is much better in defensive zone. He makes mistakes but he is an active defensive player. Hughes is not, he is passive defensive player, and he is completly disaster if you put him in SHL\Allsvenskan.
I dont know circumstances of why Edvinsson wasnt play pp role in junior team, but he change 3 squads\leagues per year, he was on covid lists as I remember, and managed his season with travel. And if you will remember u-20 and u-18 sweden squads didn`t look well both.
Edvinsson is much better prospect with much better ceiling and little risks. Because he need to fix passing under pressure and shooting. Hughes produce enough but he has a ton to fix in his game. And his trump doesnt work against Edvinssov, because Edvinsson is great skater too.
I will not take games from alssvenskan to disassemble, where edvinsson team was good and he was good, where he makes good moves at both ends and his team win it. I`m takin a game where Edvinsson team fvcked up. To show how he makes his job well and how bad you are when trying to refer on it.
canada 8-1 sweden
6-49 This is how he work with his body and close gaps. against Clarke btw
20-03 Stick work
22-34 easy thing to protect the partner. how often Hughes did make it.
26-00 Edvinsson against Guenther. He did it ok, sweden partners? nope
26-18 tell me how a guy like Clarke and especially Hughes are better defensemen
27-45 yeah. some hightlights, thanks
for this moment of the game edvinsson didnt make any mistake, make two or three entrance and lost the puck because because was covered by 2 canada players, no help from partners, full sweden squad cant build offensive game. covid? coach? I dont know. Best two attacks begin from his pass and one of his zone entrance
29-40 physic dominance
32-40 takeaway
33-33 save the puck in offensive zone in pp. interesting pp. does edvinsson was lookin bad? nope/
36-15 forechecking. body work and stick work in the short moment
37-09 Edvinsson against Guenther
37-22 first mistake. his partner was goin to defense and he should stay on the slot in this moment. and then good body work
38-53. This is how he can work with the puck
47-59 stick work
52-00 create offense
56-55 another pp where edvinsson did everything right
59-20 stick work to trying to save the puck in offensive zone. another time when his partners didnt help him against two opponents.
1-00-38 board battle
1-06-10 pass right into the slot
1-08-37 is it his mistake or team missclick? and what was goin after. no goal, but this team wasnt clickin. and as we will see after - there are no problem in Edvinsson
1-11-29 same move, different result
1-11-58 board battle
1-14-55 makin mistake and neutralize it right after
1-15-10 board play in the corner of blue line
1-15-37 zone entrance
1-19-30 skating, passing and body work to neutralize player when he has partner from the back
1-28-40 gap control
1-29-05 offensive move and than his comeback. If bedard did make a pass - he have to cover it. Anyway Olsson and goalie did fvcked up.
1-32-20 I think he must create pressure here but their full line didnt make it and if he will make a pressure it would have ended with a pass into the opened zone and the Canadians would have scored.
1-37-15 skating that helps to make a safe play
1-38-12 puck racing, puck protection and neutralization. awesome moment against two canadian players.
1-41-20 makin play to safe the puck in offensive zone
1-41-35 - create offense.
1-41-59 - he is still on the ice, he broke the stick and solve the problem by his tools he have
1-42-20 - legs is an option too
1-42-25 - he returned with the stick and neutralize canadian offense. sweden didnt work without him. he is the батя here.
1-43-54 - body work and celan the slot
1-46-53 - Edvinsson against THREE canadian player
1-47-52 - clean the slot. and right after swdish goalie lose the puck after viewable shot.
1-55-52 7th goal of canada. What he actually could do here? And what did olsson do? He was been baaad all game long.
1-59-18 - board battle
1-59-54 - pokechecking, neutralize canadian offense
2-00-12 - 2-00-23 gap control, body work
This was a freakin 1-8 against Canada. And Edvinsson waas lookin like a best player even in disaster game for defense. Everywhere he could make something to save - he did. Only one of his moves was ended with dangerous chance. In the game where canada create 56 shots! And he create some offense.
Lysell over Edvinsson. My God. Lysell was on the ice every time in this game. I could agree that the 4th number is too high for Edvinsson, despite his obvious talent and good defensive play, which significantly distinguishes him from his peers. But 18? Even in the two games with Canada Edvinsson made mistakes, but the whole team did not work. And they, like the U-20 team, looked weak. But when he played against Guenther personally, Edvinsson worked well against Guenther and looked head and shoulders better than him, both physically and in the game against him. Canada managed 20 goals in those two games and Guenther didnt score. Edvinsson worked well against anyone and didnt lose in battles.
Even after this disaster game for sweden you can easily see why you are takin Edvinsson in top-5 over Guenther, over Lysell, over Hughes, who couldn't even come close to being able to endure such pressure.
The story about his lack of offense is a lie. He was pretty productive year before. Yes, he wasnt this year when he play against men. j-20 problems? ok, he is ppg allsvenskan best u-18 defenseman in the past 5 years. second best in ten years. So what?
Right in this game we can see great flashes of his offensive potential. We couldnt see how Hughes can play in this swedish roster against canada. He didnt play with usa against canada or russia. It would be hallerious to see how he could play against wright, bedard, mitchkov. Hughes and Edvinsson are nowhere close.
This is a serious mistake, Steven. And in your delusion, you are deluding other people. Edvinsson is what he actully is. He is sweden defenseman with good skating. But with great defensive abulity, bodywork and understanding the gap. He isn`t Broberg. He is "why we didnt draft him? Because he didnt produce in adult leagues in covid year when he was 17 yo guy?" guy. Like Power, he is close to have a floor to be top-4 guy, and ceiling to be best defenseman of the team. Hughes has a floor to be 3rd pairing pp specialist and ceiling to be 1st pair pp specialist, who will not play in hard minutes against top-players. If you want to draft #4 you must draft the player with better ceiling and better floor.
Thanks for this! We need you on these boards all year long, @Guadana ! I actually like it when we disagree on a player, because it allows all the people reading our threads a variety of opinions on the same player. And your video breakdowns are -- even to me -- far more useful than my constant overuse of verbal description and analogy.
Your argument here is compelling, and I get why you like Edvinsson. I agree he is much better than Broberg, and I've said this a lot. I think he is a very good prospect, and I've said this a lot, as well.
I will also say that "in your delusion, you are deluding other people" is the best line I've read on this board maybe ever. There are dozens of posters here who grew up in America speaking English and sound like morons when they try to refute me, and here you are sounding like Vladimir Nabokov. I think you win the argument on the basis of this alone.
My opinion on Edvinsson remains however. I feel his upside is an excellent, mobile defensive defenseman who plays with high physicality and compete level while being a huge asset in transition. Though I can easily see him being a high-end 3/4 defenseman like perhaps a faster Hampus Lindholm, I cannot see him being a top-pairing, all-situations guy. I see that ability in Clarke and Power. I'm unsure with Hughes and Lambos, to be honest, but I ranked them higher because I feel Hughes is very young and has the most room to grow, while Lambos I feel offers similar defensive ability to Edvinsson with more offensive upside.
I think it will be fun to re-visit this is 5 years. Hopefully you will be right, and Edvinsson will be a top-pairing stud somewhere and playing shut-down D and scoring 35-45 points per year.
Guadana
Registered User
In any case, I hope you understand that I'm exaggerating for the sake of dramatic effect.
If we will not draft him, I "hope" Edvinsson will not "be a top-pairing stud somewhere and playing shut-down D and scoring 35-45 points per year" for some reason) I dont like idea to draft Hughes, like I wasnt a fan of drafting Holtz, but in situation, like with Holtz, when we draft him, he will be my favorite defenseman from this draft. I`m a devils fan from the beggining.
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Guadana
Registered User
As opponent in a duel, it's nice to see you being carried on a shield, but still hold your banner in your hand. This is very touching.
Haha, I always understand, my friend. I think you're terrific at prospect evaluation, and your opinion should be taken just as seriously by all of our readers as mine. As a matter of fact, @thethinglonger feels as pro-Edvinsson as you do, and the HFBoards Devils Draft readers should take note of that -- it's two against one and this is very significant. But again, in this case I stress that I am not "anti-Edvinsson" -- I think he will be a very good NHL-er, I just feel he's been over-ranked in many top 5 lists.
Anaheim4ever
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- Jun 15, 2017
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Yeah its looking like Eklund is gonna go top 3 so that means Hughes/Guenther/Clarke/Edvinsson/McTavish will be there for the Devils.
Our board has gone from Team Hughes to now Team Eklund with McTavish 2nd place.
Both Eklund and Hughes might even be there for the Devils if Anaheim picks McTavish somehow.
I feel the only way Eklund goes top 3 is if Buffalo takes him at #1 overall, which is possible but cannot yet be considered a legitimate likelihood.
Seattle is more likely to start their franchise with a center or defenseman, in my opinion. And Anaheim taking Eklund is very unlikely -- they draft with size in mind more than any team in the NHL, save for perhaps Ottawa.
I'm going to say the top 3 remains Power & Beniers, with that third player still being a mystery. But it's a strong possibility that the Devils will have all of this list available save for one of: Clarke, Eklund, Hughes, McTavish, Guenther.
the devils have no high end goalie prospect in the pipeline. the last time they invest a pick in one of the first three rounds into the position, they got blackwood. there is no pool behind him. rhd is a wasteland as well. the best u24 pool has some serious holes.
Anaheim4ever
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- Jun 15, 2017
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I expect Anaheim picks Big Swede Edvinsson because i expect to be disappointed with the pick, if it is a foward like Eklund i'll be pleasantly surpised.
Its true about size but we've also never been in too many positions to draft in the top 3 where the best player may be short.
Our GM is under contract for 1 more season, the assistant GM likely replaces him who has been the scouting director for a while so maybe this 2021 pick is all him in the type of player he likes.
Martin Madden Jr being a Quebec guy, Bouchard probably is his coach for when Eakins gets canned after next season.
Nico Hughes
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- Jun 28, 2021
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Every prospect pool has holes
Ottawa, LA, and NY specifically have U24 pool problems off the top of my head (goaltending, centers, and centers respectively)
Emperoreddy
Show Me What You Got!
Get Eichel out of Buffalo and let deciding on Eklund or McTavish be Buffalo's problem.
- Dec 20, 2018
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(I’m about to make observations about Swedish amateur hockey as a non-Swede, anyone who knows more please jump in. I don’t want to be seen as Swede-plaining (badly) by Swedish posters.)The story about his lack of offense is a lie. He was pretty productive year before. Yes, he wasnt this year when he play against men. j-20 problems? ok, he is ppg allsvenskan best u-18 defenseman in the past 5 years. second best in ten years. So what?
Right in this game we can see great flashes of his offensive potential. We couldnt see how Hughes can play in this swedish roster against canada. He didnt play with usa against canada or russia. It would be hallerious to see how he could play against wright, bedard, mitchkov. Hughes and Edvinsson are nowhere close.
This is a serious mistake, Steven. And in your delusion, you are deluding other people. Edvinsson is what he actully is. He is sweden defenseman with good skating. But with great defensive abulity, bodywork and understanding the gap. He isn`t Broberg. He is "why we didnt draft him? Because he didnt produce in adult leagues in covid year when he was 17 yo guy?" guy. Like Power, he is close to have a floor to be top-4 guy, and ceiling to be best defenseman of the team. Hughes has a floor to be 3rd pairing pp specialist and ceiling to be 1st pair pp specialist, who will not play in hard minutes against top-players. If you want to draft #4 you must draft the player with better ceiling and better floor.
The thing about high-end Swedish prospects is that they don’t stay and dominate with their age groups, they get advanced to older leagues. Edvisson was a PPG in U18 at 16, but most real high end prospect are playing in the U18 when they are 15 years old. (Some are even popping up there at 14.) Soderstrom actually was PPG at in the U18 at 15, but while most are scoring at a lesser rate, at 16 years old they’re already starting to play in the U20 league. And then at 17 years old they’re getting into the SHL.
I’m talking about the top picks. I mentioned Broberg because while he did follow the usual path at the earlier ages (J18 at 15 and J20 at 16) he played in the HockeyAllvenskan instead of the SHL at 17, like Edvisson. And he wasn’t particularly productive in his 41 games that year in that league, like Edvisson.
These guys are all examples:
Helge Grans (2020 #35), Tobias Bjornfot (2019 #19), Victor Soderstrom (2019 #11), Adam Boqvist (2018 #7), Nils Lundqvist (2018 #28), Sandin (2018 #29), Erik Brannstrom (2017 #15), Timothy Liljegren (2017 #17), Adam Larsson (2011 #4), Jonas Brodin (2011 #10)
I’m not condemning Edvisson, this is just an observation. I would say these are the only more recent higher picks who weren’t advanced to higher leagues at earlier ages and/or showed more offense:
William Wallander (2020 #32) Filip Johansson (2018 #24), Jacob Larson (2015 #27), Gabriel Carlsson (2015 #29), Hampus Lindholm (2012 #6), Oscar Klefblom (2011 #19)
And Klefblom might not belong in that section, since he played 12 games in the Division One men’s league and 23 games in the Elitserien (SHL) as a 17 year old so he played at a higher level more, but, man, he just didn’t score much at all.
Lindholm is probably the most promising comparison, he was more advanced early as a teen but didn’t score that much, had an one ok season in AHL and then somehow has managed to average 31 points a season in the NHL. Lindholm is probably the best case scenario for Edvisson, I don’t see how he makes a bigger leap than Lindholm did in terms of pulling before unseen offensive production out of his ass after he comes to the NHL (though I would note Lindholm’s offense has likely been dampened by him being on a team that makes us look like the ‘86 Oilers in terms of goal scoring, so he should probably have even more points).
Edvisson also had his 2019-20 season cut short, maybe he was going to a lot more in the J20 and just didn’t get a chance. (I don’t know when he played in each league that season.) And I don’t know what happened with him on Frolunda in the SHL, maybe he got COVID and had after-effects.
I’m big on ambiguity and not big on making draft lists so I don’t make strict calls on every player. You can’t make claims about offensive production that’s just not there though and his stats this year are underwhelming. As a comparison, Liljegren’s draft year stats weren’t much better but he had mono and that’s why he dropped to 17th in 2017.
the devils were rebuilding. why did they need someone, who can step into the line-up? they could have signed average joe out of the ahl. drafting with short term goals is the wrong approach.
But I think it is fair to say we should look to address those holes. I'm very interested in Hughes at #4, but after that I think we need to add some rhd to the mix.
goonybird
Young boy expert
- Jul 9, 2015
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Guadana
Registered User
Problem with all of this guys is they aren`t competitive enough and don`t have enough skills and vision to play defense on higher level. Edvinssov has, and the devils need such a player above all else, and if they draft him(if Clark is taken away earlier), the organization will get the most important piece of the puzzle, no matter how many one-legged fans there will be after that.
as sti is too gentle to point out your error, i will do it for him.
power played in the ncaa. while technically this is not an adult league, there are young adults playing in it. he also played a big role in the iihf wc for the gold winning canadian team. the sample size is small (10g). but the level of competition is clearly better, than what edvinsson faced in shl (10g) and allsvenskan (14g).
clarke also played 26g in an adult league this past season in slovakia.
i don't see here an advantage edvinsson, sorry.
They took Nico Daws as an overager last year and he looks like he will play in Utica this year. We have no idea how good he is because he spent the pandemic as a backup in Germany.
Guadana
Registered User
Slovakia and league where Butcher was best defenseman. Yeah, no advantage, I agree.
no, I’m not. Especially in compare to Clarke and Hughes. There is nothing to worry about. Edvinsson is a prospect with better potential and I did enough work to explain why. With proof and specifics. I know that people now value other people's feelings above the facts, but this is not me.
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