Devils or Rangers: Who has the better future?

[Offseason Champs]

Are you seriously going to argue for Hischier over Makar or Pettersson, let alone Heiskanen? Hughes, I don’t think I said it’s decided, but it’s absolutely an open question at this point whether they picked the best player.

Considering that the consensus was Hischier or Patrick I think they chose correctly. Go off though.

 

[DialUp]

So the idea is to try and add in more tough guys? I don't get it at all. Yeah you want to be "tough" but you've still got to get a proper bottom 6 going. Rangers just confuse me with what they're doing. It doesn't feel natural that they're getting Reaves and Blais and Tinordi and etc while trying to be "competitive".

Blais and Goodrow play hockey. Reaves will play maybe 50% of the games, on the 4th line. Tinordi will play even less. The Knights have been very successful, putting themselves in a position to compete with Reaves playing. The Lightning won TWICE with Goodrow playing important minutes. Blais won a cup with the Blues. He played with ROR.

To be natural they should do what? What does naturally even mean?

 

[Riseonfire]

If you asked a year or two ago? Rangers

Now? Devils.

Truth? Who knows.

 

[Jerzey Devil]

Are you seriously going to argue for Hischier over Makar or Pettersson, let alone Heiskanen? Hughes, I don’t think I said it’s decided, but it’s absolutely an open question at this point whether they picked the best player.

What I’m saying is it doesn’t matter if those guys are better than Hischier (which they currently are). All that matters is Hischier’s ability to mesh with the team the Devils have built around him and win some championships.

There’s no telling if those guys you listed would even succeed on the Devils. They could have zero chemistry with the rest of the team. And if the Devils go on to win a cup or two with Hischier I couldn’t care less how much better they are statistically.

 

[Sempiternal]

Rangers, they looked really good for stretches and are able to score a lot of goals.

 

[LionsHeart]

I’m not a fan of some of Drurys moves, but I think the reaction is also overblown. The team is much more balanced now than they were last season.

They upgraded the coach, Kakko and Lafreniere are poised to take huge steps, they have really talented young players, and they still have that prospect pool. The center position is still an issue, but you could do a lot worse than Mika Zibanejad as your #1.

That being said, I think the Devils are going in the right direction. The Metro wouldn’t be the Metro if it wasn’t a total bloodbath, and I expect the two teams to battle it out in the future.

 

[Zacha37]

Considering that the consensus was Hischier or Patrick I think they chose correctly. Go off though.

right. i don’t think ANYONE had any of those guys over hischier in their rankings

 

[goonybird]

Has Hughes not been extremely disappointing for a 1OA? I don’t know how you are seriously arguing this. don’t think I suggested it’s proven that Hughes isn’t the best from the top tier of his draft, but his disappointing play so far makes it a question, even if he was less bad than others.

And how is that any consolation? The discussion is about the importance of taking advantage of advantages with a rebuild. Not getting a 1OA caliber player with the 1OA pick is a failure. It doesn’t matter if Hughes is slightly less bad than others. How many of the top tier even has a big NHL sample? I think 3 of the top 10 hasn’t debuted in the NHL. I wouldn’t be so confident about Hughes due to the failure of one or two others.

He's the top player from his draft class.

You said the Devils might have made a mistake drafting him despite all current data saying otherwise.

You've now just shifted the goalposts to compare him across draft classes he was not in.

 

[My3Sons]

Everything looks great while guys are prospects or on ELCs. Once guys start to get paid en masse it's a whole different game. Look at the shenanigans the Bolts had to go through to keep the core intact. It worked but it took some luck and some guts and they will likely start to cycle down as their depth erodes and they don't have high end prospects to replace it. Ultimately, the NHL being what it is, a team needs talent and cap space and luck to make it work. What happens in five years is an eternity in sports. If Drury manages the cap well the Rangers will be pretty good in the near term. That said, if they let Zib and other guys approaching UFA leave they won't likely get better with the odd extra second round pick. Let's see how Fox does with his deal and Shesterkin, etc. NJ will have to cross the contract bridge with Hughes and see if any of their prospects pan out. The Hughes contract may be a bit easier now that Luke is a NJ prospect.

Ultimately, neither team likely contends for a cup in the next couple of years. Maybe beyond that the NYR have a slight advantage but when the end result relies as much on management as the players and coaches who knows what will happen. That's true for both teams.

 

[Zarao71]

I do like the Devils offseason moves. However, they've been in rebuild since 2015. Maybe we should revisit this when they're not bottom 3 in the conference.

 

[HugeInTheShire]

Future looks bright for both teams, these kinds of threads are made just to make 2 rival teams fans fight.. it's quite silly

 

[Synergy27]

You’re using the speed at which both teams were able to build their team as some kind of advantage for the Rags. I’m pointing out how much easier it is for them to build a team than just about every other team in the league.

We’re arguing about which team will be better. The Rangers are better now and have an advantage enabling them to stay that way.

 

[Guttersniped]

Has Hughes not been extremely disappointing for a 1OA? I don’t know how you are seriously arguing this. don’t think I suggested it’s proven that Hughes isn’t the best from the top tier of his draft, but his disappointing play so far makes it a question, even if he was less bad than others.

And how is that any consolation? The discussion is about the importance of taking advantage of advantages with a rebuild. Not getting a 1OA caliber player with the 1OA pick is a failure. It doesn’t matter if Hughes is slightly less bad than others. How many of the top tier even has a big NHL sample? I think 3 of the top 10 hasn’t debuted in the NHL. I wouldn’t be so confident about Hughes due to the failure of one or two others.

Either the Devils pick Hughes or they pick a different player, you can’t say the pick was a mistake because you can’t point to another player and say he was better choice. None of this has anything to do with disappointment or consolidation, it’s about your weird claim that the Devils made the wrong pick.

1OA choices aren’t surprises, they are called consensus 1OAs for a reason. Lafreniere wasn’t in question and neither was Hughes. 2017 was little different as Patrick Nolan slipped but I’m focusing on your weird claim that Hughes was the “wrong pick” even though you don’t have a “right pick” alternative. “I dunno, let’s see who turns out to be the best player in draft and then I’ll tell you my brilliant can’t fail on 1OA pick” isn’t how drafting works.

 

[DialUp]

Future looks bright for both teams, these kinds of threads are made just to make 2 rival teams fans fight.. it's quite silly

Bingo. And really, these teams are going in the same direction, but are not on the same overall timeline. Rangers have Panarin, a Norris winner, and multiple veterans to go along with their kids and prospects. Devils will be young players + Hamilton after Subban is gone, which doesn't scream to me as "win soon or else we lose Panarin prime years."

 

[HugeInTheShire]

Bingo. And really, these teams are going in the same direction, but are not on the same overall timeline. Rangers have Panarin, a Norris winner, and multiple veterans to go along with their kids and prospects. Devils will be young players + Hamilton after Subban is gone, which doesn't scream to me as "win soon or else we lose Panarin prime years."

I think they are headed in the same direction just at different speeds, the Devils are building a deep prospect pool and hoping they pan out
Rangers are just combining their youth with veterans, but both are headed towards being a lot better than they currently are

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

He's the top player from his draft class.

You said the Devils might have made a mistake drafting him despite all current data saying otherwise.

You've now just shifted the goalposts to compare him across draft classes he was not in.

All current data? What data are you using? Is it that he has a higher point total or points per game than Kakko, Dach, and one or two others you may be counting (Cozens, Zegras, Byram). Thats not all measures, but if you are content with his disappointing start because some others have been less bad (in your opinion), I guess there's nothing here to discuss further on that. You clearly are too deeply entrenched in defending Hughes to rationally assess this.

Besides, I didn't shift the goalposts. You inserted yourself in this discussion, and don't seem to understand what was being discussed. I didn't say anywhere that its proven Hughes is the wrong pick and I didn't suggest a better pick. You are completely obfuscating the larger discussion to ask who has been better. Why does it matter if someone is better? The Devils don't gain success that way. If you get the first pick and you have to argue others were less bad, you've lost already.

 

[Osakahaus]

Blais and Goodrow play hockey. Reaves will play maybe 50% of the games, on the 4th line. Tinordi will play even less. The Knights have been very successful, putting themselves in a position to compete with Reaves playing. The Lightning won TWICE with Goodrow playing important minutes. Blais won a cup with the Blues. He played with ROR.

To be natural they should do what? What does naturally even mean?

Grow some cahones, thats what. be like men.

 

[Osakahaus]

Has Hughes not been extremely disappointing for a 1OA? I don’t know how you are seriously arguing this. don’t think I suggested it’s proven that Hughes isn’t the best from the top tier of his draft, but his disappointing play so far makes it a question, even if he was less bad than others.

And how is that any consolation? The discussion is about the importance of taking advantage of advantages with a rebuild. Not getting a 1OA caliber player with the 1OA pick is a failure. It doesn’t matter if Hughes is slightly less bad than others. How many of the top tier even has a big NHL sample? I think 3 of the top 10 hasn’t debuted in the NHL. I wouldn’t be so confident about Hughes due to the failure of one or two others.

You clearly do not watch Jack Hughes with the puck and what he does. I think he's an amazing player

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Either the Devils pick Hughes or they pick a different player, you can’t say the pick was a mistake because you can’t point to another player and say he was better choice. None of this has anything to do with disappointment or consolidation, it’s about your weird claim that the Devils made the wrong pick.

1OA choices aren’t surprises, they are called consensus 1OAs for a reason. Lafreniere wasn’t in question and neither was Hughes. 2017 was little different as Patrick Nolan slipped but I’m focusing on your weird claim that Hughes was the “wrong pick” even though you don’t have a “right pick” alternative. “I dunno, let’s see who turns out to be the best player in draft and then I’ll tell you my brilliant can’t fail on 1OA pick” isn’t how drafting works.

You don't get to pick the terms of a discussion you weren't part of. You are suggesting this because the initial terms were unfavorable. This new discussion you want is also a self-defeating argument for your viewpoint to begin with, but it doesn't seem like you are aware of that. The Devils aren't successful if Hughes is the most successful player from his draft. They are successful if he helps turn them into a contender and potentially helps win a Cup. I didn't suggest there was a better player than Hughes from the 2019 draft, and its irrelevant if there was. There is no consolation in other picks being disappointing or less bad than Hughes. It does not help the Devils succeed. They gained this big advantage by winning the first pick in 2019, and so far it's not been successful for them. Maybe it will be, but they didn't use the advantage in 2017 successfully, and 2019 isn't looking great so far either.

The discussion of if Hughes is the best player in 2019 is one I haven't even went into here because its irrelevant to the discussion that was being had, but I also find it pretty incredible how some fans are so convinced about this. And the so-called evidence is rather scant. He has slightly better counting stats than players who've gotten much worse situations, ice time, and PP usage. Thats not to even mention that he's competing against a pool of 2 or 3, at most, and part of that pool includes players who obviously weren't at 100% health this past season. I have no strong opinion on who has been the best 2019 draftee so far. I think there are arguments for many players, and I think you'd find those arguments made for many different players, if you made a poll. What I don't get is the brazen righteousness from some on this point. At best, he has a small advantage. In reality, they've all been pretty disappointing, and picking the best so far isn't clear cut because its a matter of who has been less bad.

 

[DialUp]

Grow some cahones, thats what. be like men.

LOL!

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

You clearly do not watch Jack Hughes with the puck and what he does. I think he's an amazing player

Thats great that you think he's an amazing player because you like his ability with the puck, but forwards, especially scoring forwards, are judged on the stat sheet. The stat sheet suggests he's a middling NHL player right now, and that he so far has been rather disappointing for a 1OA.

 

[Osakahaus]

Thats great that you think he's an amazing player because you like his ability with the puck, but forwards, especially scoring forwards, are judged on the stat sheet. The stat sheet suggests he's a middling NHL player right now, and that he so far has been rather disappointing for a 1OA.

Stat sheet isn't the best way to judge a player. I get that he's a scorer but Hughes is a deadly man, and when the devils do bring in more weapons, then I fear what he will do. That kid can easily make for a nasty centerman down the road akin to what Thornton once was. I say he breaks out this year

 

[JT Kreider]

Yes and those guys do their job. Islanders identity is forechecking and defense. Rangers identity is speed and skill. You're trying to butcher the entire teams identity all because of one event. Yeah you have the young kids and panarin and Z but they lack the idea of a roster.

The Caps identity the entirety of the OV era was speed and skill except for one year and I'm sure you can guess what year that was.

The Rangers have had an atrocious 4th line since we lost Moore Boyle and Dorsett.

Depth puts teams with high end skill over the top as champions.

Cough cough Rust Kuhnackl Wilson cough cough

 

[Lays]

I really don’t trust a team to win anything led by the Hughes brothers and Dougie Hamilton

 

[Osakahaus]

The Caps identity the entirety of the OV era was speed and skill except for one year and I'm sure you can guess what year that was.

The Rangers have had an atrocious 4th line since we lost Moore Boyle and Dorsett.

Depth puts teams with high end skill over the top as champions.

Cough cough Rust Kuhnackl Wilson cough cough

because you neglected it, but just because you're adding in Goodrow Blais and Reaves doesn't mean it becomes fixed 1-2-3. you need them to mesh in with the rangers play. If those three are slacking early in the year, then they're screwed.