Devils or Rangers: Who has the better future?

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Wait, are you saying they missed on a 20 year old center who has yet to play one normal ass season and a 23 year old center simply because they didn't get Makar or Pettersson?

That's a real hard take to defend, even in hindsight.

Yes, I am saying that. They absolutely could’ve taken Makar or Pettersson. There were rumors they were considering taking Makar and there were also quite a few who thought Pettersson was the best player in the draft. They got a good player, but they also chose wrong. Where would they be with Makar or Pettersson instead? They’d probably be better than they are now.

 

[BPD]

Yes, I am saying that. They absolutely could’ve taken Makar or Pettersson. There were rumors they were considering taking Makar and there were also quite a few who thought Pettersson was the best player in the draft. They got a good player, but they also chose wrong. Where would they be with Makar or Pettersson instead? They’d probably be better than they are now.

That's breathtaking hindsight considering that the 1st overall rarely ends up the clear consensus best player in the draft and that those two are literally the only players in the entire draft class who are outscoring Hischier on points/game.

It's a fine pick. I'm sure they'd be no more or less better off with Petterson's....7 additional points.

 

[goonybird]

That's breathtaking hindsight considering that the 1st overall rarely ends up the clear consensus best player in the draft and that those two are literally the only players in the entire draft class who are outscoring Hischier on points/game.

It's a fine pick. I'm sure they'd be no more or less better off with Petterson's....7 additional points.

Hischier also broke his leg in training, got COVID days after returning to the ice, then got hit in the face with a Subban slapshot all within like 2 or 3 months.

 

[Zacha37]

Yes, I am saying that. They absolutely could’ve taken Makar or Pettersson. There were rumors they were considering taking Makar and there were also quite a few who thought Pettersson was the best player in the draft. They got a good player, but they also chose wrong. Where would they be with Makar or Pettersson instead? They’d probably be better than they are now.

pettersson was seen as a reach on draft night. fans would’ve been calling for shero’s head that night if anyone else besides hischier/patrick was taken. you see plenty of drafts where players taken lower outperform 1oa, but that doesn’t mean they should’ve taken them at the time.

 

[Jerzey Devil]

Devils also missed on their 2017 1OA. It’s too early to say if they missed on 2019 1OA, but Hughes isn’t off to a great start. Devils got many advantages in their rebuild that teams would love to have, and they’ve squandered them so far.

How exactly did they miss on their picks? In 10-15 years if they haven’t won any cups we can revisit your hot take. It doesn’t matter if EP is having a better start than Nico. It doesn’t even matter if he winds up with better overall numbers. All that matters is that the guys the Devils drafted come together and win a cup or two.

 

[BPD]

How exactly did they miss on their picks? In 10-15 years if they haven’t won any cups we can revisit your hot take. It doesn’t matter if EP is having a better start than Nico. It doesn’t even matter if he winds up with better overall numbers. All that matters is that the guys the Devils drafted come together and win a cup or two.

You had me until that cup or two thing.

I'm all for being honest about these prospects but I have zero interest in a Devils cup

 

[Jerzey Devil]

Yes, I am saying that. They absolutely could’ve taken Makar or Pettersson. There were rumors they were considering taking Makar and there were also quite a few who thought Pettersson was the best player in the draft. They got a good player, but they also chose wrong. Where would they be with Makar or Pettersson instead? They’d probably be better than they are now.

There is no right or wrong because EP would probably not have the success he’s seeing if he was on the Devils. Nico could have been tearing it up somewhere else and you’d still be saying the Devils chose wrong.

How about just going with reality? The Devils were a bad team when both Nico and Jack were drafted. No rookie would have been successful in their place.

 

[Wierzbowski426]

Yes, I am saying that. They absolutely could’ve taken Makar or Pettersson. There were rumors they were considering taking Makar and there were also quite a few who thought Pettersson was the best player in the draft. They got a good player, but they also chose wrong. Where would they be with Makar or Pettersson instead? They’d probably be better than they are now.

You dont know what you are talking about.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

These are all wonderful excuses. Excuses don’t win you games though.

If the Devils don’t win a Cup or even become a contender, it’ll be hard to look past two 1OA picks. How could you not place the expectations on those picks? How many teams pick first twice in a three year span? Not many in league history. The Devils certainly have not lacked a break with their rebuild.

 

[kthx]

Devils imo. There's something going on with NYR and prospects.
NYR will do great though aswell, it's really close.

 

[Osakahaus]

Please tell me, how is Drury destroying the Rangers?

How many times I've seen during the past week these claims that Drury is destroying the rebuild or whatever, yet not a single explanation what that actually means. None of the young players in the roster have been traded. None of the prospects have been traded. The draft pick pool has not been depleted.

You can argue the return for Buchnevich was underwhelming, and the contract for Goodrow is too much, but there's nothing wrong with the moves themselves. 90% of the Rangers fans are pleased with what direction this team is being taken atm.

I'd be pleased too seeing my team struggle to find an identity to settle on because they're mindbroken by Wilson and Martin lol

 

[MtoD]

These are all wonderful excuses. Excuses don’t win you games though.

If the Devils don’t win a Cup or even become a contender, it’ll be hard to look past two 1OA picks. How could you not place the expectations on those picks? How many teams pick first twice in a three year span? Not many in league history. The Devils certainly have not lacked a break with their rebuild.

I mean, the Rangers had a pretty comparable break with their rebuild (some would argue an even more significant break based on relative draft year strengths).. so I'm not sure how this is relevant to the conversation that you initially replied to about how the Rangers have had distinct advantages over the Devils in their rebuild.

I don't think its arguable that the Rangers haven't had distinct advantages in their rebuild that few other teams (including the Devils) are fortunate to have. Some of these are fully team driven and they should be credited for it (i.e. pulling the trigger on a rebuild early enough so you have assets to sell and jumpstart the rebuild).. and others less-so (i.e. lottery wins). I'd throw Panarin and Fox somewhere in the middle of those two categories.. certainly a distinct NY advantage but the team also deserves some credit for getting it done.

End of the day, it also really doesn't matter who has the best rebuild blueprint or who does it fastest or whatever. I imagine most Rangers fans don't want to hang up a banner at MSG that says "Fastest Rebuild Champs".. it's really just not the metric rebuilds are judged by. I also don't think Rangers fans care if the only reason they win Cups down the line is because players force themselves to NY. Nor do Devils (or Edmonton, etc.) fans care if their only reason was because of lottery wins.

 

[Jerzey Devil]

These are all wonderful excuses. Excuses don’t win you games though.

If the Devils don’t win a Cup or even become a contender, it’ll be hard to look past two 1OA picks. How could you not place the expectations on those picks? How many teams pick first twice in a three year span? Not many in league history. The Devils certainly have not lacked a break with their rebuild.

That’s my point though. If they never become contenders or win a cup we can definitely look back and say they might have made a huge mistake. You’re the one acting like it’s already been decided that they were the wrong picks.

The rebuild is still ongoing. If anything they might finally be able to start taking the next steps this upcoming season. Hopefully by the time Luke is ready to come up we’re already a playoff team.

 

[goonybird]

These are all wonderful excuses. Excuses don’t win you games though.

If the Devils don’t win a Cup or even become a contender, it’ll be hard to look past two 1OA picks. How could you not place the expectations on those picks? How many teams pick first twice in a three year span? Not many in league history. The Devils certainly have not lacked a break with their rebuild.

You still haven't provided any evidence for Hughes being the wrong choice. Also implicit is that the Rangers made an even more egregious mistake.

I'm sure you'll have no excuses when you look up who amongst them had the highest scoring last season though.

 

[LOFIN]

I'd be pleased too seeing my team struggle to find an identity to settle on because they're mindbroken by Wilson and Martin lol

So how has the identity changed in your opinion? By upgrading our borderline NHL-level 4th line to an actual NHL-level 4th line, and promoting some of the prospects?

 

[Osakahaus]

So how has the identity changed in your opinion? By upgrading our borderline NHL-level 4th line to an actual NHL-level 4th line, and promoting some of the prospects?

Because you literally have overpaid a guy in Goodrow, Replaced Buchnevich with Blais, added in more sandpaper and thrown away the skill, added in a plug in reaves, and have the paydays for multiple players coming soon. Kakko better hope to break through as well, and the same for Lafreniere, because the rangers rebuild is looking mightly unfinished and unpolished

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I mean, the Rangers had a pretty comparable break with their rebuild (some would argue an even more significant break based on relative draft year strengths).. so I'm not sure how this is relevant to the conversation that you initially replied to about how the Rangers have had distinct advantages over the Devils in their rebuild.

I don't think its arguable that the Rangers haven't had distinct advantages in their rebuild that few other teams (including the Devils) are fortunate to have. Some of these are fully team driven and they should be credited for it (i.e. pulling the trigger on a rebuild early enough so you have assets to sell and jumpstart the rebuild).. and others less-so (i.e. lottery wins). I'd throw Panarin and Fox somewhere in the middle of those two categories.. certainly a distinct NY advantage but the team also deserves some credit for getting it done.

End of the day, it also really doesn't matter who has the best rebuild blueprint or who does it fastest or whatever. I imagine most Rangers fans don't want to hang up a banner at MSG that says "Fastest Rebuild Champs".. it's really just not the metric rebuilds are judged by. I also don't think Rangers fans care if the only reason they win Cups down the line is because players force themselves to NY. Nor do Devils (or Edmonton, etc.) fans care if their only reason was because of lottery wins.

I don’t think I said anywhere that the Rangers have had less advantages than the Devils. Both teams have had plenty of advantages. If their rebuilds fail, it’s hard to look past the advantages both teams have had. Most fanbases would love to start a rebuild with those advantages. What advantage does Ottawa or Columbus have with their rebuild? They’d love to have any of these advantages.

It’s weak to make excuses for getting a 1OA pick wrong. You had the pick of the players. Not being able to evaluate the best player out of a group of 7-8 is a failure. That applies for any team picking first. Devils, Rangers, anyone. When you end up picking the 4th or 5th best player in an 8 pick stretch, how could someone assert that doesn’t make a big difference? This applies to Hischier, and it might eventually apply to Hughes. Having first pick is an advantage that comes with big expectations that you’ll pick the best player in the top tier of the draft. I don’t know how someone could seriously argue that. And if we are arguing about the strength or lack thereof from a rebuild, that’s the first place you have to look, along with the types of advantages the Rangers got with Fox and Panarin.

 

[LOFIN]

Because you literally have overpaid a guy in Goodrow, Replaced Buchnevich with Blais, added in more sandpaper and thrown away the skill, added in a plug in reaves, and have the paydays for multiple players coming soon. Kakko better hope to break through as well, and the same for Lafreniere, because the rangers rebuild is looking mightly unfinished and unpolished

Goodrow is overpaid, I agree. Tell me something new about the free agency. You have guys like Clutterbuck and Komarov. Buchnevich is not replaced by Blais. Buchnevich is replaced by Kakko and Kravtsov, who were forced to play on the 3rd/4th line last season. Laf, I have zero worries about, he played great in the latter half of the season.

It really doesn't take that much effort to look what is actually going on. A guy like Sammy Blais is replacing Howden, who was literally the worst NHL player last season by all metrics. Buchnevich was going to be traded no matter what, it was obvious after Kreider signed that contract and we got Laf. I wish we could've kept Buch and traded Kreider but it is what it is.

 

[Osakahaus]

Goodrow is overpaid, I agree. Tell me something new about the free agency. You have guys like Clutterbuck and Komarov. Buchnevich is not replaced by Blais. Buchnevich is replaced by Kakko and Kravtsov, who were forced to play on the 3rd/4th line last season. Laf, I have zero worries about, he played great in the latter half of the season.

It really doesn't take that much effort to look what is actually going on. A guy like Sammy Blais is replacing Howden, who was literally the worst NHL player last season by all metrics. Buchnevich was going to be traded no matter what, it was obvious after Kreider signed that contract and we got Laf. I wish we could've kept Buch and traded Kreider but it is what it is.

Yes and those guys do their job. Islanders identity is forechecking and defense. Rangers identity is speed and skill. You're trying to butcher the entire teams identity all because of one event. Yeah you have the young kids and panarin and Z but they lack the idea of a roster.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

That’s my point though. If they never become contenders or win a cup we can definitely look back and say they might have made a huge mistake. You’re the one acting like it’s already been decided that they were the wrong picks.

The rebuild is still ongoing. If anything they might finally be able to start taking the next steps this upcoming season. Hopefully by the time Luke is ready to come up we’re already a playoff team.

Are you seriously going to argue for Hischier over Makar or Pettersson, let alone Heiskanen? Hughes, I don’t think I said it’s decided, but it’s absolutely an open question at this point whether they picked the best player.

 

[DialUp]

You're trying to butcher the entire teams identity all because of one event

This has been addressed so many times over: the Rangers "identity" was 9-1oth place NO PLAYOFFS for years. Screw that loser identity which does not work in the Metro OR the East as a whole. Changing the identity is the whole damned point.

 

[LOFIN]

Yes and those guys do their job. Islanders identity is forechecking and defense. Rangers identity is speed and skill. You're trying to butcher the entire teams identity all because of one event. Yeah you have the young kids and panarin and Z but they lack the idea of a roster.

What is the identity of Tampa Bay? I think they had a pretty decent mix of top end skill, and also grittiness. It's a copycat league. And the "just skill" clearly wasn't working with Rangers. Teams like Toronto have also switched direction a bit.

Yes, Buchnevich was traded. But he wasn't traded because they wanted to replace his skill by a guy like Reaves. Buch is replaced by skill in Kravtsov and Kakko. Other parts of the roster, skill hasn't been swapped for grittiness. More like softness and poor skill has been swapped for grittiness.

This is why all this nonsense of "Drury ruining the rebuild" leaves me quite baffled. The skill is there, the prospects are there. Literally only the bottom end of the roster has been changed for a more suitable one. And if you want to argue that guys like Reaves, Goodrow and Blais are worse than Howden, Di Giuseppe and Blackwell... Well, just look at the playoffs this spring.

 

[Osakahaus]

This has been addressed so many times over: the Rangers "identity" was 9-1oth place NO PLAYOFFS for years. Screw that loser identity which does not work in the Metro OR the East as a whole. Changing the identity is the whole damned point.

So the idea is to try and add in more tough guys? I don't get it at all. Yeah you want to be "tough" but you've still got to get a proper bottom 6 going. Rangers just confuse me with what they're doing. It doesn't feel natural that they're getting Reaves and Blais and Tinordi and etc while trying to be "competitive".

 

[Osakahaus]

What is the identity of Tampa Bay? I think they had a pretty decent mix of top end skill, and also grittiness. It's a copycat league. And the "just skill" clearly wasn't working with Rangers. Teams like Toronto have also switched direction a bit.

Yes, Buchnevich was traded. But he wasn't traded because they wanted to replace his skill by a guy like Reaves. Buch is replaced by skill in Kravtsov and Kakko. Other parts of the roster, skill hasn't been swapped for grittiness. More like softness and poor skill has been swapped for grittiness.

This is why all this nonsense of "Drury ruining the rebuild" leaves me quite baffled. The skill is there, the prospects are there. Literally only the bottom end of the roster has been changed for a more suitable one. And if you want to argue that guys like Reaves, Goodrow and Blais are worse than Howden, Di Giuseppe and Blackwell... Well, just look at the playoffs this spring.

Is that the solution to anything. If you wanna be better, you gotta get to that plateau mentally. The leafs and rangers are both mentally weak. They get eaten alive by the media and expectations. I don't think that trying to emulate tampa will help, because we all know how well cheap copies of teams always do the next season. No matter what, Drury can just implode your team in a few moments if some big name free agent is there, and I await that to happen. You can say that every player is the next lidstrom gretzky and hasek but they will all fizzle out. Drury is drafting worse than Gorton imo, and I expect worse trades from Drury as well. Prove it that the rangers are willing to make a playoff spot next season, because I don't see it

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

You still haven't provided any evidence for Hughes being the wrong choice. Also implicit is that the Rangers made an even more egregious mistake.

I'm sure you'll have no excuses when you look up who amongst them had the highest scoring last season though.

Has Hughes not been extremely disappointing for a 1OA? I don’t know how you are seriously arguing this. don’t think I suggested it’s proven that Hughes isn’t the best from the top tier of his draft, but his disappointing play so far makes it a question, even if he was less bad than others.

And how is that any consolation? The discussion is about the importance of taking advantage of advantages with a rebuild. Not getting a 1OA caliber player with the 1OA pick is a failure. It doesn’t matter if Hughes is slightly less bad than others. How many of the top tier even has a big NHL sample? I think 3 of the top 10 hasn’t debuted in the NHL. I wouldn’t be so confident about Hughes due to the failure of one or two others.